The sad thing about George Will’s latest fiasco is that he had a point, as you can learn from reading Simon Van Zuylen-Wood’s piece on sexual misconduct at Swarthmore College. There really is a conflict between various progressive values that makes adjudicating allegations of rape on campus a terribly difficult thing to do.
The thing is, Zuylen-Wood was able to write about this touchy subject without being dismissive or embarrassing his publishers. Swarthmore has a particularly hard time finding the right balance because of their Quaker traditions and emphasis on consensus decision-making in conflict resolution. Their instinct is to have two people work out their differences, which isn’t appropriate when one party is alleging that they have been physically violated.
But conservatives really do have a solid point that campus boards are not courts of law and there are inherent flaws in any judicial system that ignores due process, doesn’t necessarily let a defendant confront his accusers, and can dole out life-ruining verdicts.
Part of the problem is the nature of the beast. When an unambiguous crime has been committed, the best procedure is to involve the police. But universities should have a higher standard than just what can be considered a crime. What to do, for example, when a male student enters a female student’s dorm room uninvited and finding her naked refuses to leave?
Is that something the police need to be involved in? Is anything short of expulsion an appropriate punishment? And who gets to decide what really happened when testimony differs?
The larger problem, by far, is that universities have not been taking reports of sexual assault seriously enough. But there are no easy answers for how to set up a system that is fair and effective.
But George Will didn’t further the debate one iota. What he suggested was that being a victim of rape confers status on the victims. And he was utterly dismissive of a Swarthmore woman who felt she was raped, because she had had consensual encounters with the man previously and didn’t report the crime for a month and a half. Mr. Will doesn’t spend much time talking to women about sexual assault, obviously, or he would understand the many emotions and considerations women must go through when considering what to do about an unwanted sexual encounter.
By acting like a pig, Mr. Will totally undermined whatever legitimate points he had to make and made the conversation all about him.
Whether that’s a failure on his part or not, only he knows.
It’s not like Will’s stock in trade isn’t always to make it about himself rather than to serve to expand a conversation. He is, after all, looking for attention rather than understanding.
Like many if not most long-time Washington Post columnists, Mr. Will seems to have devolved with age. These days it seems like his main interest isn’t necessarily to call attention to himself but to score points for the home team. I think there was a time twenty years or so ago that Mr. Will actually was interested in intellectual combat for its own sake.
Twenty years ago, he may have written a column that was less aimed at pissing off progressives and stirring the hearts of conservatives, and more about the vexing problems facing college administrators as they try to do the right thing.
It still would have been focused less on the victims than the accused, but there’s a place for that if it’s done right.
He doesn’t care about a battle of minds anymore. At best, he’s settled for a battle of wits.
His devolution reminds me of David Gergan’s. Both traded on their ‘wisdom’ at first then gave in to the rush of talking points, now it’s just talk without a compass.
What to do, for example, when a male student enters a female student’s dorm room uninvited and finding her naked refuses to leave?
Is that something the police need to be involved in?
Uh, yeah, that’s at least trespassing and could be considered breaking and entering, attempted burglary, attempted rape, etc, etc, etc.
This isn’t rocket science.
One question: doesn’t every college/university have its own police force? I’ve attended a few, and they all had their own police.
Don’t make this simpler than it should be.
If every one who entered a dorm room uninvited was prosecuted for trespassing, our jails would be overflowing.
If every dumb 19 year old, away from home for the first time, was thrown in jail for acting creepy around girls, we’d go broke.
I had a friend in college who I got to know when he walked into my dorm room uninvited and sat down in a chair. He said nothing. We tried to engage him in conversation, but he just wanted to watch us play cards. Every day for a couple of weeks, he repeated the pattern. One day, he spoke. He had learned our game and wanted to play. So began our friendship.
He once sincerely asked to watch me have sex with my girlfriend. Another time, when I was on a date with a different girl, he came into my room and slapped a Clarence Thomas/Anita Hill porno (“Black Justice”) in my VCR and started playing it, with no regard for my company.
Another time, realizing that I was naked, he tried to remove my sheets and blankets so he could get a glimpse.
Okay, so my friend had some “issues.” Did I want him put in prison for them? Absolutely not.
If I was a girl and he had done those things to me you can imagine how things could have gone for him. But he needed to grow up. He probably could have used a little counseling. But not expulsion. And not jail. He was a 19 year old kid from Detroit who had no social skills. I loved that guy. I often wonder what has become of him.
Walking into a dorm room uninvited, and/or acting creepy around girls is not: walking into a room uninvited and then refusing to leave.
Those are two totally different legal animals. Which is what I was addressing. Not trying to make it absurdly simple, just addressing the phrase you used. I’m sorry, but if someone walks into your room uninvited and refuses to leave, that is a crime. Period.
About your friend: perhaps you didn’t want to put him into jail (or prison). That’s perfectly fine. In fact, by not telling the person to leave, there wasn’t necessarily a “crime” committed, although the tort of trespassing still occurred.
But, when you say a male, entering a female’s room uninvited, while she’s nude, and not leaving upon request…that is simple and is a crime. And I’m not trying to mansplain here, but I bet females might not find it as amusing to have a man walk into their room uninvited while they are nude and not leave when told to do so. They might fear for their safety, in fact.
I’m not trying to be a prick, I’m just quoting what you said verbatim.
But this kind of thing happens in college, where people are often, very often, acting odd, weird, and occasionally criminally nutty. But that is college. If every weirdo in college was prosecuted, there would be hundreds of thousands.
Prosecution =! Police involvement
I addressed whether the police should get involved in a very specific circumstance.
I’m gonna go full sexist here, but just about every female over 16 has a cell phone within 5 feet of them right now. If a man walked into her room uninvited, while she was nude, and refused to leave, if she were to call the police, should they tell her to call her 21 year old RA down the hall?
Okay, so if it is a crime, what is the appropriate punishment?
And does the creep get to confront his accusers or is he just presumed guilty and expelled?
These cases are rarely straightforward.
I can honestly say that I was troubled when a large man tried to rip the covers off my bed so he could view me naked. I think he was behaving inappropriately and in a vaguely threatening manner. I could have had him punished for his behavior, but I took it as as the behavior of a confused young man and let it go.
This kind of vaguely harassing and creepy behavior is so commonplace on campuses and among people of that age that it presents very real and very vexing problems for the people who must arbitrate such disputes.
I think a boy who behaves inappropriately should be counseled on why his behavior was wrong. But that doesn’t mean that I have a great solution for how to create a fair system to adjudicate every instance of creepy behavior.
In some cases, people are dangerous and should be expelled even though their actions aren’t likely to result in any kind of prosecution.
I’ve never discussed prosecution.
The scenario you painted was of a male going into a naked female’s room and not leaving when asked.
I just said it above, but most females have a cell phone within their reach almost always. I do too, although I’m a male. I’m not trying to be offensively sexist.
But, if the female calls the police, should they tell her wrong number and hang up? If the police have to literally remove the man, should he just be told not to do that again because hey, that’s not cool, bro?
I was addressing a very specific scenario, and in that case, yes, the police should get involved. If the guy isn’t leaving, that’s a crime, the female may be terrified and need help.
It doesn’t address that the guy was drunk, wandered in, and passed out. Facts are part and parcel of the prosecution and defense of any crime.
If discussing the scenario where a guy does this, doesn’t get arrested, but the female knows who the man is, should she be precluded from telling the police? Should the police tell her to tell it to someone who cares?
You’re talking about a crime. Literally, a crime. The police can get involved, and it’s pretty tough for me to understand why a person in that scenario shouldn’t be able to get the police to investigate the crime.
What if it isn’t just some backwoods goofball and a stalker in the making?
Meh. I’m not trying to say that some guy who wanders into a room and acts strange for a minute should be thrown into prison. But a crime is a crime, and maybe college boards shouldn’t worry so much about the reputation of some idiot who may be a danger to another student.
Well, this example came from the article I cited and it didn’t provide a great deal of detail. From what I can tell, the police were not called or consulted and the administration pretty much blew off the complaint.
I think it’s a legitimate complaint. I don’t know how long the guy stuck around or what he said or how he acted. Those details are important.
But generally speaking, staring at a naked girl is creepy and inappropriate, but not necessarily something that casts you as a sexual predator who needs to be arrested or expelled.
I used it as an example of where campus policy might be more strict than the letter of the law. The police probably have better things to do than investigate lingering leerers. But that doesn’t mean it should be tolerated and go without some form of discipline.
Yeah, this example is a pretty clear cut case of criminal trespass, among other things. Put the case in the context of a woman in the Bronx steps out of the shower and finds some street creeper hanging in her apartment.
In a dorm the boundaries of the living space are different, less defined, than in a condo or apt [not to mention a house], so the issue is enforcing the integrity of the boundaries of the human body when the boundaries of the living space are not well defined.
Campus security, yes, they exist, but they take their orders from the supervisor/ administration. that’s why administration policy is a central issue.
and I guess, to put the George Will side of it in these terms, one way to look at what college students are going through is to say they are trying to define their own boundaries outside the parental context. And, one thing that makes the context difficult nowadays, but something that is also a benefit for the students of course, is that medications available now allow some fairly marginal students to function in a college setting who in years past without these medications, could not function. This is great because presumably the college years will launch them into a productive life, but it means many more “marginal” students on campus and more advisor and faculty involvement/ paying attention to student life issues required.
George Will – Director of the Bradley Foundation: Bradley Foundation Bankrolled Groups Pushing Back on Scott Walker John Doe Criminal Probe. He received the $250,000 Bradley prize a few years ago.
Why are young “men’s” reputations more important than the physical and mental health of the young women?
Because when you are on the sex offender list, which is what happens when some young woman decides 4 months later tat it was rape, you never get off, and pretty much your life is ruined.
So that’s an argument against sex offender registries, of which I am against. That is not an argument in favor of “false rape!” to be taken more seriously than it already, sadly in even progressive circles apparently, is taken now.
Also, being “convicted” by a university system usually never involves the police. The police aren’t involved unless the young woman wants them involved, and typically — in my experience — the police dissuade women from reporting. So do the universities.
And even once reported, no charges are filed unless the DA thinks it has a case. Which is also, again, usually not the case.
When a young man is convicted of a sexual issue, he goes on the sex offender list. Once on, you cannot ever get off. You cannot get a law license, and you cannot get other professional certifications. In Miami, you cannot live in any place except under a bridge. This is a very serious issue. And if it is due to a difference of opinion, what is happening is that the difference of opinion may offend or bother one party, but it will destroy the entire life of the other.
And the bar for destroying someone life over a difference of opinion over what happened in a brief time had damn well better be high.
It has been said that hard cases make bad law. I have read excerpts of the Swarthmore woman’s story, though I confess not the entire thing. It’s been nearly 40 years since I would have found myself in a similar situation and a lot has changed in that time.
That being said, making generalizations or deciding policies based on this episode is an extremely dicey business. For one, we have just the young woman’s side of this story, and what the young man might have to say could drastically change folks’ point of view. I don’t know what happened in that woman’s room that night, and unless you are the woman or the man, neither do you.
I think the discussion should be grounded in more familiar territory. As it is, starting things with the Swarthmore incident is like taking a class of beginning piano students and starting them on a masterwork by Bach. Nobody even knows what they’re looking at.
Let’s put it this way:
Even when universities have video evidence of the crime, and even that evidence is undeniably rape (the woman was unconsciously black out drunk and raped by three individuals…on tape), it’s still a slap on the wrist. What was their punishment? Expulsion…after they graduate.
Yeah, saying universities aren’t taking sexual assault very seriously is an extreme understatement.
“universities have not been taking reports of sexual assault seriously enough”
I have some sympathy for the administrators. They are being asked to intervene and resolve difficult situations with young and often very immature or drunk / high students. I don’t pretend to know the answer and no doubt George Will doesn’t either. Given the stakes and the suffering involved, I’m often surprised that anyone even takes these risks anymore. Some, I suppose, don’t know what they are getting themselves into. Others, I suppose, don’t care until it is too late. And the men… are truly despicable little jerks. We have a sick society here in America.
You can’t live life without risk, but the rates of divorce and domestic violence make living alone seem rather appealing these days.
In colleges, there are 3 kinds of men. Some men, probably 75%, respect women, and also are interested in sex with them. They attempt to seduce women (which invariably involves a specific action called “seduction” which is a form of persuasion) and otherwise do sexual things. But this is generally appropriate.
Another 20% or so are interested in women, but have no clue as to what to do to further that. They’d like sex, but can’t figure out how to get from A to B. Lot of these are Asperger’s or close to.
The real issues arise with a small proportion, my guess is 5%, but it may be smaller. These are very predatory guys, who drop date rape drugs into drinks, and who do engage in highly coercive behavior. These are often clearly rapists, or at least sexual predators who engage in extremely pushy approaches.
When I was in college, back in 1970-1975, I was part of a group of folks. There were 3-4 guys and 5-6 women, and we hung out and went to bars, and did other stuff. There was one guy, who basically went through all the women, one after another, and screwed them all. All the women were kind of aware of this guy, who I considered a sexual predator, but were apparently fascinated by him. I never heard of his actions as “rape” but the borders were at a different point back then, anyway. But people like that are ones that folks should be concerned about.
But there are many more categories nowadays; among college aged students there is the issue of defining gender and sexual orientation, another area where young people are essentially completely free to define themselves in todays culture (yes, in some percentage of the population sexual orientation is biologically well defined, but if , say one is attracted to women, one can identify as a male attracted to women or a woman attracted to women. Imo it’s again very much about identity.
Anthony Giddens writes about “colonizing our identity” (should find the reference, but anyway here’s this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Giddens%2C_Baron_Giddens
)
“What to do, for example, when a male student enters a female student’s dorm room uninvited and finding her naked refuses to leave?”
Arraign the student on charges for criminal trespass?
The article you linked does bring to mind the issues of criminal prosecution — even when acquitted, being brought up on charges can have ruinous consequences for the accused. But we as a society have decided that it is perfectly okay to regularly prosecute predominantly poor and minority defendants for all crimes, minor and major, and they are regularly sentenced, lives destroyed, and yet their individual cases receive almost no fanfare. You certainly wont see conservatives like George Will jumping to their defense.
If we have decided to undertake this punitive course of action, why not apply it to the rich, privileged, and predominantly white attendees of liberal arts universities? You can bet that there would be a strong deterrence effect.
When I read Will’s article I also could see the point he was trying to make. And it was actually a valid point, which made me think a little bit more about the complexity of the issue. Then I saw all the post-article bleating from him, after he was forced to try and elaborate on his point, and he simply descended into ridiculous premises, spouting gibberish and finger pointing at nasty liberal straw men. So the points in the original article simply got buried in the all the white noise surrounding the later controversy.
But that is the discourse that we now have. It should not be surprising that all we seem to be able to do is talk past each other on so many important issues. It is really kind of depressing.
I am shocked and angered by the ignorance displayed in some of the comments here, even from people I respect. It’s seriously disappointing, and upsetting, to say the least.
I don’t know where to begin, and I certainly don’t have the energy.
Going away now because I’m not sure what else to do.
You can start with “men are pigs”.
I miss information about the remedy for this ‘cultural’ phenomena, and I would be surprised if Swathmore was on top of the list of colleges where sexual assault is more prevalent. I suppose students are informed of rules, regulations, procedures and sanctions. From this 2013 article, Swathmore has implemented critical changes in procedures and personnel.
○ Former student sues Swathmore college for improper expulsion
○ Joshua was brutally and violently raped after a frat party on campus
○ Presidemt Chopp announced she will be leaving Swathmore