I really wanted to see Argo when it came out, and I can only say that about .00001% of the movies that Hollywood makes. It had all the elements of the type of movie that interests me. It is historical. It involves our intelligence agencies. In context, its about something still critically important that most Americans know little about. And it’s a nifty little story with an (out-of-context) happy ending. Yet, one crisis and illness after another colluded in the fall to prevent us from making it to the theater to see the film. As a result, I can’t really comment on a lot of Kevin’s Lee’s hostile review of the film.
What I can say, though, is that I totally understand where he is coming from when he complains that the film begins by explaining the CIA’s history in Iran and how it led directly to the Iranian Revolution in 1979 and the subsequent hostage crisis, only to turn immediately around and portray the Iranians as a hostile horde of bad guys and the CIA as an All-American All-Star team of heroes.
Still, I wonder if this worry is overwrought. Does it really turn the whole movie into bullshit, as Mr. Lee insists?
The 1953 CIA-sponsored coup that put the Shah back in power in Iran, and the subsequent build-up of SAVAK, the Shah’s brutal internal security force, are certainly black marks in our Cold War history. But it’s not a simple story where we can know that things would have turned out so much better without our meddling. By 1979, Iran had modernized to a remarkable degree, certainly by the standards of the region, and a lot of that was because of American investment. Without submitting to the Hitler-built-good-roads mentality, we can admit that there were many positive consequences for the Iranian people of both the Shah’s reign, and America’s role in sustaining it. One of the tragedies of the Iranian Revolution is that it was taken over by religious fanatics who jettisoned the good along with the bad as far as America’s influence was concerned. On the progressive side, I think there is a constant frustration that the American people are never given the proper context to understand why the Iranian government and (to a degree) the Iranian people are hostile to our country, and especially its foreign policy. The temptation is to overcompensate in the opposite direction, portraying the U.S. as the bad guy and the Iranians as the justifiably aggrieved party.
I understand the impulse, but it can suffer from the same flaws as the official narrative. Neither side has clean hands. Both sides have legitimate grievances. It sounds to me like the movie does present both ways of looking at things, although perhaps it makes the mistake of presenting two flawed views for balance instead of a view that is balanced throughout. How well it achieves all this is impossible for me to say, since I haven’t seen the movie.
What I do know is that the movie is a story about something good and effective that the government and the CIA did during a period in which all the American people saw was relentless failure. If that detracts or distracts from the overall catastrophe, it seems somewhat unavoidable. We can know that our foreign policy elites brought the revolution and hostage crisis on themselves without thinking for a moment that the hostages deserved to be held captive, or doubting for a moment that they should be rescued. We can simultaneously have disgust for the CIA’s record in Iran and be thankful that they could do something right.
The official narratives we tell ourselves (or are taught) are too often skewed in dangerous ways to cast the U.S. as blameless and continually virtuous. But the corrective to that is not create a mirror image that is reversed and just as distorted.
I’ve seen Argo twice and I really disagree that it portrays Iranians as “hostile horde of bad guys”. It shows the terrorists who held the embassy staff as bad guys, but many others are shown as victims of the US-backed Shah or the newly established government. Unlike many Hollywood movies, the Iranians weren’t seen as generic bad guys, but were much more fleshed out. The movie at no point excused the U.S.’s decisions or treated the CIA as blameless. It does focus on a small story of saving the lives of innocent Americans in Iran, but it doesn’t excuse U.S. or demonize Iran.
You really should not judge this movie until you see it. The reviewer is dead wrong in my opinion.
I really hope this movie wins best picture at the Oscars as it was the best movie I’ve seen this year by far. But, with Affleck not getting a best director nod, it is looking unlikely that it will win.
It was a great movie. I see where other reviewers had trouble with “Zero Dark Thirty” because of the moral ambiguity of the film, which from its premise would seem to be a bigger problem than that of “Argo”.
Life can be morally ambiguous. The hostages in “Argo” were not responsible for the coup in 1953, so in a way it was a morally unambiguous tale wrapped inside of something entirely different.
I guess one can base what they see in a film on whether or not they think they will be offended by the message.
The problem with Zero Dark Thirty is not the moral ambiguity it’s the inaccurate affirmation of torture as the means to the info that led to the capture. It’s not problematic, it’s destructive to the cause of human rights. Argo is a good movie. The airport sequence is the weakest and obviously movieicized/ embellished. vs. Kevin Lee – what about the scene in the bazaar?
I haven’t watched ZDT yet. I hope to this weekend and I’ll wait until after I see it before condemning it for being pro-torture. If it is anything like Bigelow’s Hurt Locker, I expect I’ll love it.
In terms of nuanced, also interesting in the trajectory of the decision to use fake movie. and Argo is worth it for the John Goodman character
Everybody’s a critic:
So what? That’s obviously what Mr. Lee thinks of me. Maybe Hollywood makes movies to entertain us, and Ben knows that is where the money is. At least they tried.
A young boy once told me that it wasn’t any fun to go to movies with a friend of mine because he always complained that it wasn’t historically accurate. We decided to just enjoy the different versions of a story since we weren’t there to see what happened.
There seems to be a lot of resentment toward Ben Affleck out there. What’s the point of saying that he didn’t get a degree?
Again I say so what?
He’s in good company: Speilberg, Quentin Tarantino(who didn’t bother with high school), Steve Jobs, and Bill Gates. Or his buddy Matt Damon who did spend four years at Harvard, learning enough about it to write “Good Will Hunting.”
I should have an opinion on “Argo” sometime late this year when it hits my local $3.50 movie theater. Same with all the other 2012 “must sees.” OTOH, I saw a lot of not so good movies last year, a few okay to worth seeing ones, and a couple of good ones. And somehow managed to avoid the ones that made most of the worst 2012 movie lists.
At the top of my 2012 list is Moonrise Kingdom that IMHO is a small gem. The worst was so bad I excised its name from my mind, but it did serve to make some pretty dreadful movies such as “John Carter,” “Seven Psychopaths,” and “Cloud Atlas” tolerable.
here. In fact I was pleasantly surprised that the movie started off with the background of what led up to the hostage crisis and didn’t sugarcoat the role the US, and in particular, the CIA played in it.
I thought Argo was great as a movie. It’s not a historical document, and the fact that many people will think of it that way is bothersome. It’s also rather jingoistic to my tastes in the ending and in the way it downplays the actual role of Canada and its ambassador (who were far more active and decisive in the rescue than the movie portrays).
shrugs It’s Hollywood, and a moderately big-budget picture with a big-name guy behind it. It needs to draw an audience and make money to justify that. (It did.) But the basic story it tells is a spy story as entertaining, along with 2011’s Tinker Tailor, as any told by Hollywood in a long while. (Bond is a superhero story with a spy theme, not a spy story). The fact that something very much like what’s depicted in Argo actually happened just adds weight to the story.
Meanwhile, Americans get a glimpse of a history most of us know little or nothing about beyond the jingoistic “yellow ribbon” memories of those of us old enough to have lived through it. Unlike Boo, I have nothing good to say about the Shah. Neither does the film, and it makes clear that he worked for us.
Real life is more complicated than one side = evil, the other side = pure goodness. This was the story of a handful of people caught up in much, much larger circumstances not of their making, and it tells that story while making perfectly clear that those larger circumstances were messy and sometimes ugly on all sides. That’s better history right there than most Hollywood movies will ever provide.
I have not seen Argo yet, but you have described perfectly how I feel about Homeland on Showtime. That’s one of the things that makes Homeland such a great show. I missed Argo in the theaters but it sounds like the perfect movie to break in my new (free) Blu-ray player when it comes out.
I don’t know that anyone wants to be known for saying nice things about the Shah. In particular, and somewhat like Assad, the brutality he used at the end in his failed effort to keep power was astonishing.
A few years ago, a lot of people were hopeful that Assad could be a moderating influence and a partner for peace. No one says that anymore.
But, I think it is fair to say that Iran underwent a very rapid period of modernization, both educationally and economically, and also militarily and culturally. By 1979 it had the best educated population in the region, the biggest middle class, the most Westernized and consumer-based culture. And even the mullahs and the long war were not able to reverse most of that momentum. In fact, they introduced democracy, which has waxed and waned over the years in terms of its “realness.” Of late, it has been a sham, but it wasn’t always that way.
So, if you go back in time and you rewind the tape with no coup and no Shah, it’s hard to know how Iran would sit today. But it isn’t clear that they would be better off. What would Soviet policy have been? How would their relationship with Iraq have been different? How much less investment would they have seen? Would they have built up a secularized and well-educated middle class? How educated would they be?
Another example is Attaturk in Turkey. What if Turkey hadn’t turned to the West and secularization? Would they be more like Syria today than the modern bustling nation that they are?
The Shah was a very bad man, but many of policies served Iran very well. If I compare him to Saudi Royal Family, he comes off looking like a much better servant of his people. Just compare size and education levels of their respective middle classes.
Sounds like Geov is a real spy movie fan.
What are your favorites?
I love Day of the Jackal.
The recent version of Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy was truly excellent and weirdly (to my mind) overlooked.
I may have to track it down. I’d been avoiding it out of fear that it wouldn’t measure up to the BBC miniseries.
It is excellent
Yes, Tinker Taylor is great. But then, I own just about every book John Le Carre’s ever written. I’m more a book than a movie fan. The current Olen Steinbauer “Tourist” series is very good (three books so far), and I understand it’s in Hollywood development – we’ll see what they do.
TV, MI-5 (“Spooks” in the UK) is very well done, and “Burn Notice” is great fun.
Most of the Le Carre adaptions into movies have been pretty good – TTSS, The Constant Gardener, and of course The Spy Who Came In From the Cold. Recently, there haven’t been many good ones. Red from a couple years ago was above average, plus watching Helen Mirren handling a submachine gun was awesome!
As entertainment there’s nothing wrong with the Bond films or things like the Mission Impossible or Bourne franchises. But I prefer my escapist fantasy to be at least somewhat physically plausible. Unless it’s science fiction or fantasy, in which case all bets are off…
Forgot to mention – like Joe, I love Day of the Jackal as well. I know there’s a bunch of older and foreign films I’m forgetting, too.
I really liked “A Perfect Spy.” That was probably the best character development of LaCarre’s books.
I loved the way his father could always track him down, no matter how deep his cover was.
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“The 1953 CIA-sponsored coup that put the Shah back in power in Iran, and the subsequent build-up of SAVAK, the Shah’s brutal internal security force, are certainly black marks in our Cold War history.”
A number of family members worked for Aramco when the company had engineering staff in The Hague. Later it became fully owned by Saudi Arabia. Many Dutch employees were part of the joint Netherlands-Palestine committee. In the past decades a number of events shaped the role of the Saudi King and the relationship with the outside world. For the Brits and Yanks who helped run Aramco, one event will always be remembered. It was a terror strike inside Saudi Arabia on an International School targeting the children of the foreign workers employed by Aramco. Ever since, domestic terror worsened and turned outward toward the leading western countries.
One remark I will always remember was made by a real American oil man, worked closely with Saudi colleagues for 25 years. He said with much regret: “If there comes a moment of trouble in Saudi Arabia I will have to fend for myself. I still don’t know if I could put my life in their hands. Saudi’s I consider a friend, I just don’t trust them completely.”
The US and their Atlantic partners have failed miserably in foreign policy in the period of the Cold War. The US politicians have a vision of 2 years max, the next election. The Israelis and the Arabs live in biblical terms and set their vision for at least the next century. That is why old European colonial powers who have messed up in the 20th century can not communicate on equal terms with the vision of leaders in the Middle-East. The Obama administration has taken a laissez-fair position in the Arab Revolution. As I have written, due to the failure of the Iraq invasion and consequent upheaval in the Middle-East, new regional powers are filling the gap. As the Arab monarchs live by Islamic teaching and Sharia Law, the western world will experience minorities will be persecuted in the coming years.
I would have strongly prefered to have build friendship with the Iranian people tha the new reality of Sunni jihadists running wild in North Africa and the Middle-East. Be assured, these have the backing of Sunni charities in Qatar, Saudi Arabia and the GCC countries. Listen to the Saudi preachers …
At the Jerusalem Post I read an opinion piece written by an American living in Israel. An interesting interview about his new book all about American politics and US-Israel relations. [To be clear, I disagree with his opinion but it illustrates the stubborness of biblical views and hatred for the Palestinians – Oui]
All these elements play a role why I believe Obama made the right choice with John Kerry, Chuck Hagel and John Brennen, his “dark side.”
My main problem with the film is that it downplays the contributions of the British and Canadians. Historical accuracy is always my first concern in these types of films.
I thought the movie was pretty fair to the Canadians. I don’t remember reading anything about the British role in the rescue attempt at all. The movie showed how essential the Canadians were to keeping the Americans safe and helping them get out of the country.
The movie does underplay the Canadian role pretty badly. In particular, far from being a reluctant host, the ambassador was very proactive in first shielding his guests and then helping them get out of the country.
Shorthand: The movie makes it look like it was a CIA op with some handy Canadian help.
In reality, it’s more like it was Canadian efforts that included the CIA that got them out.
What Geov said about the Canadians.
Historically from what I understand, the British efforts are presented inaccurately. I believe they are portrayed in the movie as reluctant to house the Americans. In reality they were eager to do so but sent them (at great effort and some risk) to the Canadians because the British did not believe they could adequately protect them.
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But it’s not a simple story where we can know that things would have turned out so much better without our meddling.
ie, sure, we helped strangle iranian democracy in its crib, but hey, we know democracy doesn’t work so a dictator is probably the best iran could hope for.
mossadegh’s crime was nationalizing the oil industry. neither we nor BP would stand still for that.
Mossedegh wasn’t much of a democrat, either. Just because the Cold War-era US didn’t like somebody doesn’t make him an angel.
was mossadegh’s election illegitimate? I’d like to read something from that perspective. you don’t see a lot of that in our rabidly anti-imperialist, pro-iran media.
I agree with others here that the movie didn’t really portray the Iranians as evil. It did portray some of them as crazy religious fundamentalists… because their government is controlled by crazy religious fundamentalists.
It was a great film overall; much better than most Hollywood swill. My only beef with it is that the main character of the story (the person Ben Affleck played) is really a latino guy. I think they should’ve cast a latino actor to play the part. I don’t know why that decision was made, but here we have a true story where the hero is a person of color and in the movie he’s white. Shame on them.
OT a little, but speaking of popular stories about Iran, I highly recommend the graphic novel, Persepolis. It’s an autobiography of a woman who lived through the revolution there when she was a young, middle class girl.
“…the main character of the story (the person Ben Affleck played) is really a latino guy. I think they should’ve cast a latino actor to play the part. I don’t know why that decision was made…”
Because Ben Affleck made this movie and he wanted to star in it? 🙂
Haha, yes that occurred to me too:) It also occurred to me that perhaps the movie’s financial backers wanted him to star in it in addition to him just directing because more people would see it then. It’s still a shame though.
“I highly recommend the graphic novel, Persepolis.”
I enjoyed the DVD as well, plus there are interesting extras, including some time with author/director Marjane Satrapi.
I forgot about the film version. Thanks for the reminder! I’ve been meaning to check it out.
It’s outstanding. Highly recommended, as are her graphic novels.
I just wanted to check in to express my disappointment with “Moonrise Kingdom”.
It had all the quaintness of Wes Anderson’s other movies but little of the humor.
Different strokes. For me, it had everything I appreciate in a movie. But if one is looking for movie with many lol moments, this wouldn’t be a good pick.