Breitbart logic is funny:
The individual mandate was never intended to be a tax, Congress never called it a tax, and it wasn’t a tax in Massachusetts, either. Fine–but now that Obama’s lawyers went to court and called it a tax, and Chief Justice John Roberts called it a tax (and spare us the non-distinction between “tax” and the “taxing power”) Obamacare is, undeniably, a massive tax on the middle class. Obama lied. It’s that simple.
The Solicitor General argued strenuously before the Court that the individual mandate was an exercise of the taxing authority of Congress. He did not argue that it was a tax. A tax’s purpose is to raise revenue. The mandate’s purpose is to incentivize people to buy insurance. Sorry that I couldn’t spare them the distinction.
As for calling it a massive tax on the middle class, it is in fact a modest penalty on deadbeats who have enough money to buy insurance but insist on freeloading, causing the rest of us to pay more in premiums.
As for Obama lying, all he said was that it wasn’t a tax increase because it didn’t tax anyone’s income. It just inflicts a fee on deadbeats.
It’s that simple.
Damn, Boo, Get a Life!!!
You’re expecting logic from Breitbart Zombies?
C’mon man, walk on the beach then go watch Bones 4×05 or Burn Notice 3×11.
ie: do something real … watch imaginary life on TV
I just had the thought that Game Of Thrones might be a lot closer to real life (at least the politics and murder part).
Bretbart mainframe debate style is to demand that one not think, just let him pour the drivel into the hole at the top of your head.
So if I choose not to buy insurance because of matter of choice, conscience or practicality … then I’m a deadbeat freeloader?
This is why liberalism is so frustrating sometimes. If someone doesn’t choose correctly, well, gosh darn it, we’ll make them choose correctly!
Yep, you’re a deadbeat freeloader, because all of us insurance-buying, premium-paying nondeadbeats are picking up part of the cost to save your sorry ass when your car gets T-boned at an intersection by a drunk driver and you’re hauled off to the emergency room for life-saving treatment whether or not you have insurance.
The GOP says they have the answer to that little puzzle……”LET ‘EM DIE!!!”
Wouldn’t the drunk driver’s auto insurer pick up the tab in that scenario?
We’ll soon find out how few so-called “freeloaders” there are out there. Citing that as the problem with US healthcare is akin to blaming poor/minority home buyers for the financial meltdown. As if health insurance isn’t a defective product, Pharma isn’t continuously dumping defective products on the public (GSK?), high profit medical procedure aren’t over-delivered, etc.
I feel like some people don’t know when I have my tongue in my cheek. that’s probably because the GOP forced us to give up on the idea of health care coverage. I’m mocking the GOP for killing coverage and forcing insurance on us and then defending the deadbeats and freeloaders as the “middle class.”
It’s a lazy argument yes, but one that apparently many Americans have been led to believe. They think we’re all being called freeloaders and should have our freedom of dying without care taken away from us.
I don’t have a great deal of experience in the matter, but I did get hit (and damn near killed) in late 2000 by a daytime DUI on my way to work one morning. Surgery required, about 2 months of PT, and some other things that they expense on an item-by-item basis like ER treatment and etc.
Whattaya know, turns out that a vehicle owner who goes around driving in an intoxicated state isn’t necessarily a very responsible person. She had an insurance policy statement in her glove compartment, but we found out almost immediately that she hadn’t been paying her premiums.
I suspect that a lot of DUI types and other dangerous drivers out there are similarly irresponsible with their liability insurance upkeep. I know a handful of other people with similar stories to mine, but I don’t know where the majority of incidents trends.
In my own case, by luck I happened to be working the only job I’ve had or since that had health insurance benefits, although the company’s first act was to deny coverage on every itemized expense, presumably to see what I would do about it. I was able to get them to pay for the heavy stuff, but not realizing how the items were detailed and charged separately (for instance, PT wasn’t an expense on its own, rather each individual visit to the therapist was a separate–denied–claim), had no idea I still had denied claims hanging over my head when I moved out of the US. I found out a couple of years later.
Anyway, the point is, don’t rely on other people’s insurance to cover accidents they’re at fault for. And if you own a vehicle more than about 5 years old, even if the liability claim is honored, you’re basically out of pocket on a new car anyway bc it won’t cover nearly enough to buy a replacement, which is another matter altogether…
As I said, health/medical insurance is a defective product. National health/medical care (care not insurance) would cost half as much in dollars and eliminate all the financial and emotional stress that individuals incur. The last thing victims of accidents or the irresponsibility of others, such as yourself, need is the burden of having to pay for the necessary medical care. Payment bloated by a for-profit medical care system and the non-productive insurance products used to support it. The nightmare of serious injuries and a long recovery process as you endured should never be compounded by others employed to collect an additional pound of flesh.
Emergency rooms are not free! They are one of the leading causes of bankruptcy. Hospitals don’t just shrug off the cost because you don’t have insurance. That is a lie! Instead, they pile on charges at the maximum rate and turn the accounts over to bill collectors that hound the patient for eternity. Why do you think the unemployed pay high premiums for COBRA coverage? Are they stupid? After all, they could be using the free emergency room. Try it. Next time you are sick, just go to the nearest emergency room and tell them you don’t have insurance. Just see what happens. Uninsured patients cost the system money because you can’t get blood from a turnip, not because emergency rooms are free. Anyone not buying insurance because they think emergency room care is free is heading for a very rude awakening. Most of the uninsured are uninsured because they either can’t afford insurance or they can’t get it at any price, not because they are freeloaders. The effect of naive freeloaders on the system is negligible. The estimates that I have seen range from 1% to 4% of the total health care cost.
You’re quite correct. Why I brought up the freeloader/drunk driver/ER thing was this statement from the person I was addressing:
“So if I choose not to buy insurance because of matter of choice, conscience or practicality”
That’s not someone who can’t afford insurance; that’s someone who can but chooses not to because in the short term it saves him/her money; and implicit in that choice is the expectation that in an emergency such as I posited, why, presto-magico! the emergency doors will swing open, treatment will be provided, and, well, something something something will take care of it all in the long term. Besides, bad things ain’t gonna happen to a good person, it’s only losers who bring misfortune upon themselves by their bad choices, right?
Selfish, foolish, shortsighted, with a side order of contempt for all of us dimwit liberals who actually take the social contract seriously instead of gaming it for fun and profit — that’s the vibe I was responding to.
IMHO, such a person deserves what happens to him. As the Christian founder said, “He that hath an ear, let him hear.”
BTW, I don’t believe that I’ve ever made this clear in my discussions on the mandate: It is entirely reasonable to demand that people purchase health insurance for their minor dependents. It’s like demanding that they provide food and shelter, but adults should be allowed to starve and freeze if they choose to do so. Note “choose” which implies they could eat or pay rent but they won’t. (Or is it “infers”? Is there an English teacher in the house?)
“Implies” is correct. “Infer” is what you do when you think you see an implied meaning in something.
This from an out-of-work English teacher.
Thank you very much! Good Luck on your job search.
“We” don’t demand that parents provide food, shelter, and health insurance for their minor children. That’s why medicaid, food stamps, school lunch programs, Section 8, etc. exist. Would be more cost effective to supply free family planning but that could interfere with a large number of public and private (for profit and non-profit) enterprises that need poor people to exist.
“we” as in “the Law”. Every day thousands of children are removed from their homes because parents don’t provide those things, preferring to drink up or snort up their available funds. Some of these parents are arrested for Endangering the Life of a Child.”
Big difference between those that choose to be parents without having the financial means to support them and those that abuse and neglect their children. Not all of the latter are deprived of food, clothing, and shelter.
First, the context.
The Republicans rejected universal health care because they don’t want deadbeat freeloaders to get health care without paying for it.
So, they invented the mandate as an alternative. Force people to buy insurance rather than giving them coverage. The insurance companies can live with that, and the worst deadbeats still won’t be covered. Awesome!!
Then a funny thing happened. Obama realized that the mandate actually was necessary if he wanted to cover people with pre-existing conditions, and he couldn’t pass a health care bill that the insurance industry hated. So, viola!! We getz mandate!!
Then the GOP calls it unconstitutional. Sweet.
Context is everything.
But, yeah, if you can’t afford health insurance, Obama’s gonna fix that for you. If you just want to freeload? You’re a deadbeat.
Is the penalty enforced either way? My last best understanding was that the IRS isn’t coming after “deadbeats” even if they can afford coverage on their own, and not even taking payments out of tax returns. That may have only been for people under a certain income line, come to think of it.
What I have read, and I have no idea if it is true, is that you only have to pay the penalty/tax if you file an income tax return and even then IRS is forbidden to force you to pay even by taking it out of your refund without the penalty. Doesn’t sound like a mandate that we absolutely need to have. I beleive it is just a wedge to force us to buy bone-crushingly expensive long term care insurance in the future to save Medicaid funds.
If you choose not to financially support a broken system of private insurance, if you have a medical condition that the AMA doesn’t understand (like gulf war syndrome), if you live in a community that self-insures its members (like the Amish), or if you a preference for medical treatments that the AMA doesn’t approve of (like Chinese herbal medicine), you still have to pay for the insurance under Obama’s plan.
Labeling anyone who can afford private insurance, but chooses not to pay for it, as a ‘deadbeat’ or ‘freeloader’ doesn’t help to advance your cause.
Assume we had single-payer: would idiots who use chinese herbal medicine be exempt from taxes?
Nobody’s exempt from taxes. You might ask though if a single-payer system would pay for Chinese herbal medicine treatments–in the US, that is. The single payer system in Taiwan pays for these things, and acupuncture too, I think.
Liberalism seems to becoming clearer to me — it’s whatever the Heritage Foundation or Federalist Society championed fifteen years ago.
Sure, it’s a tax.
Like the $200 fine you pay for speeding is a tax.
Like the $6 billion fine GlaxoSmithKline (or however you spell it) is going to pay is a tax.
Well, shoot.
Whatever floats Roberts’ boat, is what I say.
Southwest Harbor is awesome ! We’re not going to get there this year, but we’ve been there quite a few times. Did you get ice cream at Quietside Cafe yet? Or a giant blueberry muffin at Sawyer’s…
Oops, sorry folks, wrong thread…
that’s alright. nice to think about those things. How about a lobster roll in the meantime.
Ack! You guys are making me feel hungry!
Me too. I think we’ll be needing some ic cream for the kids while we get blueberry mat ini’s over at the Claremont Hotel this evening…
(CG, too lazy to sign in as herself because it’s vacation).
Inspiringly vacation-y not signing in as yourself!!! If you see a nice lobster roll, pls wave to it for me!