This is an excellent piece by Gordon Lafer. And I think it perfectly explains my ambivalence about the Occupy Movement. Mr. Lafer, who spent last year working as a senior staffer on the House Labor Committee, sees things about exactly how I see things. The OWS protests are a direct result of the inability of Washington DC to tackle our biggest problems, but also a sign of exasperation on the left about our ability to ever succeed legislatively. Let’s take a look at two parts of Mr. Lafer’s argument.
The protests are also in large part a response to the disappointments of the Obama administration. Indeed, almost every policy demand that OWS might possibly voice has already been proposed, debated and defeated—at a time when Democrats controlled all branches of government. Members of Congress considered but declined to enact proposals to impose a tax on Wall Street transactions; to limit executive compensation; to fund a mass WPA-style jobs program; to allow bankruptcy judges to mark underwater mortgages to market; to make it easier for Americans to form unions and bargain for better wages; to eliminate tax benefits for companies that transfer our jobs overseas; and to forswear any more NAFTA-style trade treaties. The OWS refusal to articulate policy demands reflects the conviction that any remedies that fit the scale of the problem are impossible to pass—not only in the current Congress but in any Congress we can realistically imagine.
In some ways, it’s the White House that pushed people to turn outside the system. The administration has long admonished the left not to expect too much. Former press secretary Robert Gibbs famously declared that “the professional left” needed to understand that things like “Canadian healthcare” are simply “not reality.” The president repeatedly asks that we appreciate his modest achievements as the high-water mark of what can come from such a limited system. For the OWS protesters to be coaxed back into the legislative game, they’d have to believe that Obama is lying when he says this is the best we can expect. The problem is that the protesters believe the president is telling the truth.
Now, for at least two years I have been almost a prophet of the “this is the best we can expect’ school of thought. The value of this line of argument is that it allows people so see things more clearly and, therefore, to assign blame where blame truly belongs. There are reasons that we cannot get a Canadian-style health care system created in the United States. There are a lot of reasons, actually, all with differing levels of responsibility. But the president’s refusal to push for such a system is not one of them. Similarly, there are several reasons why we haven’t been able to close Gitmo, but the president’s lack of desire to close the prison is not one of those reasons. There are reasons why we were not able to pass a Cap & Trade bill through the Senate, but the blame for that has nothing to do with the administration’s desire for a Cap & Trade bill. People who argue that Obama gets exactly the outcomes he desires are wrong. Likewise, the president would like to do another massive stimulus bill but cannot get one placed on his desk to sign. You should know who to blame for that. You should also know why he doesn’t bother to ask for it.
The Republicans are the main problem. They’re the ones who are using every procedural trick in the book to block progress on carbon emissions and job production. But they’re not the only problem. After the Citizens United ruling legalized unlimited and unaccountable corporate funding of campaigns, the Democrats are more beholden to Big Business than ever before. Then you have a Senate where Oklahoma has the same power as California and New York, and where you need 60% of the body to agree before anything can happen. On top of that you have a conservative monopoly of political speech on the radio, and a host of corporate funded media outlets and think tanks churning out utter bullshit that pollutes the public discourse and skews it in a conservative direction.
The result is that we can’t pursue truly progressive solutions through the legislative process. Not in the last Congress, certainly not in this Congress, and not in any foreseeable Congress. That’s what I meant the other day when I said that Mitch McConnell’s plan of complete obstruction was designed to thwart change and kill hope. Yet, he has many allies in that effort.
The OWS protests are a recognition that the way forward in Washington is blocked. Now, Mr. Lafer argues that OWS must transform itself if it is going to create any real changes.
OWS is clearly inspired by Tahrir Square. Yet Egyptians succeeded in toppling the Mubarak government not because they occupied the square but because their occupation exerted direct pressure on the country’s most powerful business interests. As SUNY Stonybrook sociologist Michael Schwartz has detailed, by shutting down the tourist industry, disrupting construction projects whose financing had already been committed and initiating general strike actions that threatened to shut the Suez Canal, the occupiers of Tahrir threatened the interests of the economic elite—and that is what brought down the regime.
Clearly, something similar—nonviolent action that directly challenges the economic elite—is required here if we’re to succeed in making serious change. It’s daunting, but there is a precedent. Before there were civil rights laws, people broke the back of Jim Crow by picketing, boycotting, getting beaten and arrested by the tens of thousands, in direct action against the most powerful forces of their society…
…This is the nightmare scenario for those at the top, and the promise of a new day for the rest of us. This is something that could get out of hand. This is Shays’ Rebellion without the guns.
Here’s the rub. Things are bad in our country, but they could be much, much worse. Whatever else happens, the reelection of President Obama is desperately important. And, yet, here we have a movement that is sucking up a huge amount of energy on the left and which, to be effective, must create a “nightmare scenario…that could get out of hand” for our elites.
How could I not feel ambivalent under these circumstances?
In the history of our country, left-wing civil disobedience has a tendency to create a reactionary backlash. What we’re banking on here is that the country will react to this unrest like they did in the 1930’s and not how they did in the 1960’s and 1970’s. But with the media dominance of the right and the lack of any meaningful campaign finance laws, is that really a safe bet?
It also concerns me that all this unrest is taking place in areas of the country that vote Democratic. Most of the country is already suspicious and afraid of what goes on in Oakland and Atlanta and Philadelphia and New York and DC. Yes, that is where our financial elites have their corporate headquarters, but it’s not where we’re getting the most resistance from members of Congress. How much pressure is this putting on suburban politicians?
I don’t have any easy answers. The one thing I know for certain is that we’re at risk of seeing the Republicans win back the White House, hold the House, and take over the Senate. And, if that happens, all the craziness we’ve been witnessing from Republicans will be weaponized. If that happens, we won’t recognize our country, and we’ll probably never recover.
And, yet, here we have a movement that is sucking up a huge amount of energy on the left
I don’t think this is the right way to think about “energy on the left,” as some kind of finite resource that gets spent when it is used, leaving less available for other efforts.
I think “energy on the left” is more like a muscle, that gets bigger and stronger with use.
The major effects of OWS on our politics to date has been to draw attention to a set of problems that require solutions from the left, and to cause national Republicans to rush to the defense of Wall Street. This will enhance, not erode, activism for Obama and for liberal Democrats during the election campaign.
Exactly.
When thinking of the OWS movement, I always return to one line from V’s speech in V for Vendetta:
I think that a huge percentage of the country feels this way, but until now it has been considered traitorous or unpatriotic to put a voice to this sentiment. That is no longer the case, and what a giant shift in perception that is.
That latter event is more likely to happen if there is business as usual.
In fact, the Occupy Wall Street movement is gaining strength in some distinctively Republican areas.
But it is not the fortunes of Democrats and Republicans that matter to this movement, which far and away no longer exclusive on the left. What matters is having an extended national discussion of what ails America and what needs to be done about it. It is instructive that now Republican public officials are trying to suppress that conversation from happening. Because it must happen face-to-face in some structured form in order to avoid all the circular discussion based on media-driven narratives.
Denial of public space is denial of that neutral place for face-to-face conversations and protest that cannot be taken away because of the content of what is being said there.
In fact, the Occupy Wall Street movement is gaining strength in some distinctively Republican areas.
You mean that we don’t need Blue Dog Democrats, at least on economic issues? Say it ain’t so!!!!!!!
Not Democrat-Republican, not left-right, but 99%-1%.
It is not clear how it will transform red-state areas, but in most of those there are about 10% or so Ron Paul folks and a couple of pre-2008 Tea Party folks in the general assemblies — which gives them more of a libertarian cast and adds to opposition to the Fed.
Your frame and question are sort of irrelevant to what is happening in places like Columbia SC, Pensacola, Orlando, Greensboro NC, Johnson City TN…to name just a few.
Focusing on the inability to get new ‘progressive’ legislation and how the POTUS is actually a weak position is fine and dandy, but it completely ignores why OWS actually exists.
The financial game is rigged. Fraud was committed. OWS would not exist if the Obama Justice department had thrown people in jail. If people felt that (at the minimum) liars and cheaters would be prosecuted WITH EXISTING LAW (no new legislation required) they would not be out in the street.
Not many people like a cheat. Particularly a cheat that then brags about how he eats his own kills. And there is not much difference between those that cheat and those that turn a blind eye to the cheat.
Sorry to tell you this Boo, but Obama seems to prefer consorting with the cheats over the victims.
THAT is his real problem. Not that he is bound by a system that restricts his movement. But that he prefers crooks out where they can give him money instead of in jail where they belong.
nalbar
I’m not so sure this is 100% correct. It’s part of it, sure, but there’s another part that Obama himself stated in an indirect way:
“Do what we want within this framework, or we blow the economy up. Make your choice.”
As I noted in my comment below, people can be incredibly bad at understanding what their actual choices are.
So fine, you want to say Obama is part of the problem? What is your proposed solution to the part of the problem that is Barack Obama? Your choices are:
A. Mitt Romney
B. Herman Cain
C. Rick Perry
D. Newt Gingrich
E. Rick Santorum
F. Michele Bachmann
G. Jon Hunstman
H. Ron Paul
So which of those people will be a vast improvement over Barack Obama? And how about the Republican Congress we would probably have if one of them was elected?
Do you think there’s even a slightly, marginally, infinitesimally better chance for real change from a Congress with a large Democratic majority than one dominated by Republicans?
I’m just saying, go out and protest, change the conversation, do your thing. But please understand that you’re shooting yourself in the face if you wind up helping get Republicans elected.
Look at the map. And consider the media environment that business as usual will create.
Bottom line of both of those. Unless the public conversation changes dramatically and cuts out the Wall Street Media and shuts off the carpet bombing of TV ads, more Republicans are going to get elected anyway.
Business as usual winds up helping get Republicans elected. That is the impact of the Citizens United case. The other impact is that the media will not help rein in the saturation carpet bombing of political ads because that’s their Christmas.
What a bunch of crap. I never said any of the republicans are a vast improvement over Obama.
Why bother, you are either not very smart, or are purposely misreading my post.
1. Caesar
To quote the quintessential 2nd banana, Ed McMahon — “You are correct, sir”” — at least in my humble opinion. As we used to grill the Nader voters with questions as to whether they really though Al Gore would have pursued the same policies as W, people who “regret” voting for Obama should be asked to justify this feeling based on “What would McCain/Palin do?”
Now, the choice is not even the “son of Cain” (as my Celtic roots advise is the literal meaning of the name of the senior Senator from AZ), but between Obama and “Cain” himself (he of the upside down “666” plan). Yes, we may have a President who has shot himself on the foot a few times, but isn’t that infinitely preferable to national leadership that has US in the crosshairs?
Sorry to tell you this Boo, but Obama seems to prefer consorting with the cheats over the victims.
Isn’t it interesting that there is absolutely nobody on Wall Street who feels this way, but there are so many voices of people who have absolutely nothing to do with Wall Street who keep assuring us that it’s true?
First draw your curves, then plot your data.
Neater lab reports, better grades, and you get to the bars first.
Isn’t it interesting that nobody has raised more wall street money than Obama. Kind of bunches a rather large hole in your post, doesn’t it?
nalbar
No, not really. Wall Street has long hedged its bets (heh) by making sure to donate at least something to both sides.
With the Republican primary still going, but the Democrats having a nominee, of course the President will have raised the most at this point. Get back to me a couple of months after Romney secures the nomination.
At which point, we’ll see exactly the same thing we saw in 2010.
Isn’t it funny that Wall Street is contributing much more to Romney’s campaign than to Obama’s?
http://immasmartypants.blogspot.com/2011/10/truth-about-obama-and-wall-street.html
Sorry. Narrative’s already out there. Too late.
Whether Wall Street is contributing more to Mittens is missing the bigger point. The President is still collecting boatloads of campaign cash from Wall Street.
No, he’s not. He’s taking in trickles of cash from Wall Street.
Once upon a time – 2008 – Obama was taking in boatloads of cash from Wall Street.
Then he got the Credit Card Holders Bill of Rights. Then he cut Wall Street out of the student loan program. Then he went the mattresses for Dodd-Frank.
And now they’re going against him by better than 10:1.
He took their money and he f*cked them. I love that.
First of all, the assertion that Obama has raised more money from Wall Street is no longer true if you are comparing with what Republican candidates have raised from Wall Street so far. Wall Street has backed off on contributions to Democrats and Obama since there was the slightest bit of seriousness in enforcement of the new financial industry regulations.
Second, to the extent that they support him at all, it is a bet on his winning. The more they support him, the more they think he is likely to win, not necessarily the more he adopts their platform. After he wins, they will not have the opportunity to call in their chips like they did after 2008. On the day after the 2012 election, President Obama becomes a lame duck as far as donations to him are concerned.
I don’t think this is an accurate reading. Yes, the largest and most militant protests (and thus also the most widely publicized crackdowns) have occurred in such cities. But encampments are going on in every medium-sized city and hundreds of smaller cities in every state, including all the red ones, and not all of the local encampments have a left-of-center focus.
I think this local component has been far more important than most people recognize. Depending on the poll, anywhere from 55-70% of the American public say they are sympathetic with the protests, and the fact that they’re happening even in towns of 15,000 both underscores and is partly responsible for the general public support. And when Congress is getting 9 percent approval ratings, you can be sure that both Democratic and Republican officeholders are hearing from a lot of people fed up with the whole system. For decades the gulf between the policy preferences of ordinary people and what we get from Washington (and, increasingly, state houses) has been widening. This is a natural result.
I share all of other concerns you list. For our system to change dramatically there must be pressure both inside and outside the system. Walking away from electoral politics is not an appealing option – unless you want much bigger encampments, and much harsher crackdowns, in 2013. We need both approaches, inside and out. But Obama has to give people a positive reason to not give up on him, a consistent message that he shares their goals. Fear of the other guy won’t be enough. It should be, especially considering the Republican field, but after 30 years of variations on that message, its power is greatly diminished.
Democrats in general and Obama in particular need to go on the offensive and stay there. After 30 years of general Democratic timidity, it will take more than six weeks or a few bus tours for people to believe it makes a difference whether they vote.
“But Obama has to give people a positive reason to not give up on him, a consistent message that he shares their goals.”
If anyone’s a fan of The Wire here they might remember the scene where Avon Barksdale and his crew are raided and arrested right before they were about to eliminate their main rivals. There’s a particular moment where Slim Charles, one of Avon’s hitters, realizes that they missed their shot.
I hope we haven’t missed our opportunity. I have a feeling Obama will try to play the Tea Party and OWS as the unacceptable extremes. I don’t think it’s an accident that the biggest crackdowns on OWS protesters have been in heavily Dem states.
Obama’s already got my vote.
How exactly is OWS an unacceptable extreme? What have they done that compares to showing up at political events with guns and threats to assassinate political rivals? In fact, what have they done to deserve any of the attacks in this thread.
Not a single thing.
It’s hippie punching. Then the people doing the punching do what they usually do, worry about all the divisiveness caused by the people they just punched.
nalbar
The beatings will stop when morale improves.
I don’t think it’s an accident that the biggest crackdowns on OWS protesters have been in heavily Dem states.
Last I checked, Colorado wasn’t a heavily Democratic state.
People seem to be incredibly bad at understanding what their actual choices are. To the extent that people in OWS have given up on Congress and the electoral process, they don’t seem to be able to articulate any other path to real change that might happen in this reality. (Of course, I’m not going to assume that everyone in the movement has given up on Congress, but there’s definitely been a certain amount of rhetoric to that effect.)
I mean, some people need to realize that “something else” isn’t good enough. Consider, for instance, the people who want a primary challenger for Obama despite their inability to name anyone who could win the Democratic nomination and then the general election and is also willing and able to run. (Unfortunately, FDR died in 1945.)
I am less ambivalent about OWS than I was at first, though. I share the fear that they could undermine the Democrats, but I’m not going to assume that they’re all unwilling or unable to see that the single biggest obstacle to real change right now is the Republican party.
If it’s the bullet or the ballot, and you’ve pre-cluded the ballot, then you’re in something of a tought corner from the get-go.
There may be a tertium quid out there, but history isn’t replete with examples.
Actually that’s wrong. The ballot wasn’t an option at all until recently and continues to be excluded for many people throughout the world. But protests are as old as history and most of them did not result in revolution. Even Roman emperors understood the need to keep the masses happy. Political authority stems from people accepting that you have a legitimate right to wield it.
Maybe you have noticed, but Congress is seriously broken. This is not a normal time. Normal politics are not working. Elections are not reflecting the opinions of the public. Congress is reflecting its own personal financial interest and little more. There is not evidence that concern for the little guy is more than campaign rhetoric.
The best thing that can happen to the American people right now is for the joint committee to remain deadlocked. The consequences of that will set the proper tone for next year’s election.
The best thing that can happen for the American people is for a large meteor to land on the Capitol with Congress in joint session.
They are. The problem is, you need/want a different public.
I do not think that conclusion bears out to be true. The public did not vote for an obstructionist Tea Party Congress, they in most cases voted for the protection of Medicare and against individual mandates in health care. And just against President Obama for whatever cockamamie reason occurred to them.
The debt ceiling showdown changed that. There is an across-the-board feeling that the folks who ran and the folks who are governing are like Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde.
And just against President Obama for whatever cockamamie reason occurred to them.
Because unemployment was/is still too damn high!!!
But in 2009-2010, unemployment was not what most motivated voters. Because of the media fog. Which was my point.
Since you and Booman have decided to engage in a bit of hippie-punching today, maybe you could at least give us a clue why you think OWS may be “undermining the Democrats”.
Maybe you’re afraid they’re working at odds to Max Baucus’s plan to cut $400 billion from Medicare and Medicaid?
I don’t see where I punched any hippies. I explained by concerns. That’s all.
The fact that you don’t recognize that as hippie-punching is amazing.
Liberals are speaking up for liberal views. Of course that’s happening in areas of the country that vote Democratic. Where else would it happen?
that makes zero sense to me. That’s like saying, “liberals are protesting Jim Crow in Oakland. Where else would they protest it?” Or, “Why are they in Selma? There’s no liberals there.”
It should be obvious that my concern is that the hundreds of conservative members of Congress who are thwarting a basic jobs package are far-removed from these protests and that civil unrest in the cities has a tendency to cause a political backlash in the suburbs. Kind of a straightforward set of concerns that has nothing to do with disparaging hippies.
1.) Many blacks lived in Selma
2.) Jim Crow was the law in Selma.
3.) Many liberals live in New York
4.) Wall Street is in New York.
5.) Conservative politicians opposed Obama’s job package long before OWS began.
5.) There is no backlash in the suburbs.
There is a backlash in the suburbs. There is just no place to protest it. At least not like you can in big cities.
Maybe you missed the entire part of my post where I discussed OWS transforming itself into the elite’s “worst nightmare” that might go out of control. I am not discussing OWS “as is.”
You have been punching hippies for weeks now. You just cannot see it.
nalbar
I don’t see it either.
It’s sort of a ‘with us or with the terrorists’ arguments.
BooMan hasn’t come out as a partisan of OWS, so therefore, he’s hippie-punching.
Oh, all right. Despite your snide attitude and your poor reading comprehension skills, I will attempt to spell it out for you.
In short, my view is that Occupy Wall Street could be a very positive thing if the less reflective members of the movement don’t fuck it all up. If you want to call that hippie-punching, go ahead. It’s certainly easier than thinking.
There are two problems with this framing. (1) Occupy Wall Street is a movement saying “Time Out”. Before we talk about elections let’s talk about some of the things that the 99% agree on. The primary topic is the corruption of politics that is rife throughout the federal, state, and local levels across the US. Now let’s educate ourselves about how all of that is playing out. Then talk about solutions. And yes, protest the institutions that have brought this corruption about–Wall Street, corporations, lobbyists, operatives like ALEC… (2) Folks are not going to be voting for Democrats or Republican.s; that branding is now irrelevant. What matters now is not branding but understanding and results. Not posturing but a willingness to listen to what people are saying. Those like Jean Quan who demand respect but do not listen, who insist on the perogatives of their power, will not be re-elected or respected. Those who get it, might. But only at the point when the movement turns to the tactics for implementing their vision. They aren’t there yet. Not enough people are involved in the conversation yet. And we have seen politicians use police power to discourage additional people from becoming involved in the conversation through disruption, arrest, and marginalization.
I don’t see many less reflective members, of those who are actually participating in the general assemblies and teach-ins. And I have watched lots of hours of the less exciting actions of general assemblies. What you see on the livestreams (minus the folks running them who have to fill the silences) is dramatically different from what has appeared in the media. Not just the Wall Street media, but the local media, the political blogs, and even normal lefty sources on the internet.
The likelihood is that the movement results either in the opening up of politics beyond the two parties or the irrelevances of parties altogether. This has to do with the very strong determination to create an authentic consensus and not to be co-opted by any parties or -isms. There is a curiosity about what the informed consensus (as opposed to the manufactured consensus) of the 99% actually is.
And the struggle against being co-opted is as strong with most folks in the Occupy Wall Street movement as the determination to remain nonviolent no matter what happens. So far that discipline has been striking compared to previous movements in the US. It draws more from the Civil Rights Movement than from the hippies.
I’m glad you said this. The Civil Rights Movement analogy seems right to me (or also perhaps the pre-Weathermen New Left).
Likewise, an asteroid could strike the Earth and ruin an otherwise beautiful day.
You’ve provided absolutely no reason to believe this nonsense, yet in response to Booman’s post, you wrote “I share the fear that they could undermine the Democrats”. This isn’t a problem with reading comprehension. The problem is that you both are apparently suspicious of scary New Yorkers.
The only reason that OWS will decide to take a position that “it doesn’t matter who gets elected” is if Democrats decide to ostracize them. For instance, if Obama takes ishmael’s advice and portrays them as an “unacceptable extreme”, well then they will rightly decide that he doesn’t represent them. I’m betting he won’t choose that route.
That wasn’t my advice. I simply meant I think Obama will try to present himself as the safe, stable choice rather than embrace OWS. I don’t actually think that OWS is extreme at all.
I don’t know that Obama will have success as a populist crusader. Too little too late maybe but I hope he makes the most of it.
http://www.eschatonblog.com/2011/10/centrists.html
If this is correct, why re-elect him over someone else?
If this is correct, the middle class is doomed.
I believe it is correct.
nalbar
I believe it’s conspiracy theory nonsense that attributes omniscience and omnipotence to Barack Obama that goes miles beyond that of any “11 Dimensional Chess” postulates.
I don’t know Atrios became so deluded, but this “Every single thing that’s happened in Washington is actually part of Obama’s secret scheme” stance he’s adopted puts him into the same category as the birthers in my book.
I remember when the theory that Obama was a Manchurian Candidate, feigning an ideology he didn’t believe in so he could implement a radically different vision was only promulgated by right-wing cranks. How things change.
Hippie-punching is term used by people who do nothing but attack others, but who want to make attacks on themselves appear disreputable.
In other words, a sorry dodge by people who can’t take a punch but love to throw them.
Hippie-punching is a perfectly valid and useful term. Not everybody uses it appropriately 100%of the time, though.
Fair enough.
Asinine. The history of our species is that everything is recoverable. Life goes on. Fucking Germany is now the (temporary) hero and savior of the European continent.
But even if you are the type to easily fall prey to bleakness and angst and despair, I don’t think you’re being truly genuine here. It be so much easier to just admit that you’re actually afraid of the protests somehow succeeding in popularly delegitimizing the entire system (not that they will, because they suck). Because you don’t think the system is bullshit. You deeply admire and respect the system’s head. He is all the legitimacy you need. And you worry that popular discontent (which doesn’t exist in any hugely organized fashion, and again, won’t. Because they suck) will reflect poorly on him, and compromise his effectiveness and prestige. That’s totally cool. No need to wank about it.
http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/10/28/occupy-wall-street-struggles-to-make-the-99-look-like-e
verybody/?hp
Why isn’t the movement broadly multicultural? Because for people of color, no matter what bankers do in New York or Brussels or D.C., the government has never been more legitimate. There’s always a hierarchy of priorities for every individual, and history never dies or goes away. Maybe things change in 2013. Or not. Who knows?
You believe fucking Germany is the savior of Europe right now?
Really?
Fucking Germany is destroying anybody in their path.
nalbar
“You should know who to blame for that.”
I do.
“You should also know why he doesn’t bother to ask for it.”
I don’t. I really, really don’t.
Because he’s not going to get it? That’s why he shouldn’t ask?
If he’d asked and asked and asked, you know what? He would’ve got exactly NOTHING from the Republicans. But he would’ve gotten all the passion from the people at OWS, who heard him making the ask, over and over again. He would’ve represented them. The 99%.
You are engaging in a logical fallacy here; the idea that we live in the best of all possible worlds. And your arguments in this post range from the extremely misguided (OWS is stealing all the energy from the left wing? What was it doing before that?), to the flat out insulting (most Americans are perfectly comfortable with New York and every other liberal bastion in the country, thank you).
But assuming that your hope is to get Obama and the Democrats re-elected next year, can you please explain to me what part of your ‘best we can expect’ argument is supposed to motivate anyone to get out to vote for them?
i’m not a motivational speaker. But, while we’re on the subject, I’d like to know how it motivates people to spend three years accusing the president of bad faith and constantly demanding that he do things that are beyond his power to do and then blasting him when he doesn’t do them?
If you understand the constraints he’s being working under and you understand the constraints any Democrat would be working under, you may want to give up and go protest in the streets. But at least you have a have a fair assessment of the president with which to judge him.
Now you’re erecting a straw man. I haven’t seen any evidence that members of OWS are accusing the president of bad faith and it certainly isn’t a theme of the protests. In fact, they don’t seem to be talking about him at all, which is his real problem. They don’t see him as a part of the solution. Your argument, that he’s well intentioned but powerless, simply reinforces that perception. Is it really possible that you don’t understand that?
When you tell the people of New York and Atlanta, DC, Philadelphia and Oakland that they should ‘tone it down’ because most of America is suspicious and afraid of them, you’re telling them that they shouldn’t have a voice. So why would they vote?
Democrats and particularly Barack Obama, need to engage that energy and make a case that electing more Democrats will help solve the problem. The people you’re ambivalent about are your natural allies. Convince them that the last 3 years is the ‘best we can expect’ and I’ll guarantee you that they won’t bother to show up at the polls. And if they aren’t motivated to vote, Obama will lose.
If you want to engage in a battle with the FDL crowd, have at it, but that has nothing to do with the protests.
this is why obstruction is so effective. If you point how effective it is, it can become even more effective. If you don’t point how effective it is, the left just blames itself.
I don’t follow your argument. Avoidance is as effective a motivator as attraction. Probably more so.
Avoidance of what? Booman is arguing that Congress and the president are incapable of solving the country’s economic problems. People can interpret that to mean that politics is completely broken (e.g. because they need 60 votes to get anything done in the Senate). If that’s true, we don’t need to vote for Democrats, we simply need to make sure that Mitch McConnell doesn’t get 59 Republican colleagues. After all, the 41+ Democrats will filibuster all Republican legislation, right? Plus, Republicans finally get all the blame.
Or maybe you’re arguing that the system is only broken for Democrats? Republicans will filibuster, but Democrats won’t. For the average voter, that’s a reason to vote Republican (or at least, not for the Democrat). Because I guarantee you, the day the Republicans win the presidency and both chambers, all talk of deficit cutting will be gone. They’ll open the floodgates to federal spending. We’ll start building roads, bridges, tanks, bombs, statues of Ronald Reagan, whatever and we’ll have added stimulus in the form of tax cuts for millionaires.
And the Democrats won’t filibuster jack shit. Even if they did, the republicans would get rid of it. And then the democrats would PUT IT BACK.
nalbar
I suspect that Occupy is not so much a direct reaction to disappointment with Obama, but a realization that our society is so fucked up that even Obama and a Dem congress can’t do anything about it. Occupy, or parts of it, recognize the same thing as the teabaggers and the apocalypse nuts: the end is near. Obama’s win raised hopes whose failure exposed the hopeless rot that defines the whole system, from the economy to politics to communication.
Things could indeed get much worse, but that may be inevitable without the kind of radical change that no current political entity has the capacity to even discuss, much less act on. We are not in intolerable pain yet, but we’re at the point where future pain (which is where torture gets its real power) becomes palpable.
As to Occupy’s effectiveness, when’s the last time in the past decade or three when you heard income inequality even mentioned in Big Media, much less discussed (however stupidly)?
That is exactly it. The notion that money (even before Citizens United) has so corrupted electoral politics that the public is reduced to being chained in the car going over the cliff.
Dave, good post.
I am in construction, ONLY on houses that cost millions. Over the last couple of years the vibe at work has changed. People are PISSED. Not necessarily at Obama (except the usual crazies). They know they got fucked, but more than that, they KNOW that the crooks that fucked them are walking the streets like good honest people.
I keep reminding the pissed people to stay pissed at the right people, that governments and the media are experts at transferring that anger towards the wrong targets. Towards mexicans, or hippies, or anybody except the ones that crashed everything.
So while they are not necessarily pissed at Obama, they know he bares some responsibility for those fuckers walking around. After all, it’s HIS justice department.It’s Obama that is actually obstructing states from investigating the crooks. It’s Obama that wants to give MERS immunity. Once the pissed people find that out, he’s done.
And it will be HIS fault, because he made those choices. He made choices that have NOTHING to do with dealing with congress. HE decided to side with corporate interests.
In some ways Obama is just a corporate piece of shit. Saying that the other pieces of shit stink more will only take him so far. In my entire life (first vote for POTUS was in early 70’s) it’s ALWAYS been a choice between two pieces of shit. I AM SICK OF IT!
nalbar
“It’s Obama that is actually obstructing states from investigating the crooks.”
Oddly enough, Bo Biden – one of the state AGs leading investigations into the meltdown – was on the Rachel Maddow show last night, talking about how the administration has been helpful.
But what does he know, right?
So the VP’s son goes on TV and states that they are helping.
Oh ya, I’m impressed.
Follow the links;
http://corporatejusticeblog.blogspot.com/2011/08/settling-with-big-banks.html
nalbar
Ah, so now the hero of the “Investigate Wall Street” crowd – the guy who is literally leading the charge, along with the AG of NY – suddenly gets dismissed as an irrelevant mouthpiece for the administration when he doesn’t tell you what you want to hear.
Could you possibly be any less reality-based?
If the Attorney General of Delaware is merely a tool of the administration, looking to back them up because his father is the Vice President, and he is very aggressively investigating the banksters, then what conclusion are we to draw about the administration’s stance towards those investigations?
Two posts that prove…… Nothing. I never said what you say I said, you have transferred your original post in a different direction so you can attack me for…..what I did not say.
Follow the links. But then they do not fit your belief system, so they can be dismissed.
nalbar
I didn’t think you’d be able to answer my points.
Since you didn’t follow, I’ll spell out exactly what my posts prove: that your argument contradicts itself. Bo Biden cannot be, at the same time, aggressively pursuing the banksters AND merely shilling for an administration that doesn’t want them investigated.
If I were you, I’d be walking back my slur against Biden, too.
At first I was confused about what OWS was trying to achieve. But it didn’t take long to see it occur. That’s right, it’s already occurred. They changed the narrative and and the axis on which we set the dividing line in political discussion and media coverage.
We were discussing everything on the horizontal axis (left/right/center) where we divided up the middle and working classes by ideology, “values,” religion, etc. Now we are starting to look at issues on the vertical (economic class) axis more and more. And it is setting in that most of us are in the same struggle. The majority is starting to realize that we have alot more in common in the important areas. You see in polling that support for the principles that OWS are protesting about is broad-based and people are coming together from left, center and even the right (to some degree) and the media and economic elite are taking notice.
This doesn’t dilute support for Obama or Democrats so long as they show whose side (top 1%/bottom 99%) they and their opponents are on in their campaigns. If they play their cards right and stay away from the usual left/right divisions, focusing on the economic top/bottom divisions, they may win over the “independents” and really clean up Washington.
I have a feeling that this movement will expand the voting base among the 99% because this movement is forcing the political narrative to important issues instead of the stupid wedge/fear/hate issues we usually are asked to cast our vote on. Other than those issues, we’re usually led to believe that all politicians (regardless of party) are exactly the same and that we just have to accept that. So, many just choose not to participate in the system.
This movement needs to continue and grow, bringing attention to what we have allowed our Ownership Class get away with. This will energize everyone who feels they’ve been screwed over (just about everyone.)
To Obama, not to us. I’ve had enough of, “Ha! Ha! We can fuck you over and insult you. We can screw the unions and Social Security and suck up to Wall Street and you can’t do anything about it because the Republicans are worse!”
I’m not voting for the lesser evil. I’m not voting for evil at all.
OWS is at heart is a 21st century CIVIL RIGHTS movement. I believe the intuition of the OWS folks is searching for an evolution of a new operating paradigm to emerge from the tents of the impromptu protest movement. As one who has lived through and participated in the Civil Rights struggle in addition to being a firsthand witness to the evolution of the original “Beat Generation”, I see many parallels between the so-called Beat Generation and its metamorphosed Counter Culture Movement also of the 1960’s. The Counter Culture movement likewise spread into other countries throughout Europe. The famous anti-war symbol was created in Britain and quickly became the globally recognized symbol of the Counter Culture movement. The movement’s high water mark was reached in 1969 at the world famous Woodstock Music Festival in New York.
If one takes a snapshot of the demands and goals of the Counter Culture movement they are essentially repeated in the goals and demands of those in the current OWS movement, which is yet to mark its first evolutionary transition. This is simply because the demands and goals of the Counter Culture movements have not been realized in the three elapsed generations.
All of these movements recognize that the only real power available to working class American people is centered within the people themselves. Likewise this is the only power that can be relied upon to affect REAL CHANGES in American society, a goal that Americans have been searching for since 1950.
Kivie Kaplan, the long term President of the NACCP had a saying that he never failed to mention during any of his speeches, and that saying was “Bucks are bullets in the battle for Civil Rights!” This saying had a duplicitous meaning well beyond simple solicitation for funds to support the NAACP. The alternate meaning was that people in the community, each holding modest sums have little power; but in the collective the power of all those small sums of money is the most significant power in the nation. Many other Civil Rights leaders of the era also urged people to concentrate on local reinvestment as a means to secure and direct the power of change in their communities and hence in the nation.
Once again some OWS spokespeople are calling for people to concentrate their wealth exclusively in local reinvestment (small banks, and credit unions, etc.) as the first step towards securing the power to effectuate REAL CHANGE in American society.
Unfortunately in the 1970’s many of the former members of the Counter Culture movement made themselves busy with the national “Disco” craze. Meanwhile the burning desire to create a new American society had long been forgotten and was forever lost in the heavy back beat of the Disco sound. I hope this latest incarnation of the American protest movement as manifested in the OWS group remains steadfast to its protest goals, because in my humble opinion I think that they will be the last incarnation of any large scale protest that will be tolerated on American soil, therefore failure this time around is not an option.
I found this really interesting
http://www.philly.com/philly/columnists/20111028_The_Pulse__Vanguard_founder_s_praise_of_protest.htm
l
It seems to me that any president, aside from Dem. or Rep. ideals, is going to see his job as maintaining the status quo. The fact that Obama has done that is very disappointing to his voters.
OWS has given voice to our frustration and restored the hope that Obama inspired years ago.
I admire their refusal to align with any political party or to make any specific demands. They have created a perfect cultural street theater that connects all Americans who struggle to live in a corporate/capitalist system. And it’s not just us, it’s the whole world that is tired of being ruled by the monied.
Sure – bad things can happen, but having witnessed a lot of civic horror, I am heartened at current events. OWS speaks to those who have played by the rules and lost – with mortgages, student loans, taxpaying, low-wage jobs, etc.
Working together we can take control of our government. This is our time, together we are finding a way for us all to share the planet as one race. That is my belief.
All the gang of those who rule us
Hope our quarrels never stop
Helping them to split and fool us
So they can remain on top.
“Solidarity song” by Bertolt Brecht
Words to live by…
“Ambivalence!!!???”
I got yer “ambivalence,” right here!!!
Time to fight, motherfuckers.
Not prevaricate.
Time to fight!!!
Bu NOOOOoooo…
We get “ambivalence” instead.
Even Romney is stronger than that shit!
Wake the fuck up.
AG
Are you posting from prison yet, Arthur?
Send me the PayPal link for your defense fund.
There are more ways than one to fight.
And I am in prison.
Prison America.
Where you livin’ at, Bubba?
AG
Why are you in prison?
Don’t answer, “Because I can’t figure out how to escape.”
Because that’s where the money is. (Attributed in another context to the bank robber Willie Sutton.)
That’s where the money wants us, for sure.
It is much easier and also much less expensive to create a prison of the mind for many millions than it is to incarcerate just a few million.
Much more practical, too. And that is exactly where we are at today in Omertica, O noble Roman.
Bet on it.
If Imperial Rome had possessed the propaganda machine that is in operation in the so-called “developed” countries today we’d still be speaking Latin.
Bet on it.
AG
You’ve written a lot of stupid and offensive thing, Arthur. I didn’t think my opinion of you could fall any lower.
But comparing yourself to tortured detainees and Gitmo is really a new low.
We are all in the same leaking boat, Joe. The ones in the lower cabins are feeling the water first, while the first class passengers continue to dance to the PermaGov orchestra’s lame tunes.
Titanic America, if we don’t turn the boat around damned soon.
Queen of the ocean?
King of the world?
Too big to fail?
Riiiiiight….
You do not see the truth of this?
Watch.
Dig it.
Or be dug.
Your choice.
With every compromise to the PermaGov that is made by DC’s professional compromisers, another shovelful of your own grave’s dirt is being moved. You think that Abu Ghraib is over just because
Obomb’emObama is our current preznit?Please.
Tell it to the drone-dead Afghanis and Pakistanis.
The differences between drone types and Abu Ghraib types?
Finality, distance and accountability.
Nothing more.
The day is fast coming when we shall all have to account for our opinions. The most threatening opinions…to the PermaGov? They will have to be argued with secret, stealthy murderers who neither listen nor see because the have no eyes or ears.
Hallowe’en a’comin”?
Wanna be really scary?
Dress as a drone.
I dare ya.
These drone images are the most frightening thing that I have ever seen.
Ever.
Worse than Dracula, worse than the Frankenstein monster, worse even than Henry Kissinger.
Nightmare stuff.
Like V2 rockets must have seemed to the Brits during 1942. No warning, no reason and no mercy. You’re there and then you’re not.
I’d actually take Abu Ghraib if I had a choice.
Wouldn’t you?
So save your jive middle class outrage for later.
You’re gonna be needing them.
Soon enough.
Watch.
AG
“You have accepted…things that your father…could never have imagined.”
“The forms are all there, all untouched, all reassuring, the houses, the shops, the jobs, the mealtimes, the visits, the concerts, the cinema, the holidays. But the spirit, which you never noticed because you made the lifelong mistake of identifying it with the forms, is changed. Now you live in a world of hate and fear, and the people who hate and fear do not even know it themselves, when everyone is transformed, no one is transformed…”
Prison, v.2
‘But the spirit…is changed…”
You are presently living in Omertica, a prison of the spirit.
And you do not even see it.
Why?
Because “…when everyone is transformed, no one is transformed…”
Because “…the spirit, which you never noticed because you made the lifelong mistake of identifying it with the forms, is changed.”
I am not “transformed,” Joe. Not in that way, I’m not.
Deal wid it.
You be bettah off.
AG
“Whatever else happens, the reelection of President Obama is desperately important.”
Very disappointing to read this lessor evilism nonsense on this site.
Given that this is largely a Democratic partisan blog, there should be no surprise at all. Go in expecting “lesser evilism” from the get go and one shall never be disappointed, and every once in a while pleasantly surprised.
Don’t be ridiculous.
The OWS movement is much more important than reelecting Obama.
It is at least as important as the anti-Vietnam War movement of the 1960s and early 70s and needs to have the same kind of staying power.
The movement did not end the Vietnam War but it did end the draft and the ability of the ruling class to assume mass support and cooperation for just any action they might want to undertake with no better reason offered to the knucklehead masses than “national security demands it.”
And those were very worthwhile victories, though they did not come in time to keep me out of the army in those days.
OWS needs to expand into something bigger and last maybe a decade to accomplish anything useful.
And for all that time it will eat away at the Democrats and the very idea of the legitimacy of the system, exactly as it should.
The end of the draft is exactly what enabled the rise of military contracting and mercenary forces to fight our wars while obfuscating the number of “troops” we have in any particular theatre. More money for corporations, less bang for the taxpayer buck, and when a President announces that we’re withdrawing all forces from a place like Iraq, we can’t know how true that even is.
It occurs to me that the knuckleheads to whom you refer are much more readily mollified without a draft than with it.
Since Reagan, electing Democrats has been largely a delaying action fought against the national and global march to the right.
OWS is the beginning of a counter-attack.
Both are important, but the latter is more important.