I think Ed Kilgore is entirely correct that anti-choicers will not take credit for a dramatic decline in the frequency of abortions in this country because they (correctly) believe that IUD’s and Plan B are responsible, and because they (incorrectly) believe that IUD’s and Plan B actually cause abortions.
It is already well-known that the anti-choice movement simply will not work with progressives to reduce the frequency of unwanted pregnancies. In fact, most of their efforts have the effect of increasing unwanted pregnancies. Their policies also have the unfortunate effect of delaying abortions until later in the pregnancy.
My question is this: should we consider these people to just be deluded? Or, should we consider them to be primarily concerned not about abortion, but with preventing women from having sex out of wedlock? Is the idea basically that if women can’t separate sex from child-bearing that they will save themselves for marriage?
Is it any more complicated than that?
No, it’s not, Booman.
No.
It’s really all about male control of the women-folk. By any and every means possible.
Though the male religious grifters in the front of the churches, synagogue’s, Mosques, Temples, etc, will slap some cover-wording for this misogyny, by providing their interpretation of the word(s)of some the that religion’s favorite prophet(s)!
Exactly!
No, not exactly. It’s a mix. There are those who truly believe abortion to be murder. I respect those people. One can tell who they are because they’re open to partnering to reduce the incidence of abortion. They are unfortunately a minority.
There are those who want to promote abstinence and are under the impression that without birth control or abortion women will be forced to keep their legs crossed.
There are those who are essentially patriarchal and consciously or otherwise want to keep women subjugated.
And then there are those who are simply part of a tribe that self identifies as conservative and will support pretty much any position they are told is part of their conservative identity.
Agreed. And the abortion wars will not end until Americans recognize that control of women’s sex lives is not a proper function of government.
This. It’s simpler than not wanting women to have sex out of wedlock. It’s misogyny. Pure and simple.
Yup. It’s about control of the degree of life that girls and women are allowed to live. The goal is for women to be reduced as existential actors, less agency, less self to act from. It’s plain old-fashioned patriarchy, written large. The best book to read to get a picture of the mindset is “The Handmaid’s Tale.” Much less well known, but also excellent, is Rebecca Orr’s “Outlaw School.”
you are on point
I actually think they want the kids to get born, wedlock or no. There’s a demographic “case” for this — non-Christians have higher birth rates! — and there’s the retrograde treatment of women as well.
I think the illogic of being against contraception and abortion has it’s roots in a ‘consequences’ and ‘punishment’ mindset.
They want you to take your punishment if you have sex. God requires that sex only be for procreation and that is that. If you do the deed, they want to make sure that you are stuck with the consequences, and if you weren’t planning on having a child, maybe next time you will think twice. Because that is how they feel about sex.
And one thing about many religious people in general, they will go to great lengths to make sure the everyone around them is required to follow the rules they do.
The original rules in Leviticus, along with the prohibition of masturbation, homosex, anal and oral sex and taking your dead brother’s wife, were designed to give maximum spread of the Hebrew religion through high birthrate. Works for 2000 BC, but not for now. Considering the world overpopulation, religion should be encouraging masturbation, birth control, abortion, homosex, and anl and oral sex. As for marrying your sister-in-law, no thanks!
Well, I will abstain from sex before marriage if all the men do the same thing.
That reminds of the Gallup survey that said 60% of High School boys and 40% of High School girls had had sex. Leaving one to wonder who 20% of the boys were having sex with! (Yes, I know, multiple partners, older women)
No, just stupid AND evil, not necessarily in that order.
Yes. Yes we should.
No. No it isn’t.
There are too many people in the anti-choice movement to reduce it to a single motive.
The fat, sweaty middle aged man whose jowls shake along with his wagging finger? Doesn’t like female sexuality.
But there are people who have a moral problem with abortion who have become so invested in opposing abortion that they can’t differentiate between abortion at any contraception that occurs after sperm meets egg.
And you have Catholics who follow the Church’s line reflexively. While the Church’s position may be entwined with its sexism, there IS a narrow Biblical rationale.
I’m not saying it’s right, but if you convince yourself that contraception is a sin, then you are placing yourself on the moral high ground. And it’s very hard to make people give that up voluntarily.
Change assisted suicide to abortion and you get the mindset.
Didn’t work. Ok just click it:
link
Oh ffs:
http://www.freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/files/2014/02/torturegranny.jpg
Had the same trouble constructing your link. Something is wrong with the software, Booman.
Thanks. I was doing it from my phone so it may have been that which was causing the problems.
I seriously thought this was fake when I saw it. But no. this is their mindset. Suffering for Jesus, baby.