I really do not like the headline of Ron Brownstein’s new piece in the National Journal, but I think it is still an outstanding article. The headline says that Obama is giving up on attracting right-leaning white voters. A more accurate headline would say that the Democrats have a governing majority that doesn’t need to pander to right-leaning white voters anymore.
I encourage you to read Brownstein’s piece, even though it is quite long. I think it is important to familiarize yourself with the facts and statistics that Brownstein has assembled. If I can summarize his piece as concisely as possible, it argues that the Democrats no longer need to have a Blue Dog wing in order to dominate national elections. As a result, the party is more unified, more progressive, and more alienating to the white working class and rural, religious voters than ever before.
I think that is accurate. But there is a debate about what it means going forward. Some think that Obama had an unnatural and non-replicable appeal to minority voters. A future Democrat won’t be able to win the same percentages or achieve the same turnout, which will force them to find ways to appeal better to right-leaning whites. Others think that this very polarization is only going to become more magnified as the Republicans continue to alienate the ascendent demographics of the electorate.
I have a different theory, but it’s also a question. I think a successor to Obama who is white will immediately get a hearing from a large chunk of the white electorate who simply won’t consider supporting Obama. I think Obama got elected (the first time around) in large part because his race inspired a lot of people to vote who would have otherwise stayed home. But I think his race has hurt him once in office, at least in terms of his poll ratings. I believe that Obama would poll much better in the South and in much of Appalachia if he were white, even if his policies were identical. In other words, I think likely Democratic candidates for president in 2016 (who all happen to be white) can expect to start off with Obama’s coalition, plus a bunch of other people who don’t like Obama because he’s black. Someone like Hillary Clinton would also add all the PUMAs who dropped out when she lost, and a lot of other women, too. The Clintons used to be popular enough in Appalachia to win. That might not be possible anymore, but Hillary would certainly do much better in Arkansas and West Virginia than Obama did.
One premise in Brownstein’s piece is that the Democrats are aggravating right-leaning voters by pursuing things like gun control, immigration reform, climate legislation, and gay equality. If he’s right, then the party’s problems in the South and Appalachia are not specific to Obama, and they are growing. I suspect the truth is somewhere in between.
I think the president’s skin color acts a lot like the moon on our oceans. In some situations, it makes his popularity crest, and in some situations it sucks everything out to sea. Take away the tidal motions created by the president, and you get a clearer picture of where the Democratic Party stands against the Republican Party in their quest for the allegiance of the white working class voter.
I think the GOP has succeeded in maximizing their share of the white vote by playing on the president’s blackness. I don’t think they can be as effective with that against Clinton or Cuomo or O’Malley or Biden or Mark Warner, or whoever you can think of as a plausible 2016 nominee.
I think most of Obama’s coalition will turn out for his successor, as long as they feel that his successor is going to continue on the same path.
Health care! That can change a lot of minds by 2016.
Love your “moon” metaphor, BooMan.
I wholeheartedly agree with anegadagino’s comment re: the ACA – as the full reform kicks in over the next year or two I think you’re going to see a lot of minds gets blown. When people start receiving major tangible benefits (e.g., um, ACTUAL HEALTHCARE) from it, no amount of Republican rhetoric will be able to keep the ACA unpopular. It may take a little while for people’s denial to fade, but not too long. That will inure to the benefit of the 2016 Democratic presidential nominee, who may be perceived as an “abnormally” popular candidate simply because these voters are feeling good about Democrats for the first time. It will be important to take that into account when we try to figure out whether the 2016 candidate will pick up votes as compared to Obama because of his/her race.
I mean, what will Republican voters who were terrified about the evils of Obamacare possibly think about the GOP after Mom is able to keep taking her chemo treatments because of that same bill? That’s a profound, life-or-death betrayal of those people, whom the Republican party convinced to fight and nearly kill the bill that may now save the life of a family member.
What’s happening is that you’re signing up a family of new, lifetime Democratic voters right there.
If people were to really change their minds about Obama once the ACA went into full effect, he would be a major realigning political figure, very much the left’s Reagan. Don’t know that it will actually go down like that. I’d be content to keep signing up the young, minorities, women.
My uncle found out he had cancer last week. Two hospitals refused to admit him because his insurance wasn’t good enough. But he somehow got noticed by a patient advocate, paid for by the ACA, who got him into the best hospital in the area. My Republican family is surprised, to say the least. I can’t wait to see how this affects them.
A little early polling tests your hypothesis.
Kos: 2016 can be Hillary’s
Not all of that is demographic shift.
That’s what I hoped to see. I can’t say that I expected it exactly, but I thought it was possible. I think Hillary represents the maximum upside in terms of winning the popular vote and expanding the map, but we can still consider the trade off of losing a bit of our advantage in order to have a more progressive-minded president. That’s tough because a new President Clinton with a big congressional majority can do more than a President Kucinich with a split Congress.
The unanswered question with Hillary is a flip of the Obama question: how many voters will vote for her because of her status as the first woman candidate vs. how many won’t vote for a woman who would otherwise have voted for a male candidate? I suspect this is a much smaller subset of voters than Obama’s lost racist group. And I doubt it would make a difference in her margin of victory. But might affect the Congressional races (as Obama’s race presumably has)?
Clinton has spent the last few years largely attack free. The only thing the GOP attacked her for was Benghazi. They were busy targeting Obama. What will two year of negative adds do to her?
Also, we’ve seen she can’t run a presidential campaign that well (Mark Penn? grown men crying over the Texas primary system?) so I wonder if she is able to compete in the tech and org landscape in 2016 even if she wants to run.
Obama made a patient, good faith effort. Bottom line is that confederates will never change. Not ever. Just like the last 150+ years since the civil war have demonstrated.
(shrug) their choice.
One premise in Brownstein’s piece is that the Democrats are aggravating right-leaning voters by pursuing things like gun control, immigration reform, climate legislation, and gay equality.
Why is climate legislation included here? Or gun control for that matter? Louisiana and Mississippi are going to learn the hard way about their hardheadedness. And the few things, like universal background checks, are widely supported re: gun control.
Because just like “Obamacare” registers differently than “You can keep your kid on your plan until they’re 26,” “gun control” registers differently than “background checks.” At least that’s my assumption.
And yes, they will learn the hard way.
Just like to point out again that I was a beneficiary of “keep kid on your plan until 26” before Obama care…
….because of UNIONS.
I think I can see how it belongs. Especially when you’re talking about people who do not habitually engage in rational thought, it becomes sort of a package deal. You don’t like gays, you don’t like illegal immigrants, and your favorite radio hosts keep telling you this whole climate change business is part of a vast anti-freedom conspiracy that involves, among others, gays and illegal immigrants.
And then, too, any meaningful action on climate change would require a MASSIVE federal intervention, which is of course out of the question. So through various chains of association, vigorous opposition to things you don’t understand becomes a central part of your identity as a beleaguered white person.
Someone like Hillary Clinton would also add all the PUMAs who dropped out when she lost
And hey, 11 votes are 11 votes.
Irrational hatred is what Republicans do. The irrational hatred they show to Obama is based on race, that’s pretty easy to see. But it’s also based on the fact that he’s a liberal Democrat, and that’s not quite as easy to see, because the race issue seems to drown that out.
So what do you say about a guy like Bill Clinton, a southern white country boy if there ever was one, and in my view further to the right than Obama, having been the object of intense, irrational hatred from the right wing for 8 years straight? Well, you don’t say it was based on race (although Toni Morrison did call him “the first black president”).
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/05/08/toni-morrison-on-calling_n_100761.html
But at least he wasn’t ACTUALLY black.
And that’s the only real difference. I’m not minimizing that difference, I’m just pointing out that Republicans “do” irrational hostility, and we react most strongly to it when it is based on race.
But that hostility to Clinton was sure based on something. And it’s easy to forget just how hostile it was. But try to remember.
Whatever Democrat winds up running in 2016, the right wing will turn that Democrat into an object of irrational hatred. Based on whatever. It’s just what they do.
Repubs have obviously demonized Obama for the delectation of their “conservative” white rubes, but they have also demonized Dem policies for decades. And this with Clinton signing many of their “free market” abuses into law!
And the google also makes clear what the “conservative” movement has done to nice white Gramma Pelosi as well.
Obama made the hatred flow a little more easily, but the entire modus operandi of the plutocrat-funded “conservative” movement relies on manufacturing blind, spittle-flecked hatred for all lib’rul leaders and whatever they advocate, 24/7, whatever the facts may be.
And the google also makes clear what the “conservative” movement has done to nice white Gramma Pelosi as well.
I remember Faux started with the Pelosi=OBL(or similar) BS just as soon as they realized the GOPers were in danger of losing the House back in September(or so) of 2006. Also, too, a lot of GOP campaign commercials back then were “Don’t let the Democrats back in control because of that scary liberal lady from S.F.” nonsense. It’s both funny and sad that the GOP(and The Tan Man) are about as popular as herpes right now and there hasn’t been one commercial ran calling The Tan Man anything. Not even implying he’s a weeping drunken fool.
I am having a hard time working up too much enthusiasm for any of the potential 2016 candidates – Clinton, Biden, O’Malley, Cuomo, Schweitzer, Warner and Gillibrand. So, I am trying to find ways to get excited about any of them.
It’s too early to discuss 2016 electability but I am interested in seeing a discussion about which one would make the best president out of the potential 2016 candidates.
For me, O’Malley strikes me as the best president of the bunch. He has a long record of accomplishments as Governor and Mayor. He is arguably the most progressive of the bunch. He has some charisma and is an interesting character.
I find Schweitzer and Warner to be deadly dull. And Gillibrand and Clinton are both mostly all talk. I can’t think of anything either one has gotten accomplished. They both work hard, but there really isn’t much to show for it.
I’d love to hear why people are enthused about any of these candidates outside of electability.
He is arguably the most progressive of the bunch. He has some charisma and is an interesting character.
Schweitzer is an interesting character, also, too, He’s also been a pretty successful red state governor. He’s not so hot on energy, but then neither has the current president, when push has come to shove. Though that remains unresolved, due to KXL.
I don’t really know enough about Schweitzer to form an opinion. He’s been deadly dull every time I’ve seen him speak though.
How is he on social issues?
I’m pretty sure there’s not another person alive who has Obama’s combination of everything we need, plus charisma. I would personally hate to follow Obama on anything.
But when I try to think if there’s anybody I could get really excited about, the only one who comes to mind is Sherrod Brown, and I don’t know if that’s even a possibility.
Sherrod Brown speaks to the populist in me in the same way that Obama does, and with as lopsided as our world has gotten, I think it’s certainly time for a populist president.
Sherrod Brown is as “real person” as you can get. He is my Senator. I took off work early back in the summer just to go to one of his local events, shake his hand, look him in the eye and tell him how much I appreciated him. He came to our county Dem dinner last year and the place was packed out. He’s a great guy. Don’t know about running for President, but I like him sitting in Washington and representing me.
“I think the GOP has succeeded in maximizing their share of the white vote by playing on the president’s blackness”
///
This, this, this.
This absolutely and completely sums up the problems the republicans face. They are never going higher with this demographic.
.
As to the effect of racism on Dem turnout, I think West Virginia demonstrates that point aptly. I’m working from memory here (have to go to work soon), but Clinton mopped the floor with Obama there in the primary, didn’t she? And then few years later an internet researcher discovered that WV led the nation in use of the “n-word” in web searches, by a healthy margin. I don’t think those points are unrelated, although I guess by 2000 Gore had already become the first Dem to lose WV in a general election since, what? maybe ever?
But I also wonder how the politics of gun control factor into this. Even in 2008-2009 it was clear that President Obama drives the gun lovers absolutely nuts. When Bill Clinton was president, you didn’t see gun and ammo sales spike anything like what PBHO has, what’s the word, stimulated, did you? I’m pretty sure I recall seeing a report that ammo sales in 2009 exceeded 9 billion rounds.
Maybe that’s an effect of Clinton having enacted the Brady Bill, and the original assault weapons ban. It could well be that simply by dint of being the next elected Democratic president since Clinton, PBHO was expected to continue enacting gun control legislation. But even in that case, I would argue that his race adds a multiplier effect to that expectation and warps it into full-on paranoia.
Again, look to WV, and what it takes a Dem like Joe Manchin to keep office in a state that effectively supports Republican positions and policies (and this is not an apologia for Manchin, by any means): not only does he have to “out-coal” his GOP opposition, but he’s made every effort he can to remind WV voters how much he loves his guns and the NRA, even going so far as to run campaign ads featuring himself shooting unpopular legislation with a hunting rifle.
So anyway, the NRA is completely out in the open as fanatic Obama haters now, but from the very beginning he had an unprecedented ability to drive gun fanatics up the wall and over the fence. Race may be the major factor there, but coupled with 2nd Amendment paranoia it seems to produce a greater effect than either would do in isolation.
The primary reason that former supporters have turned off Obama is that he is doing nothing about the nation’s economic problems except making unemployment insurance effectively permanent (which I support).
It’s about JOBS. There is no jobs program except the same old neocon trickle-down crap. Trickle-down and saving Wall Street, give the unemployed a pittance to stay alive. That’s it. He HAS done well in other areas, but economics is what turns elections. He would have bee a one term President if Romney and Ryan had been so obviously worse on economics.
This country needs a new direction and people will vote for whoever offers it in 2016, whether it’s Left or Right, but it has to be fundamentally different from the last 13 years.
Just for the record, here’s some of what President Obama has done about jobs:
*the Recovery Act was the single largest economic stimulus in the history of the country—larger as a percent of GDP than all of the New Deal programs combined;
*in the wake of the 2010 elections, the president effectively negotiated another stimulus/job creation package of (IIRC) about $400 billion;
*after the summer 2011 debt ceiling resolution, the president ordered his staff to “go big” and he proposed and campaigned vigorously for another $400+ billion package (the American Jobs Act).
In 2012, according to the BLS, 2.17 million new jobs were created, the most jobs created in a calendar year since 2005 and better than 7 of the 8 Bush/Cheney years. It’s still not enough, but it’s not because President Obama hasn’t done a lot and tried to do more.
We agree that, to a large extent, “economics is what turns elections”. That’s why President Obama got re-elected (and why most presidential election models predicted he would be re-elected); the economy is moving (too slowly, but moving) in the right direction.
Where is that job switch again? I know I saw it around here somewhere.
I’m not talking about road jobs, Jim. Ray LaHood knew how to handle that. I’m talking about permanent jobs.
16% of the country is jobless. Everyone jobless over 60 is permanently jobless. I feel sick every time I think of my three unemployed grandsons and we talk about increasing immigration because there is a shortage of labor in the USA.
Most of the recovery act was useless tax cuts and they are long gone. As the population grows it is not surprising that the total number of jobs created as an absolute number has grown.
I don’t hear jubilation about jobs in this country. I hear despair.
Jobs are, as you know, actually up rather significantly. Government jobs (state and local, especially) are severely cut. The unemployment rate would be about a point lower without those job cuts. In other recessions, government jobs increased rather than decreased. And remember, Obama has proposed a batch of infrastructure stimulus that hasn’t made it through the House which is intent on keeping spending down and is afraid to borrow money when it’s the cheapest it has been almost ever.
Another thought: about 2016 — WOMEN. I wonder how much how a woman votes influences how the men in their lives vote? My sense is that it used to be that the men made the choice and “their woman” followed along. My feeling these days is the opposite. This is why I think the ACA is going to be such a big deal. It really is an issue that resonates with women.
I just don’t have any outrage these days, just curiosity, Seems to me some kind of sifting out is happening and I don’t understand where it is going – Also very curious what’s going to happen re: filibuster given the Lucy with the football repub leadership.??
I wounder to what extent Clinton, and to a greater extent Biden, will be “tainted” by their association with the Obama Administration in the eyes of the Obama haters – so much so that their antipathy to Obama will rub onto them. I suspect this is part of the reason Clinton has taken a break – so she will not be associated with the inevitable partisan rancour that will accompany his second term.
I suspect there may be a mood amongst the electorate for a complete break from what will by then be the ancien regime which is why someone like Rubio might be a dangerous opponent – quite apart from his appeal to some minorities. Democrats are very united now – in stark contrast to Republicans – but I wonder will divisions between liberals and centrists re-emerge towards the end of Obama’s term with the result that any Democrat will have difficult matching Obama’s turnout machine.
Don’t get me wrong – I think both Biden and Clinton are well qualified to be President – probably more so than any other potential candidate – and yet I wonder whether they will be able to capture the post Obama zeitgeist and run a successful general campaign. Probably yes, but probably not the landslide their qualifications might suggest.
no one has any idea. the inauguration was last week and Obama is now taking up problems that prev prezes have backed off from or had no opportunity to address – climate change, immigration, gun control.
imo there will never be anything ancien about the Obama admin,
I don’t know why there’s any question about “giving up” on any right-leaning voters of any race.
Or for that matter “giving up” on any voters at all.
But the more the Democrats “give up” on working class voters the more they will edge right on class issues and the less they will deserve the support of working class voters of any race.
Is that what you want?
Democrats have PLENTY of working class voters.
Working class BLACK voters.
Working class LATINO voters.
Working class ASIAN voters.
None of which have a problem voting their own economic interests.
Well, to each his own.
I have long given up on folks who’d rather cling to WHITENESS than vote in their own economic best interests.
Black people just need to get to the polls..once they get there, they vote in their own self-interest.
No the picture of the ‘voter that votes against their own economic interests’ is one of a blue-collar White voter.
I know the President is the President of All of America. But to be honest he should just say f ’em.
They hate him because he’s BLACK. -straight up, no chaser.
And nothing he can do would convince them otherwise because they cling to that Whiteness.