Something my colleague David Atkins wrote this morning at the Washington Monthly jarred something in my head and made me realize that a history lesson is in order. Atkins was discussing the disruption of a Bernie Sanders rally in Seattle, Washington, yesterday by #blacklivesmatter protesters. He has an interesting perspective and it’s worth considering his point of view. What really caught my attention, however, was his conclusion.
Rosa Parks didn’t pick a bus in Berkeley; she picked one in Selma. If civil disobedience is the weapon of choice, it’s probably time to take that weapon to the real enemy.
This struck me as ahistorical. Yes, it’s true that Rosa Parks did not protest in Berkeley, but she didn’t “pick” which city she lived in and which bus system she used. But there’s another, more important, reason that Atkins’ example is unfortunate. If there’s a historical precedent for #blacklivesmatter, it doesn’t strike me as being the Montgomery Bus Boycott or even the broader battle against Jim Crow. The most direct ancestor of #blacklivesmatter is the Black Panther Party for Self-Defense.
Now, I know what happened to the Black Panther Party over the years. I know about the schisms within the leadership and their persecution (literally) by the FBI, and how they joined with and split from white progressives, and how charged they are as a political symbol. I do not make this comparison to predict the same future for #blacklivesmatter or to stir up emotions on any side. I merely note that the Black Panther Party for Self-Defense arose for a very specific purpose and in a very specific place. They were organized in Oakland in 1966 for the purpose of following around the police to make sure that they didn’t commit violent acts against the black community. And, geography being what it is, the border between Oakland and Berkeley is fluid and often hard to discern. It would not be inaccurate to say that the Black Panther Party began in Berkeley.
Now, I wouldn’t say that Huey Newton and Bobby Seale chose Oakland/Berkeley any more than Rosa Parks chose Montgomery, Alabama. They were all reacting to conditions in their respective communities. Only later on, when their initial acts had spurred bigger organizing efforts, did people begin to make strategic decisions about the location of their protests and expansion.
In retrospect, however, it was significant that the Panthers got their start on the West Coast in one of the most liberal regions of the country. Their whole movement is incomprehensible outside of the context of East Bay politics, and East Bay politics today are incomprehensible without reference to the legacy of the Panthers. In a broader sense, if racism had not been so persistent and lethal in the supposedly racially enlightened East Bay during the mid-1960’s, the cause of black militancy probably never would have caught fire.
It’s not just coincidental that Bernie Sanders has run into confrontations with #blacklivesmatter during his visits to the West Coast in Arizona and Washington. There is a culture there with a long memory, and I think it’s critical to understanding why we’re seeing these tactics used by #blacklivesmatter against a white progressive candidate for the presidency.
Begin with the fact that this fight against police violence is a civil rights movement. It doesn’t have a calendar tied to the 2016 presidential election. It’s a fight that has been going on in some organized form at least since the formation of the Panthers in 1966. It doesn’t care if Ronald Reagan or Jerry Brown are the governor or the president or the governor again. Talk to almost any #blacklivesmatter supporter and they’ll tell you that they don’t really care about who wins the Democratic primary or how their movement might impact the general election, except insofar as their cause is advanced and the candidates are compelled to acknowledge and provide plans to redress their grievances.
Given the history of this civil rights movement, it’s naive and basically foolhardy to argue that white progressives are allies. It was a complete inability of the white political structure of the East Bay to confront the Oakland police department that began the movement in the first place.
So, one level of miscommunication here is simple and straightforward. Supporters of Bernie Sanders are focused primarily on Bernie Sanders as a political candidate in a specific contest that is tied to a specific calendar and that has goals that are tied first to Sanders winning that contest and secondarily (as a fallback position) to preventing the Republicans from winning it. They tend to view everything through these filters and get frustrated when they perceive that #blacklivesmatter does not share their goals or care about potentially undermining them.
Another level of miscommunication arises because supporters of Bernie Sanders perceive their champion as being excellent on the issues that blacks are supposed to care about, and they see themselves as allies of the black community. They certainly do not see themselves as adversaries or among the first dozen groups worthy of being the focus of protest and disruption. But, in the East Bay, at least, it was the liberal establishment, not rabid segregationists from Alabama, who failed the black community and this failure spurred the organized fight against police brutality. If you want to know why it’s so easy to find anti-white-progressive vitriol coming from black organizers on Twitter, for example, it’s because there has never been a sense of common cause or trust on this issue, going back to the very beginning.
Now, I have some problems with Al Giordano’s take on this, primarily because he’s using “white progressive” almost as an epithet and painting with such a broad brush. Just because a segment of the white progressive movement has antagonized the black progressive community with their treatment of President Obama does not mean that it’s fair to characterize all or even most white progressives that way. So, I think Giordano needs to dial it back and reduce the polarizing effect of what he’s arguing. Having said that, the antagonism and lingering bad feelings are real:
This campaign is not about you getting your “Bernie fan boy experience” uninterrupted at a campaign rally. And you don’t get to shout down protesters who want your candidate to lead more with their priorities. You don’t get to yell, as one Sanders supporter did in Seattle today, “Tase them!” You don’t get to say “Bernie marched with Martin Luther King” or “he has done more for your people than those hecklers ever did.”
And you absolutely don’t get to do it when just months ago you cheered the LGBT heckler at Obama’s White House event, when you cheered every time the white ladies of Code Pink did it, when you whined and complained about Obama for six years not giving you your “hope and change” cookies as you define them.
You know why you don’t get that cookie? Because nonwhite Americans saw your dreadful behavior toward Obama all these years. That’s a big reason why. Now you need their support, you gotta court it just like Obama once courted you.
Instead too many of you are on Twitter right now whitesplaining and lecturing and talking down to black folks and people of all hues who happen to see this through the lens of the same team. Oh, yeah, that’s a real bright idea for winning this campaign. Let’s go on Twitter and troll the black people about how they don’t understand Bernie…
…The reason your guy is having such a hard time is that many of you have alienated black, brown, yellow and red people all these years. Those of you who were in New York’s Occupy Wall Street ran the black and hispanic organizers out of there, calling them sell outs for the Democratic party, insisting that you could have “no leaders” to people who build leadership among young people, and through your overall desire to just be in a white college educated ghetto while you tell yourselves you’re “not racist.” So now Bernie is getting the payback for white progressive disrespect of people of color, including of Barack Obama.
I think there are a lot of people who need to hear what Giordano is saying, but I also think we need bridge-builders in the progressive community right now, on both sides of this divide. And I don’t think it’s going to help things to try to shove this on down the throats of Sanders’ supporters and tell them that they’ve earned this disrespect. It won’t work the other way, whitesplaining to black organizers, and it won’t work this way blacksplaining in the other direction.
To begin with, if you’re a white progressive supporter of Bernie Sanders and you consider yourself an advocate of the goals of #blacklivesmatter, the main thing you need to do differently is to stop expecting the anti-police violence movement to operate with or even acknowledge any kind of electoral priority or strategy. Then you need to recognize that this police violence is pervasive and as likely to happen at a BART station in the Bay Area as it is to happen in suburban Saint Louis or Selma, Alabama. Stop complaining that you’re the wrong target for these protests.
On the other side, I won’t argue against a strategy that attempts to arouse white progressives from their complacent slumber, but there needs to be some fairness and respect involved. Sen. Bernie Sanders and his supporters may not “get” it, and they may respond with hostility or by walking away in a huff, but human nature being what it is, you shouldn’t hold these things against them. They are your most vital potential allies in this fight, and you might need to rattle them for a while but you don’t need to treat them with a lack of charity.
Recognize, first of all, that your tactics do not comport with their immediate priorities, and that their immediate priorities are tied to a calendar and can’t be put off to some later time. For Sanders’ supporters, there is a job to do right now, and that job is to get delegates for their candidate. If that fails, as it probably will, they will want to make sure we’re not dealing with another President Bush or Cruz or Walker or Rubio in a year and a half. You should share (or, at least, respect) that priority even if it isn’t your highest priority, and even if you think it’s largely irrelevant to your cause of fighting police violence. Also, understand that you can hurt the short-term cause of progressive electoral politics through your actions. For one obvious example, the Republican Party has decided that they would rather try to maximize the white vote rather than appeal to people of color. So, contributing to the racial polarization of the country or the perception that the Democrats are “the black party” or are in any way “anti-white” is doing the Republicans’ work for them.
Basically, what I’m saying here is that a little sophistication is called for, and that you should respect the views of political election experts who are worried that the tactics of #blacklivesmatter will effect white voting behavior in the upcoming elections. You may not defer to their wisdom, but you should see what they’re saying and understand that it’s not a dismissal of your goals to question how you’re going about achieving them.
The biggest problem right now, as I see it, is that these two groups have begun a war of words with each other. They are spending in inordinate amount of time insulting each other. This is something you should just refuse to participate in. Try to listen to other people’s point of view and then after you’ve taken that in, express your own. If need be, agree to disagree.
But this is a fight that is not helpful or healthy. No one, including me, can just make some clever argument and make these dividing lines go away. But each of us can control one thing, and that is how we react and behave.
Show people respect. Just do that one thing.
Don’t make this worse.
Well okay, but I need to see a theory of what disrupting Bernie Sanders events is supposed to accomplish. I understand that they aren’t doing this in order to influence who wins the 2016 election, but I don’t see an affirmative reason of why they are doing it. What’s supposed to be the payoff? I can imagine some arguments but they don’t strike me as very convincing. The correct targets are police departments, prosecutors, state attorneys general, mayors and governors, and maybe Congress. The Justice Department right now is already on the case as much as it can be. Why is Bernie Sanders the target?
The payoff is the enactment of their demands… presumably. (see paragraph 6, ff.)
Whether their means and ends align, or how closely that’s a different discussion altogether.
Right, but how does disrupting Bernie Sanders rallies put pressure on anybody to comply with any of their demands? The Montgomery bus boycott had an obvious cause and effect relationship. The city bus system lost revenue. (Ultimately it was a court ruling that was dispositive, but the sustained action had an effect on the Justices’ minds no doubt.) ACORN blocked traffic to get a specific pothole filled or a street light installed or a vacant lot cleaned up, thereby giving people a feeling of empowerment which could then be taken to a bigger target. Lunch counter sit-ins, filling the Birmingham jails, you name it – all that makes sense, it has a logic behind it. This does not, it’s just making noise, and in the wrong place.
The participants may find it uniquely gratifying.
Yep, that’s about it. The sin of Onan.
See the quote below. They are expressly trying to separate African Americans from the Democratic Party.
Who is “they”? All I see is an article from Green Party member Glen Ford. BAR has always been opposed the Democratic Party.
Is there something wrong with separating this link in any case? If MLK didn’t support Johnson even though he signed civil rights laws he was agitating for, then why should BLM (or any movement) attach themselves at the hip of the D’s?
Stop press. One of the BLM activists that busted up the Sanders rally is a radical Christian who was a supporter of Sarah Palin in high school (not too long ago).
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/progressivesecularhumanist/2015/08/blm-activist-who-shut-down-sanders-i
s-radical-christian-sarah-palin-supporter/
Her handle on twitter is “LSF thot”, and you really need to read her tweets. She seems to be a complete nutjob, and I wish people would stop wasting their time defending her.
Furthermore, whatever her connection with Black Lives Matter, she belongs to a group called Outside Agitators 206.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/08/09/1410408/-Seattle-s-Outside-Agitators-206-why-they-want-to-d
rive-a-wedge-between-BLM-and-Democrats
All of this may be true, and I don’t doubt it for a minute. However, until the “legit” BLM folks disavow these folks who are “rogue elephants”, they will continue to be viewed as BLM actors.
Where are the BLM folks on this? Where are the “black leaders” like Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, etc.?
This is the second time that this hijack shit has gone down, and since there are no consequences except a lot of “tskkkkk” stuff, it is going to happen again. It’s all up-side for these rogue folks – free publicity, legitimacy, fear of the charge of racism, etc. Until someone gets the balls to call these fools out and takes them on, they have the power and the sente.
That’s right, but the problem is that BLM is a movement, not an organization. It seems to me that anybody can call themselves Black Lives Matter.
They are as permeable to anyone, from idiots to provocateurs, as permeable can be.
More to the point, and as many others have noted, Bernie needs to improve his security.
Security, yes. More importantly, a plan is needed. This is now the second time that Bernie has been ambushed by hijacking thieves. It’s a pattern. He needs a plan, so that he can look as if he is in charge. If you get pushed off the stage by this kind of folks, you do not have the ability to lead.
Many folks seem to be of the opinion that this is a contest of ideas. Wrong. This is simply a power game. Sanders has lost control of the situation 2x, and if he does it again, he’s gonna be written off by a lot of folks. He needs to be much firmer, and refuse to allow these thugs to push him around.
The plan is in place. At the Portland rally last night the introductory speaker warned the crowd that there might be a disruption. If one was attempted we should chant, “We Stand United.”
There were a few alleged “BLM” reps in the crowd, but they were lost in the sea of applause and cheering that greeted Bernie, and from where I sat up in the nosebleed section there was no attempt to seize the stage.
Having grown up in the sixties, the next logical question is: Are there lone nuts of color being groomed and aimed towards a stage where Sanders will appear?
The actual Seattle BLM has publicly apologized yesterday
OK, here we go …
http://www.politicususa.com/2015/08/10/real-black-lives-matter-wsnts-activists-publicly-apologize-be
rnie-sanders.html
At this point, my skepticism and contempt for these thief thugs is entirely vindicated. You won’t hear any of those backing the thugs backing down.
Not only were these fuckers thugs, but apparently they are just actors pretending to be thugs. It gets murkier and murkier.
And to those who called me a racist for doubting them, honestly, fuck you morons.
Yeah. Why is it that Bernie seems to be the target? Why not Trump, or any other candidate for that matter? And, there’s speculation that the movement has been co-opted by radical black feminists? Take a look, and tell me what you think, Booman. http://www.ringoffireradio.com/2015/08/progressives-dont-waste-your-money-on-a-dysfunctional-dead-en
d-group-called-blacklivesmatter/
that’s getting into the weeds a little bit.
but it does show the open rejection of socialism as, say, a worker’s solidarity movement.
Why Bernie? Because he hasn’t stopped it.
This is getting to be a cojones deal. Does Bernie have the cojones to do the Sista Solja when it is needed, like RIGHT FUCKING NOW?
The flaw in your analysis. UC Berkeley was already getting radicalized by 1966 via Free Speech Movement etc but the Berkeley City Council was still dominated by Chamber of Commerce types in a fairly standard Town vs Gown standoff. There was also significant spacial disconnect between those parts of the City immediately associated with the University (basically Shattuck Ave up through the Hills) and those of Berkeley’s black community (West Berkeley Flats – W of San Pablo and S of Ashby.) Which is to say you are right that there was little distinction between West Berkeley and West Oakland with the then totally corrupt City of Emeryville wedged in between. It was and to some degree still is poor and black, though now with major gentrification pockets.
It wasn’t until my time in Berkeley in the early 70s that a more leftist element started taking over City government in the battle between Left BCA and Centrist ABC (even then R’s as such had no foothold). And mostly those same BCA activists are now the Berkeley Establishment – Revolutionaries turned politicians (Bates, wife Skinner etc).
Less familiar with Oakland in the 60s but IIRC you had he same divide between Hills (White) and Flats (Black) with power largely on the Hills side.
That is police relations in Berkeley and Oakland were a lot closer to Ferguson with a white cop force patrolling largely black neighborhoods and not even pretending to be Officer Friendly.
Maybe the most important part of your history lesson there for our purposes is that the Republicans were not part of the battle and that these fights were already at the beginning fights on the left and within the left.
Not a bad post. Thanks
The argument over whether or not existing American racism is an epiphenomenon of the late capitalist mode of production, and is destined to disappear when patterns of social relationship are remade in the wake of the revolution, is an old one. A hundred years, anyways.
If you’re inclined to say ‘yes, it is’, then you work for the revolution, and see yourself as addressing the root cause of the problem.
If you’re inclined to say ‘no, it has older, and different causes’, then the entire socialist enterprise is at best a potential tactical, and temporary ally.
It could even be an impediment, insofar as maintaining that ‘the workers have no fatherland’ is not all that far from maintaining ‘all lives matter’.
yeah, and so that raises a question I’ve been pondering, which is how much of this is an ideological battle with socialism from what might be an unexpected quarter and for reasons that most people don’t even understand?
Oakland is the site of two general strikes within living memory — 2011 and 1946, numerous dock worker’s s strikes, etc. Ditto Seattle, although the general strike was much longer ago, they did have the WTO protests.
There’s a live tradition of labor radicalism, anarchism, and organized socialism, on the West Coast that’s stronger than perhaps anywhere else in the country.
It was one of the springs that the movements from the Black Panthers to the peace people blocking trains in the 1960’s, 80’s, 90’s could draw on for strength, and for experience.
So the odds are pretty good that whatever we’re seeing has local, historical roots.
No doubt, it’s just that despite Sanders being the only self-identified socialist in Congress, I just don’t feel like he’s been on the ramparts in an ideological way. It’s feels like he’s been dragged into an argument he didn’t start, but maybe I’m wrong.
This has everything to do with Bernie Sanders and his supporters. They are not bystanders. They’re big, fat, inviting targets.
I told you the Party of Barack Obama could never, ever become a Party of Bernie Sanders. Not happening.
Well, this thread has certainly been lively, Martin. I hope we’re able to play a part in reaching the necessary level of mutual respect that you are pleading for.
It’s ain’t always easy, but I’m seeking to increase my consistency of respectful discussion within our Frog Pond, and with the larger progressive movement. Thanks for your model and encouragement there. I know that my disagreements with others on our side, save for the worst of our trolls, are nothing compared to our mutual disagreements with our mutual adversaries in today’s right-wing movement. My biggest disagreements with others here are with Ponders who seem to drift away from that fact.
Really, you are seeking to ” increase my consistency of respectful discussion “? Well, glory be!!
Does that involve calling people racists? I suppose that the charge of racism, ever quick at the liberal keyboard, is ALWAYS an acceptable rhetorical device. Yep, if you can’t think of a single solitary reasonable comment, just whip out that ol’ “You a vile racist” comment. Hah!! That put me in my place, ya sure, you betcha.
Now, getting back to your avowed “increase”, where does that stand at this point?
dataguy, I see you as one of the trolls I was alluding to.
It was pointed out to you on this thread that your use of the word “stealing” was wildly inappropriate to describe actions you and I agree were counterproductive to the BLM movement, and you aggressively tripled down on the word, along with all the “cojones” garbage. Frankly, I’m surprised you’re offended, given your defiant voyages into these offensive rhetorical swamps.
All this said, I’d concede that I wasn’t showing the highest amount of self-awareness by making those posts consecutively.
Well, events have shown now that you are full of shit. The real BLM has called for an apology.
I know one thing. When someone like you calls someone else a racist, that’s due to your own inability to really understand their argument. The use of the racism word means “I’m a stupid fucking moron.”
Which you are.
Worth considering, from Shaun King:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/08/13/1411748/-Several-members-of-the-Congressional-Black-Caucus-
support-Black-Lives-Matter-speech-interruptions#
While it may be inconvenient for people attending a rally when they are forced to hear about causes that matter to African Americans instead of hearing from their favorite political candidate, several prominent members of the Congressional Black Caucus strongly disagreed. Speaking to The Hill:
“They really are speaking to the issues, and we’re really long overdue responding to those issues,” Rep. Sheila Jackson Lee (D-Texas) said in a phone interview. “They’ve been pointed, nonviolent and strong, and I’m not offended.
“They’re asking for nothing more than to lift up a system to treat them with justice.”
Rep. Hank Johnson, who has been outspoken on police brutality in America, also expressed his bold support for the practice:
“For Black Lives Matter activists, the issue is literally a matter of life and death as evidenced by the continued killing of unarmed Black men and women by police officers across the nation,” Johnson said in an email. “When presidential candidates fail to acknowledge how the current criminal system detrimentally impacts Black lives, they [the activists] resort to disruptive tactics to force attention to the issue.
“While disruption is uncomfortable, it does result in candidates acknowledging and addressing the issue with policy proposals,” he added. “When that happens, the need to protest is abated.”
Personally, I concur with Rep. Johnson. Black folk aren’t interrupting speeches because it’s cool. It’s not cool. It’s damn uncomfortable for everybody, but what’s worse is the reality that police brutality and racial injustice in this nation are on the rise and little effort to combat it is being seen on the national level.
If this is what it takes to force the issues into the forefront, so be it
.”
is projecting. Bernie was chosen because he is getting big crowds and press, and has lousy security.
I seriously doubt BLM is sitting around worrying about the contradictions surrounding involvement in a movement with the white working class to bring down capitalism.
And I would be wrong about that:
From the website of one of people who interrupted the rally:
http://blackagendareport.com/democrats_to_bury_black_lives_matter_under_election
If this is reflective of a part of BLM, then there is no way to meet them halfway.
They WANT to disrupt Bernie’s campaign – as they see it as a threat.
Which makes Al look like a complete idiot, but is also pretty troubling.
“To begin with, if you’re a white progressive supporter of Bernie Sanders and you consider yourself an advocate of the goals of #blacklivesmatter, the main thing you need to do differently is to stop expecting the anti-police violence movement to operate with or even acknowledge any kind of electoral priority or strategy.”
This is an odd statement. They have now twice disrupted Bernie Sanders speeches. Are they unaware that he is running for president? And what kind of children do you think they are, that they want societal change but have no coherent thoughts about politics?
I guess if your solution is “Kumbaya,” then you have to excuse BLM this way. These nitwits are in reality looking to throw the election to the GOP in 2016, an event that is otherwise unlikely. If democrats make peace with them it only becomes more likely.
The only effective strategy (for those who want both economic and social justice) is for democrats to have effective security teams to keep BLM off the stage. No bullying their way onto the stage = no story. No story = no worsening split on the left and no white backlash in 2016.
Of course, Hillary could just “Sista Soljah” them. Maybe they’re being so cartoonishly awful to that exact end.
I don’t see a ‘movement’ at all. What I see are attention seeking grifters.
You’ll see.
.
Even since the last time this happened Sanders had started talking more about issues that blm says they care about. So I basically don’t know what more they expect him to do?
Got to be honest I have no idea what Giordano is talking about and that’s by choice. If I get frustrated by your treatment of Obama, he turns that up to 10000.
Also for the record I felt rather the same way about the heckler and the code pinkers.
Finally, I’m brown and there is definitely a history of tension between black and brown includin stuff that happened in the Civil rights movements. So I find it spurious that he’s trying to speak for all non whites here.
I guess tldr fuck giordano, he’s an Obama syccophant and he sure as fuck does not speak or even get all non white progressives.
Are you saying that you’re making a choice not to understand?
I’m saying it’s been a long time since I’ve believed Giordano was an honest actor.
I’m saying I don’t need him to understand and he doesnt understand as much as he tells himself in the mirror each morning.
I know a lot of people in the political world, and Al is an honest actor.
Then he has some serious delusions when it comes to Obama.
Look I understand why it’s happening. It’s not that hard. How many times have the Dems betrayed us on wall street or iraq or whatever, and betraying blacks on this doesn’t only make their lives shitty, it ends them entirely. And there’s been less progress on this front than almost any other. And Dems expect to be lauded for the crumbs they doled out and say “wait.” Mean while people like HRC live in segregated communities and say fuck all about it. It’s not surprising a not trivial number are pissed.
But I still think what happened is dumb bullshit. The most actual progress that’s going to happen is with Sanders. Performance art to draw attention sure, but Sanders was beginning to more seriously engage.
I’d like to know what kind of planning goes into an action like this. Did BLM reach out in any way to the Sanders campaign, or to the organizers of the event? Did they ask to address the crowd, and was the request denied? Maybe they felt they had no choice but to crash the party, but is that even true?
A DKOS diary suggests these particular protestors were actually from https://outsideagitators206.org a more extreme faction than BLM. So it’s possible BLM did engage successfully but can’t control these factions.
Come on folks, let’s get real. This is not even ratfucking. It’s just stupider-than-stupid radical “movement” agitation. Think of Outside Agitators 206 as a kind of black FDL on steroids.
None of this promotes the cause of BLM in any way. Stop breaking your heads trying to fathom clever rationales for these actions. Stop apologizing for assholes.
Once Sanders back away from the podium, what I took to be one of the event organizers/sponsors offered to give the women time after Sanders spoke. They kept screaming at him. He asked them how much time they wanted and they continued screaming. They wanted the stage and they wanted it now and for as long as they wanted it — which presumably meant that it would mean no speech from Sanders.
This is correct. I won’t speak about my role in the event, other than to note that my friend and boss was the previous speaker. Rally organizers knew there would be a #BLM action but did not know it would involve the stage or OA206, which is a strictly local faction that has a history (some good, some not) of disrupting city council meetings and the like.
Every effort was made by organizers to negotiate or accommodate, but tactically the activists were after bigger fish (ie, local and national media) and the people physically present at the time were pretty much irrelevant props. Honestly, if I’m wearing my direct action organizer hat and not passing judgment on the worthiness of the goal, that makes complete tactical sense – but also wearing that that, berating the crowd, also sure to be videotaped, was a seriously damaging distraction and the kind of self-indulgent lack of discipline that kills movements in the US. In countries where the cops routinely kill activists, that sort of primal scream therapy would never be tolerated.
Lastly, Boo and others are correct that local context is important here. Seattle continues to have one of the most thuggish, out-of-control police departments in the country, even though it’s currently under a DoJ-ordered, court-imposed “reform” process. Our city’s Democratic establishment has fought reforms and backed the cops (and their Neanderthalic union) to the hilt. In 2010 we had a police killing of a Native American homeless man, John T. Williams, that made Ferguson, Eric Garner, et al look tame – dude was walking down the street carving wood (he was a woodcarver) with a three-inch knife, cop pulls up, jumps out of his car, and shoots him. No charges, for that or any other local police killing in modern history (over 200 in the last 40 years). And gentrification is now pushing – intentionally, many people feel – blacks out of their historic neighborhoods and in many cases out of the city altogether. Seattle remains one of the most racially segregated cities in the country, and it’s white environmentalists, using the climate change-inspired need for “density,” who are leading the charge in remaking Seattle as a much whiter, San Francisco-style ark for the wealthy.
Short version: The antagonism of local non-white street activists to the white Democratic establishment – good liberals all, in the worst Phil Ochs “Love Me…” sense of the term** – goes deep and is well-earned. The only relationship to presidential politics is that a lot of people are watching an event like yesterday’s. I still think the action was tactically idiotic, but the anger that fueled it is real and well-earned. And while Seattle has its local history and context, so does every other big, Democratic-controlled city in the country. That’s the problem.
**And remember that “Love Me I’m a Liberal” concerns itself almost entirely with racial politics. Not much has changed in a half-century.
Very helpful local context. Thank you Geov.
yes, very helpful, thanks
Personally I think density to fight climate change would be more effective in making small cities bigger than in making big cities even bigger.
They expect him to quit and let Hillary be coronated.
Giordano’s kind of a dick, though, isn’t he? I mean, I suppose I do live in a white college educated ghetto myself, but I’m not sure why that disqualifies me from “getting to” hear Bernie Sanders at a Bernie Sanders rally.
Of course, I don’t recognize myself in any of his description beyond where I live. I’m not a Sanders fan boy, anyway, and nobody could have seen my dreadful behavior toward Obama, because there has been none to see. It’s sort of the same feeling I get when I hear Zionists insists that criticism of Israel can only be motivated by anti-semitism.
But then I could just point out that Giordano isn’t following your one basic rule: Show respect. Instead we get stuff that sounds like dialog from the Sopranos:
What mistake? Not kissing their ass? Or is the mistake opposing HRC? I think that’s it and I wouldn’t vote for her if she were the last person on Earth. Dam int! I’ll vote for TRUMP over her.
And as for those assholes at BlackLivesMatter. No money, no petitions, no nothing!
BLM has jumped the shark. I’ll not support their moronic cause any further. All lives matter. I’m not doing the racist Black Lives Matter in the future.
Do “all lives matter?” How many men, women, and children did US bombs kill last week?
To the anti-abortionists, the life of every zygote and fetus matters to them, Not to me.
How many children did US bombs kill last week?
Not a single one, unless you are talking about ISIS fighters.
What kind of crack you smoking?
Hundreds of Civilians Killed by US-led Bombing Campaign of ISIS in Iraq/Syria
Thanks — I do get weary some days of often having to look up and provide an appropriate link for those they I erroneously assumed would be well informed and if not to do their own search.
Remember, if they’re aged ~16 and male, they’re labeled a “combatant” by the Pentagon.
So no civilians were killed!
And it was only US trained anti-ISIS forces that called in for air support and told US pilots where to drop those bombs. So really, the US is more like bullet manufacturers than the guys that plug those bullets into rooms full of school children.
Casualty counts in the middle of a battle are often used for propaganda purposes. And every dead person is a civilian killed unjustly, right?
Even if we ignore your silly comments completely ignoring independent sources for casualty counts, the Pentagon has the civilian count of 2. So even taking the Pentagon at their word (lol), you’re still wrong.
WhatEVER, Dude/dudette.
I am sure that Yazidis are with your bleeding heart and wonderfully compassionate view. Also the thousands of Christian women, who have been pressed into forced marriage after watching their husbands get butchered.
I admire you. You are now an ISIS partisan. Super.
I’m been hearing this kind of ignorant shit since the days of the Vietnam War.
As MLK, Jr said in 1967, the USG is the largest purveyor of violence in the world and it has yet to change.
I am a middle-aged white man, and I am infuriated by an argument made by many liberals, including many defenders of the Democratic POTUS candidates, in response to the BLM movement. “But we’re the ones who are trying to do something about economic inequality, improved public schools and voting rights for all and criminal justice reform! And the Republican candidates are opposed to all the things you care about!”
First off, we can’t say that our Democratic leaders have been terribly effective overall in combating these inequalities, and they usually don’t place them prominently and publicly on their top legislative or POTUS campaign priorities, so there’s a limited amount of credit they can get on this issue.
But, while many leaders in BLM do speak to the need for major and comprehensive reforms in multiple sectors of government, the most basic thing the BLM movement is calling for is for law enforcement officers to stop killing African-Americans, and to hold LEO’s who needlessly kill African-Americans criminally accountable. To get political leaders to say they’ll work to do something about this right away does not require them to pass these larger reforms.
For example, our Party’s leaders can demand justice for the murderers of Eric Garner, Tamir Rice, Walter Scott, Sandra Bland, Michael Brown and so many others, and call for the larger reforms, without having to wait for the day our movement has enough political power to see those reforms passed. Those Black Americans were all murdered, but we have massive institutional barriers standing in the way of charging and convicting LEO’s for the murders they are responsible for.
And, when Democratic Party leaders and other liberals/progressives respond to the murders of Garner and so many others by quickly getting into the lack of equal educational and job opportunities for African-Americans and the unequal enforcement of the laws by peace officers, they are actually unresponsive to the most urgent call from the BLM movement as I hear it. Black lives matter! The movement is working to win a more broader set of changes, but at their core they are saying “the police must ending the lives of members of our communities.”
An example: the Justice Department report on the Brown murder. The conclusion was that it was not provable that Ferguson police officer Wilson violated Brown’s civil rights, the only thing that the Feds could have charged Wilson for as I understand it. Unfortunately, the discussion of whether Wilson was chargeable is a legal one which is bound by the Federal civil rights laws which exist and the historical interpretations of those laws. Those laws and their enforcement can be seen here as institutionally racist, enabling the continuing murders of African-Americans by representatives of our governments.
So much turned in the Justice findings on whether Brown may have tried to wrestle the officer’s gun away from him, and whether his hands were up and his back turned to Wilson at the moment the officer fired the deadly bullets. To me, the vital facts were that Michael Brown’s body was over 152 feet from the spot Wilson stood when he fired the kill shots, and Wilson was in a tactical position which would have allowed him to back away from the unarmed Brown in multiple directions, and backup had already been called and arrived seconds after Wilson murdered Brown.
I may have to accept that the Justice Department was right on the current law in its findings on the Brown murder. But, in this case, the Federal law is not just an ass, but an institutionally racist ass at that. (Let’s not get into the explicitly racist local justice process for now.) When our nation’s laws and their enforcements stray so far from morality and equality and justice that they countenance murder after extrajudicial murder committed in the name of our own governments, it’s absolutely necessary to continually hit the streets in pure desperation, and it’s quite apparently necessary to inconvenience liberals like myself from time to time and make us uncomfortable.
As a model for the larger discusion BooMan is bringing with this post, I can’t pretend that I find the actions and statements made by Willaford and Johnson yesterday in Seattle very sound on a tactical basis. But nor can I defend all those made by Sanders and his campaign, nor can I defend the reaction from some in the crowd. It’s important to absorb what BooMan lands on here: show people respect. Each as individuals, and within their chosen groups. The jerks in the crowd who said the most hostile things at the Social Security/Medicare celebration yesterday where Sanders was beginning to speak are no more representative of white liberals than Willaford and Johnson’s actions were for the larger BLM movement. But Black Americans are being murdered, over and over again, by LEO’s. We’re now seeing it happen on video, over and over again. Yet few appropriate levels of accountability have been found for their murderers, yet. Very few institutional changes in response to their murders have been made, yet.
I understand the desperation Willaford and Johnson were displaying yesterday. I respect them and their movement, even as I cringe at some of the things they said and did. But something needs to change, and change quickly, and the more we can get the broader leftist movement to effectively prioritize this, the quicker it will happen.
… the most basic thing the BLM movement is calling for is for law enforcement officers to stop killing African-Americans, and to hold LEO’s who needlessly kill African-Americans criminally accountable.
What’s the proposed actions to reduce LEO shootings of AAs. If they have any, there is no quick and easy fix. There are a million little pieces to this; some of it far beyond the jurisdiction and control of police departments. I was once picked up, transported to the central station, and detained for over three hours. As I was being released by a detective I lost it for a moment because there had been zero reasons for picking me up in the first place and yelled at him. His response, “One more word out of your mouth little lady and I’ll have you locked up.” In that moment, it didn’t matter if he had the legal right to do that. He had the power to do so and my big mouth wasn’t worth sitting in a jail cell for even ten minutes.
wrt “accountable” and your examples, the Tamir Rice shooting is in the hands of the prosecutor and Walter Scott’s killer has been indicted for murder. Same with Bland hung herself. Whether we like it or not, the decision was made that there will be no prosecutions in the Garner case. (And yes, the legal system we live under requires us to defer to those that have the benefit of all the available information and not just what appears on TV.) There’s been indictments in the deaths of Samuel Dubose and Freddie Gray.
It would be completely inappropriate to charge or convict based on what a victim’s family, friends, etc. want and not the evidence that is available. Doubt that few rational people don’t see the Brown situation as having been a close call. And for very good reasons, when in doubt the scale tips in favor of LEOs.
Justice is not served with lynch mobs against LEOs anymore than it was served the NYC lynch mob in the Central Park jogger case. (That’s why Bill [Kunstler] said he was engaged in this case. He told me that. I remember close friends saying, “Rape trumps politics. You shouldn’t be defending this guy.” And Bill saying, “You don’t know that he’s guilty. They didn’t let him talk to anybody. A fourteen-year old kid. Kids have rights too.” Bill wasn’t simply defending an accused rapist; he was defending the rights of all of us to be treated fairly by a system with almost infinite power.)
Watch the video in Florida man tasered … Was the cop right or wrong?
I agree that there’s no easy fixes which can be implemented next week. But “the legal system we live under” is giving license not just to unjustified detainments, outrageous as those are to you and others, but the extrajudicial murders of Americans as a result of encounters with peace officers.
I would use the Bland death as an example. She killed herself, you say. But she was under custody, and the officers overseeing her custody were responsible for her safety. They may not have murdered her with their own hands, but Sandra Bland is dead in primarily due to their actions and inactions. People should not die, even of their own hand, while in custody for three days over a traffic ticket. Sandra wasn’t almost “locked up”, she was locked up.
Freddie Gray’s death is of a similar type, with the officers’ responsibilities appearing to have been much more malicious and direct. We’ve been waiting for justice for the 12-year-old Rice for a long, long time now, and no indictments have been made. The police actions which we watch on film result in the killing of Tamir are not morally defensible at all. If they are found legally defensible, as the murders of Brown, Garner and so many others were, then this among the many, many ways the legal system we live under must be changed as quickly as possible.
the officers overseeing her custody were responsible for her safety.
Not responsible for protection from suicide. Recent SCOTUS unanimous decision on this.
While I view the Rice case as clear cut, those replica assault weapons and hand guns are not favoring the victims. While engaged in additional mayhem, a replica gun was a factor in the shooting of the white guy in the TN theater.
IMHO, the Walter and Gray cases are the most robust. The first because cops are not to chase down and shoot a driver in the back for a minor vehicle infraction absent reasonable suspicion of the driver being wanted for a serious crime. That’s not an obscure or difficult to implement policy. The Gray case potentially opens a huge window on detainee treatment and cracks the “blue line.” Multiple LEOs involved and none were required to make split second decisions wrt to their own and public safety.
Like all of us, LEOs don’t always detect an imminent threat — Las Vegas and NYC cops didn’t have a clue before they were killed. How often do they get it right when we in the general public would fail? I don’t know. But in simulated environments, the general public is quicker to push the shoot button against a AA “actor” than LEOs are. So, their training does make them a little bit less racist in threat situations than the rest of us.
This made me laugh:
“Not responsible for protection from suicide. Recent SCOTUS unanimous decision on this.”
In that decision, SCOTUS perfectly represented and enforced institutional police brutality in the United States. What is morally unacceptable must be made to be legally unacceptable. This is the current system. The current system must be made to change.
Re. LEO’s doing better than the average citizen, well, that’s damning with faint praise. I don’t want average Americans empowered with law enforcement; I want that privilege to be reserved for exemplary people who are trained that they must prevent needless deaths, and not trained how to defend themselves from responsibility from needless deaths. It’s unavoidable that they will be fallible humans, but LEO’s should be punished appropriately for their most consequential and avoidable errors.
Bottom line: you can’t have thousands of extrajudicial killings of citizens by LEO’s responded to by a dozen or so indictments and fewer convictions, partnered with the recent morally indefensible videos of officers shooting and strangling African-Americans to death, with most of the officers involved in those recorded incidents escaping punishment.
Oh, so now the Clinton and Obama appointments to the SC aren’t any good either? Then we shouldn’t worry our little heads about who will be President when the next vacancy occurs.
That’s not what I’m saying. If new laws and regulations were passed by Congress, then the Court’s considerations would be different. If, as you secondarily claimed, even Ruth Bader Ginsburg was unable to find for the dead person in the case you mention, there must be a pretty poorly formed set of laws governing this area.
And, this is hardly the only type of case heard by the Supreme Court which will be important to you, me, and others in our movement. We could have the best policies imaginable passed by future Congresses and signed by future Presidents, including in the areas you most care about, and a bad SCOTUS could wipe them all away, as they did to much of the New Deal.
Sure there are easy fixes. The chiefs just don’t want to implement them. Order cops to stop killing innocent people. Order cops to stop lying on their reports. Refuse to be part of the warrant shakedown of the public for revenues.
Behaving as the high school civics books say government operates fixes it.
It is the cynicism of our current political culture that tolerates and hides these abuses.
Maybe we should stop teaching high school civics altogether until the system behaves like the book. </snark>
While I don’t much like to point to individual alternative scenario incidents, this one: Pistol-whipped Alabama police officer mocked on Twitter, Facebook as bloody pictures surface is on topic as to a LEO not fully perceiving a threat.
(Do wish people in all communities would refrain from cheering for and against any participants in a violent situation involving a LEO. It’s not helpful in collecting all the facts and leads to greater resentments on all sides.)
Well, this is an interesting incident that is chosen here to draw into a discussion of the Black Lives Matter movement.
So, what do we see in the linked news story? The asshole who pistol-whipped the cop was taken into custody immediately. Will the asshole be punished severely for his offense? I think that is quite certain, as is true for essentially all criminals who assault officers.
OTOH, are police officers who commit extrajudicial killings of Americans, disproportionately of African-Americans, almost certain to avoid any criminal consequence at all for killing one of the people they were sworn to protect?
It’s also amusing that we are brought reporting of an incident where the local FAP President essentially tells the reporter, “Better a dead citizen than an assaulted cop.” He goes on to tell the reporter that he “blame(s) a national climate of poor police-community relations for the officer’s injuries”, and takes personally the stupid comments from two non-criminal assholes on social media to really cement the feelings of persecution which will be used to justify the next incident of poor police practices, up to and including extrajudicial killings of citizens. The projection and lack of self-awareness and healthy morality are astonishing.
It’s often a little tougher to be an LEO right now. It has been far tougher to be an African-American for all the centuries of their history.
I thought my comment was clear in that I reference that story for the simple reason that this LEO appears to have followed SOP in calling for back-up, but appears not to have fully recognized the eminent threat. It’s very easy for a LEO to err on the side of heightened alert or not heightened enough. Maybe not enough of them are smart and environmentally perceptive enough for the job, but they come from the talent pool that’s available.
Not interested in discussing other aspects of this one, and particularly not based on initial and preliminary reports. The race of the participants is also irrelevant to my point.
Yeah, right! Bernie sanders is part of a secret cable empowering cops to kill black people. Yeah, sure.
“To me, the vital facts were that Michael Brown’s body was over 152 feet from the spot Wilson stood when he fired the kill shots”
No, his body was 152 feet from the SUV where the incident began, but shots fired at SUV were from when Brown was at the SUV. Casings from the remaining shots were much closer to Brown’s body. Wilson was chasing Brown, when Brown turned around towards Wilson.
It appears Wilson was between 117 and 148 feet away from Brown when the officer shot Brown:
https:/firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/11/20/everything-know-shooting-michael-brown-darren-wilson
“It was more than just a couple, but I don’t think it was many more than that,” Belmar said of the shots fired. The shooting, he said, took place roughly 35 feet from the officer’s vehicle.”
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/11/21/1346374/-BREAKING-VIDEO-Police-Lied-Mike-Brown-was-killed-1
48-feet-away-from-Darren-Wilson-s-SUV#
And, my remembrance of the scene is that there was plenty of room for the officer to retreat in multiple directions, and backup officers arrived less than a minute after Brown was shot dead. My view is that Wilson’s actions may not have risen to the level of prosecutable murder or a Federal civil rights violation, but the officer’s actions did display bad police practices and a disregard for the life of someone he was sworn to protect, a citizen who appears to have behaved very stupidly but had no weapon on him at the time.
Many ask why BLM stages protests at Sanders events and not those of other candidates. Probably this is because BLMs chosen audience is white progressives. BLM is trying to raise consciousness in a group they think will be receptive. Their message: we will no longer be ignored.
I like that phrase…’raise consciousness’. How does one group go about doing that to another group?
Maybe by example?
.
Sometimes. Sometimes stuff like this can work to raise consciousness too. (This is a picture of one of the protestors.)
Well, if you’re looking to get some positive attention from a group you think might be receptive to your viewpoint, you don’t shit on their front porch.
OK, now suppose climate activists start crashing BLM events. Here we see them heckling Hillary Clinton, and I would have to say that they do have a point. With climate change we’re really at a point where the best we can hope for is to limit the damage, and the number of lives at stake is far greater than the number taken by police violence.
Wouldn’t it be fun to watch two sets of activists fighting over whose priorities are more desperately urgent?
I don’t think you’re going to have any choice but to watch. The “Democrats in Disarray” stories write themselves, and folk memories of Miami in 1972, and Chicago in 1968, take very little effort to revive.
Direct actions don’t raise conssciousness, they provoke conscience. Only if those confronted by direct action listen to their conscience does it raise consciousness. More frequently it raises consciousness of third-party observers who are able to interpret and mediate the issues involved in a way that provides an opening to political action. That’s the way that the civil rights movement changed the views of white Southerners. Certainly white folks of good will were not happy when Jackie Robinson sat in the restaurant of the Greeenville (SC) Municipal Airport in 1959 and asked to be served before he went to an NAACP meeting to get an award. All of the “better tactic” comments applied to #blacklivesmatter were applied to Jackie Robinson by white folks who later proved to be opening doors. He had it seems made life a little more complicated for them. Their consciences became a little more troubled (although they would not or could not admit it at the time) by the lack of urgency in desegregation of accommodations of people at least of Jackie Robinson’s stature. A lot of young white Dodger fans had cognitive dissonance.
It is not that they personally will no longer be ignored but that the matter at hand is so urgent that it can no longer be ignored. To the extent that it is personally that they will no longer be ignored, it is also representative of not only blacks but also women, young people, and ordinary citizens face to face with elected official who demand no longer to be ignored.
Trump is mobilizing people purely on the identification with him in the narrative that the media is trying to ignore him and that he will no longer be ignored. That’s his sole shtick. That’s what taps into the anger. That also is marketing rather than direct political action.
If #blacklivesmatter has chosen white progressives as its audience, it’s because they presume that they at least have a conscience. They already are clear among their past transactions who doesn’t: police, media, public officials, ….
With regard to the analogy of BLM and the progressive response to the civil rights movement, I agree. That’s what I was thinking I was thinking when I made my comment.
So, they’re coming to us to encourage us to feel more guilt and choose to be more active? OK, that’s a lovely idea. But my experience as a teacher tells me that being rude and calling people names is rarely an effective way to make them want to do the right thing. Once people become defensive, they close their minds and their hearts. I can’t imagine that these protesters are unaware of this reality, but I have no idea how they are justifying it to themselves.
I honestly want to support BLM, and I want to understand what they hope to accomplish. Is it asking to much for them to explain what they are doing?
The one thing you didn’t mention that I think might be relevant is that we have a Democratic president who came to the conclusion that leaders of many liberal organizations cared about monetizing (or just preserving for the slightly less cynical than me) their access to his administration more than anything else and so was able to mute criticism from them by giving them a “seat at the table” in return for silence about the various faults of his administration. Aka, “the veal pen”
The most likely explanation as to why only Sanders events and not Clinton’s have been disrupted is probably just because frankly right now the logistics of disrupting Sanders events is a lot easier than Clinton’s. But still, I think that you can’t really overlook the possibility that there is in fact gross politics going on just because we agree that the issue BLM raises is valid and important. I am not saying the BLM has been offered a “seat at the table” in the Clinton campaign, but hey, it would be the smart thing for her to do.
It was an event celebrating the anniversary of the passage of social security that Senator Sanders was asked to speak at. I would argue that Whether you agree with the tactics of the three women grabbed the microphone (for the record I don’t), I think an event celebrating the anniversary of the passage of Social Security was exactly the right event for people of color to make their voices heard loud and clear. Why? Because in order for FDR to get the Southern Democratic votes he needed to pass social security the bill was designed in a way to exclude people of color, in particular African-Americas. Much like FDR had to let anti-lynching legislation die and had to design many of his job programs to also exclude people of color in order to get those same votes for the New Deal legislation he wanted.
Given that I think people of color, in particular African-Americans are right to say we will not wait our turn again.
A point which the disrupters made, lucidly and forcibly…
Or not.
We’re watching people talk past each other. It’s a reciprocal situation.
Probably true that the Seattle BLM — my guess — had no idea either that Bernie’s rally was going to mark the SS and Medicare anniversaries, but also doubt they knew of the tradeoffs FDR made back then at the expense of black folks.
Further suspect that even had they known those two facts, they would still have been disinclined to meet w the Bernie camp to discuss a way their views could be heard responsibly while letting Bernie talk.
Frankly all I heard was a lot of emotionalism and demands and sloganeering with a definite 60s Radical flavor. Severe absolutists — Meet All Our List of Demands First, then we’ll sit down and talk …
It was an event marking the anniversary of social security that Bernie was one of the speakers at. Now today’s event in Seattle was a Bernie Sanders rally.
And there has been no corrective actions and progress on the bargain FDR was forced into accepting over the past seventy odd years? Okay — make that over the subsequent thirty odd years because over the following thirty odd years, all but the upper ten to twenty percent have been getting the shaft regardless of color.
changes but that doesn’t negate the history that Social Security was designed in a way to exclude people of color. That they were essentially told to wait their turn. History needs to be remembered lest it be repeated.
It also makes me wonder how African-Americans feel about the meme repeated most often by white progressives that Obama needs to be more like FDR. After all FDR didn’t compromise and he welcomed their hate while Obama is the caver-in-chief. Not only is that an inaccurate reading of history but it also downplays that FDR bargained away the rights and protections of people of color more than once to get the votes he needed. To me it has an air of FDR, a white man, compromising away rights and protections for people of color was okay because the end (Social Security, New deal jobs programs) justified the means while Obama making compromises that gets us an imperfect solution to health coverage makes him weak and stupid even thought that imperfect solution has been a big benefit to people of color.
Wouldn’t FDR had a stronger hand if more progressive white voters and AA voters outside the south weren’t controlled by the GOP? Easy to overlook that the GOP dominated the AA vote until 1948. While there were only three AA US Senators before 1993, all of them were Republicans.
As for “first taking care of those that brought you to the dance,” didn’t FDR do that?
Thus, when one reflects upon historical facts, it is inappropriate not include the full context. FDR-Truman-JFK-LBJ did reformulate the Democratic Party, but that effort took decades and at the end to the wilderness years of the Democratic Party.
btw — Medicare didn’t discriminate and in fact all those white hospitals were told in no uncertain terms that they were to be open to all or no Medicare dollars. (Medicaid was a bit more complicated because of the state dollars and program administration.)
But what I have seen from many a progressive, in particular white progressives, is that Obama doesn’t get that same benefit of context and that is exactly my point.
For example, I see people say he should have had a bigger stimulus ignoring that he had to essentially bribe 3 Republican senators to get the stimulus he got. Or the ACA where his 60 vote block lasted for all of 2-3 months and included the likes of Lieberman and Baucus.
If that kind of double standard is unsettling to me then I wonder how unsettling it must be to people of color.
Obama was into “bi-partisanship;” FDR not so much.
Do you seriously think that FDR or LBJ wouldn’t have taken recalcitrant Democratic members of Congress to the woodshed if their agendas were going to pass? Obama got the stimulus and ACA that he wanted and Lieberman and Baucus served their purpose. Baucus was rewarded with the Ambassordorship to China. And Joe kept his control of Senate committees.
It’s really not that difficult to unseat most members of Congress today if the one cracking the whip is willing to lose a DINO seat to a real Republican (or a RINO to a real Democrat if the WH, Senate, and/or House is controlled by a Republican).
So, no it’s not a double standard. There was no practical way that FDR could oust his southern DEM base. Much less do so and retain any executive power. (Recall, his time was before the Imperial President became entrenched.) Also unlike Obama who did choose his VP, Garner was foisted on FDR as his VP for his first two terms.
Because he wanted anti-lynching legislation (and Eleanor really wanted it) and he bargained it away for some New Deal programs.
There is also that both LBJ and FDR hard large majorities in the legislature while Obama never did. Not to mention a decent sized chunk of the New Deal was later declared unconstitutional by the Supreme Court. That means every President since has had restrictions on their power, in particular when it comes to creating and funding new programs, restrictions that FDR didn’t have until the courts weighed in.
Frankly your justifications on why LBJ, and in particular FDR were fighters and Obama isn’t is exactly the type of double standard I find troubling. Like saying Obama got exactly the stimulus he wanted while ignoring he had to bribe three Republicans to even get the dang thing passed. Like ignoring that Lieberman and Baucus both knew they were swing votes and they couldn’t be bribed or punished into compliance.
While anti-lynching legislation would have been the right thing to do in FDR’s time, it was legally difficult prior to civil rights legislation and SCOTUS decisions. Homicide/murder are still mostly legal matters for the states to handle.
There is also that both LBJ and FDR hard large majorities in the legislature while Obama never did.
Both, particularly for FDR, majorities were dependent on the southern racist vote. Actually a feat, given their time, that they managed to pass legislation that wasn’t wholly racist. (White housekeepers and farm workers didn’t fare any better under SS, etc. than AA did.)
Well — since neither you nor I know exactly what Obama really wanted in the stimulus it’s not all that productive to debate it. Although, I do think I’m on firmer ground considering his appointees and major donors. Don’t know what data/facts you’re referencing for your position.
Interesting that you conclude that it was easier for Obama to bribe three Republicans than a couple of Democrats. Perhaps true. But begs the question of why those Democrats paid no price? That’s not exactly how one cements one’s power.
Both, in particular LBJ, were instrumental in building their congressional majorities. Obama inherited his from the 50 state strategy and GOP scandals and flubs. And what did he do on that front as soon as elected? He junked the 50 strategy and Howard Dean, and hired a lot of the prior administration’s Republican appointees.
This That means every President since has had restrictions on their power, in particular when it comes to creating and funding new programs, restrictions that FDR didn’t have until the courts weighed in. is confused.
SCOTUS was knocking down New Deal legislation before full implementation. It changed for his policies after a change in the court. FDR didn’t have nearly as much of a free hand as later presidents have had — in part because of the changes in the court and in part because Congress often punts to the POTUS instead of exercising its constitutional authority.
Well you might say LBJ inherited his congressional majority from Barry Goldwater. All he had to do was show up often enough in public in a reasonably sober and sane condition in 1964.
And what did Johnson do as soon as he got elected? Started hisself an unnecessary and unpopular war and got his party nearly unelected as majority two years later after arranging to seriously weaken and defund the DNC just in time for a record GOP near-landslide in 1966.
So much for LBJ “building congressional majorities.” Actually a more accurate interpretation is he always acted, starting as ML in the 50s and continuing as prez, to organize congress in ways that benefitted him more than the party. Even the mostly apologist Rbt Caro acknowledges this.
Sorry, but both FDR and LBJ had working progressive majorities (LBJ’s when considering the mod-lib wing of the GOP) and so had it far easier in working to pass legislation than did Obama. My objection to O on domestic has mostly to do with his starting out the legislative process with too-modest goals instead of reaching higher. “Yes We Can” in the campaign became “Perhaps We Could” once he reached the Oval.
I think there is a double standard.
Social Security had majority GOP support in both the house and the Senate
Medicare had majority GOP support in the House, and significant support in the Senate.
Obama got no GOP support for the ACA and the stimulus package.
Obama faced a much tougher political situation than either FDR or LBJ in some respects. Progressives who accuse him of not measuring up forget the difference.
Again, you’re dismissing all the years of building a political power base LBJ engaged in before becoming POTUS and FDR did mostly after becoming POTUS. I’m not dismissing the fact that Republicans today are mostly batshit crazy, but it’s been decades since most of them weren’t.
Democrats have over-learned from the success of electing JFK President. Sure, a young, attractive, and articulate politician can beat an old GOP turd. But combine the limited political experience and skills of these young winners, their congressional power base either isn’t their own and/or is too small to get around the congressional turd of both parties. Carter was a few years older but was both a DC outsider and more politically green than the others. Clinton and Obama were too politically immature. So much so that both lost Congress after they were elected. That limits the DEN talent pool for congressional leadership development, but as much if not more seriously, authentic liberals were kicked to the back bench and told to shut up.
Thus we end up with the congressional megaphones in the hands of the likes of Schumer, Emmanuel, etc.
Again, Lyndon worked to build a political power base in Congress to serve Lyndon, not the party. A personal power base. He really wasn’t (surprisingly for those who haven’t really read the literature about this guy) much of a party partisan. He just came along in a time in his state where to be successful in politics you had to be a Dem.
As for experience and maturity, what did his slightly more experience in Congress and older age get him when it came to deciding on the most important issue a president can decide on, whether to go to war? He made a decision largely from a personal and emotional basis (“Ah’m not gonna be the first president to lose a war.”) As a result, he split the party and his country apart, giving us Nixon (a guy he probably slightly favored, speaking of party politics, in 1968, over his own VP).
So much for experience and maturity …
civil Rights Act, Voting Rights Act, war on poverty (head start, food stamps, etc.), and Medicare/Medicaid.
I know you loathe LBJ and nobody on the left excuses or rationalizes his horrendous decisions that got us into Vietnam (promoted by JFK’s “best and brightest” team btw which you always dismiss). In his last year he did try to bring it to an end and Nixon/Kissinger derailed that and went on to preside over the next half of that war 1969-1975 along with expanding it into Cambodia. So, I loathe Nixon as much for that debacle as I do LBJ.
And I’m sure that his decade as Senate Whip, Minority Leader and Majority Leader had nothing to do with building a congressional Democratic base. It was just serendipitous that they took back the Senate when he had been the minority leader. Surely much better to serve only four years in the Senate (two of which were part-time to accommodate a POTUS run) and no time in any leadership positions to secure strong congressional political support when one advances to the WH,
You’re never going to move from your conclusion/opinion of LBJ and I’m never going to move from mine; so, let’s give it a rest. I’ll ignore your comments in this area to others and request that you ignore mine.
The massive Caro writings are largely about how Lyndon accumulated power for himself, not the party, and how he wielded it.
The Lord willing, I’ll still be alive when he finally finishes his final volume (or two), finally getting to the meat ‘n’ potatoes issues of 1965-8 and his War.
Lyndon: A liar, crook, warmonger, philanderer extraordinaire, and possibly mass murderer (VN, possibly USS Liberty, etc). Other than that, a fine fine president …
So it all depends on your choice of literature. 😉
I lived through the 1960s and your depiction of LBJ is quite one-sided and likely a repeat of a writer’s bias. Yes he build his own political empire and yes in the decades after the great war Texas voted for the Democrats … so did most of the South. The Civil Rights legislation changed all that and LBJ knew it beforehand. That’s well documented.
LBJ during his political career was more of a “socialist” than Obama, Clinton and Sanders combined. LBJ also had a personal soft spot for the Jewish people and the State of Israel. His decisions on foreign policy in the Middle East was very short-sighted and did a lot of damage.
US involvement with Vietnam started as early as the late 1940s under president Harry Truman. Under JFK the US role became more active through military advisors. Full commitment to intervene came under LBJ in his term before his election in 1964. One major turning point was the immolation of a Budhist monk in 1963 – JFK ordered a coup d’état, removal of Ngo Dinh Diem and he was assassinated in the first week of November 1963.
French surrender at Dien Bien Phu in May 1954.
Hah, socialist! Lyndon’s good friends and financial benefactors throughout his career were the Brown Bros of Brown & Root (later Halliburton) and several big oil and gas execs in TX, all of whom benefitted enormously from his VN War and other policies as president. About as socialist as Donald Trump.
LBJ and Israel: As I believe I’ve noted here before, an established researcher and author is coming out with a book in the near future that will look seriously at how Johnson, in her view, arranged for the Israeli armed forces attack on the USS Liberty during the Six Day War of 1967. If she can buttress her argument sufficiently, it’s going to (or should) send shock waves through the land. Or perhaps cause a pause in all the rosy revisionist history about Lyndon we’ve seen in recent times.
Thanks Oui — so many relevant and important facts that can’t be glossed over or omitted in any discussion of that period of time.
Who has even less of a congressional power base despte the fact he has been in congress for 15+ years? I would say the fact that he hasn’t really built any sort of power base after all of that time is a huge strike against him. Even with Obama’s limited experience (which I do think made things more challenging for him) he had more of a power base 4 years in than Bernie has at 15+ years in.
That tells me Bernie would end up being an even more ineffectual Carter. Great ideas but not able to get a dang thing done but even worse because his party won’t control congress.
At the National level, Obama didn’t build anything other than a campaign team that could challenge Clinton and beat of couple of old out of touch men.
Everything else was handed to him by various others.
Sort of difficult to build a congressional power base when the political party that you affiliate with, persists in running DINOs that lose — except every so often when the GOP totally screws up.
Hey, but Sanders knows that he has no congressional power base with the exception of most of the House progressive caucus and the few better Senators. His supporters also know it. That’s why 2016 can’t be strictly limited to electing Sanders without making some gains in the House and Senate. Not a lot just a few. The play has to be for big wins in 2018.
I was responding to something you posted. As for Bernie needing progressives, yes he does but the idea that if the Democratic party just ran progressives all over the country they will win the house regain the majority in the senate is a fantasy. That means he not only needs progressives. He, and any other Democratic president will need the Blue dogs to make a comeback.
I see you and others say Obama should have kept the 50 state strategy without understanding that the 50 state strategy and electing blue dogs went hand in hand. You want the 50 state strategy? The price of that is blue dogs. That is just reality.
Dean, the architect of the 50 state strategy, recruited many of those blue dogs because he got something you don’t seem to – those candidates could win in places that progressives don’t have a change in hell of winning.
So far all of the claims Obama dumped the 50 state strategy I would also say that the purer than thou progressives also dumped it.
As for Obama “getting things handed to him” that really sells short his own ability and efforts in building a coalition. In 2006 he campaigned for candidate after candidate. He also did so in 2004 after his speech at the convention made such an impact. Obama also worked with like minded Senators to work on nuclear non proliferation issues. Bernie has never done any of that. So no the goodwill Obama earned in the party that garnered him some early support was not just handed to him. He worked dang hard to “win friends and influence people.” That hard work paid off for him when it came to lining up support in the 2008 election.
Bernie has never done any of that.
That’s ridiculous.
Link
Bernie gets a lot of amendments supported into legislation all of the time.
Well amendments to some legislation as only three bills he has sponsored has ever passed and two of those were post office renamings. Still doesn’t address that he hasn’t campaigned for others and he hasn’t fund raised for others, which is the bread and butter of building a power base in congress.
Obama did all of that in both 2004 and 2006 which led to the support he needed in 2008. So no that support was not “just handed” to Obama. He worked dang hard for it. Both in the legislation he worked on and with the party work he did.
I’m not disagreeing with your assessment of Obama’s legislative work from 2004-2006 to build relationships. Although it should be said that Obama hates that stuff and it is “common knowledge” for a reason. I think the point that he’d have been more effective with more years in the Senate remains true.
What I disagreed with was brushing aside Sanders’ legislative accomplishments and his friendships/relationships in the Senate/House. Despite not having much legislation he co-sponsored/authored on the scoreboard, he does have a lot of amendments into bills that do turn into law, and has a general congenial relationship with his peers, including R’s. As the articles (in my mind exaggerated) headline says, “Loud/Stubborn Socialist, R’s Like Him Anyway”.
And Bernie does not have one. Not in 15 years in office and that is a big issue.
As for Obama I agree that more time in the Senate would have helped him be more effective but that doesn’t equate to him just being handed a power base. He used his short time in the Senate effectively to build one.
took office while an economic collapse was occurring. FDR tool office 4 years after it did. The GOP had been completely discredited. There was no real ideological argument to made against the New Deal. Yes, the rich opposed him, but there was a broad consensus behind what FDR proposed.
No consensus existed for Obama. Similarly, after the election in ’64 there was broad consensus for Civil Rights.
Will point out again, that that decision by FDR still has ramifications TO THIS DAY.
Black Seniors get LESS in their SS checks because of the DECADES when they were not allowed to put into the system.
The age for MEDICARE was chosen because Black people didn’t live long enough to collect.
OBAMACARE is the first expansion of the Social Safety Net that did NOT, have in its design, the exclusion of huge swaths of the American people.
It took the Roberts Court to do that.
The relevant SS changes were made in 1954…. sixty years ago.
If you were working, and paying in, sixty years ago, and took SS at the earliest eligible age, you’d be 122.
is full of shit. Most white progressives didn’t support the LBGT demonstrator.
It’s a straw man argument. Is he arguing that somehow Sanders didn’t stand up for Obama?
That’s bullshit too.
White progressives are not responsible for the backlash to Obama.
A bully shut down Sanders. Pure and simple.
this is why I have always rejected these emoprog/obamabot arguments.
the idea that white progressives have alienated African Americans because of their treatment of Obama is an idea that exists in very few places other than between Al’s ears.
The moral force behind BLM is inarguable to any decent human being. As a result anyone acting on their behalf is going to be given enormous deference, particularly in the early days of the movement.
That deference to tactics will decline if and when BLM’s issues become addressed by people like Sanders. In fact, I think he already has addressed many of these concerns.
Two months from now this piece will read differently if we are lucky. Two months from now the importance of the issue will be a part of a larger message Sanders will convey. As result, the tolerance for what happened yesterday will be far lower.
But not to the degree Al think it has. It is anecdotal but I have a couple of African-American friends who think that the default of many a white progressive is to condescend to the President and to judge him by different standards.
Earlier in this diary I relayed my thoughts on one big way I see that manifested – the comparisons to FDR where FDR’s history of trading away black rights and protections are forgotten in proclaiming him as someone who fought while Obama is someone who doesn’t.
Yeah, you and they just can’t stand him talking about the 1% and economic injustice because it makes Obama look bad. Well, Obama’s actions and inactions are what make him look bad.
You’re not serious with this are you?
He called BLM the black KKK earlier. He’s being diplomatic now.
So our lives don’t matter? Fuck you.
Tell me, how much of a challenge is it going through life being so aggressively obtuse?
Wow, you’ve really gone down the rabbit hole with this persecution complex you have about everyone hating white men.
As a white man, I can clearly say you’re wrong and you’re wildly misinterpreting what everyone is saying, especially the BLM.
Black Lives Matter movement isn’t saying that no one else’s lives don’t matter. It’s saying that right now, given everything that happened that we can’t overlook the fact that black lives haven’t mattered. They haven’t mattered to the police, they haven’t mattered to the media, and often times they haven’t mattered to the rest of the progressive movement.
They’re not saying that white lives don’t matter, or native americans or hispanic lives don’t matter. They’re just trying to stop the killing and dying that is happening in their community. Just because they gain some power doesn’t necessarily mean you’re losing any.
And all that killing and dying is Bernie Sanders’ fault, so it is right to single him out and deny him the right to speak?
Shouting out to the audience that they are “white supremist liberals” should not be taken as an attack on white people?
Who is down the rabbit hole?
No one has said they’re his fault, he’s done an awful job trying to hear their concerns but like Boo said in the post this isn’t about an election for them.
Also, I didn’t the “white supremacist liberals” comment anywhere else but if it happened at the Seattle event then those people weren’t really part of BLM, so much so that Seattle BLM has apologized publicly for what happened.
Where is this apology being circulated? BLM — not necessarily Seattle — has denied apologizing about anything (as if they needed to apologize about anything in the first place).
I saw it on the Seattle BLM FB page
Link
Well, I looked and I see nothing about an apology.
Moreover, as I said, BLM national has not demanded an apology or anything of the sort:
Link
Apparently Bernie Sanders fell down the rabbit hole:
Must be crushing to see your political hero make common cause with virulent anti-white racists.
Yes, I am. This BLM group wants to stop Sanders because he wants all Americans to have a better life. Now that they are attacking Social security with the ludicrous claim that FDR was a racist, they are my mortal enemies. I’ve had enough of the “white privilege” crap as well. I’m not going to apologize for being white and I had NO privileges and had to work or fight all my life. I’m not going to get on my knees and beg forgiveness for my ethn icity. BLM is nothing but a racist organization themselves.
I’m gonna stick with “all lives matter”. I don’t agree any more with the racist saying “black lives matter”. But I don’t want to identify with any ethnicity in this matter.
That’s your right.
Maybe Sanders could talk about police violence and what he intends to do about it.
Sanders needs to think of something to do, anyway.
Absolutely. Sit there and listen to these fuckheads blather about not getting enough government cheese is not going to cut it. I suggest 3 things:
No one goes to a Sanders rally to hear these BLM morons. They are done.
Yesterday’s event was not a Sanders rally; nor was the Netroots Nation conference where both O’Malley and Sanders were interrupted by BLM activists. Bernie and his campaign didn’t have control of the agenda, or the mic, either time.
Is he the President? Does he command the Justice Department and the FBI? What does Obama intend to do about it? THAT’s where protests should be aimed.
There have been protests aimed at the administration and the administration has responded
Investigated the Ferguson police department
There is also that Eric Holder was a historic AG when it came to civil rights, at least according to Think Progress (http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2014/09/25/3572134/holder-civil-rights/)
And that AG Loretta Lynn has continued in that vein.
There is also one of the original architects of the black lives matter movement on the President’s policing task force (Cynthia something)
As for your hashtag it just shows your privilege. I agree that all lives matter but as a white woman I know I don’t have to worry about being targeted because of the color of my skin. That I can wear a hoodie without wondering if it will paint an X on my back. That I can drive a Mercedes without raising suspicion.
Does Sanders not want to be President? He should be talking about it too.
OT: I’m not convinced that he wants to be President and if he does that he thinks he can win himself.
Why doesn’t Hilary? Why doesn’t O’Malley?
And whether you admit or not she has put in the time and campaign infrastructure to reach out to the black community. She and her husband have campaigned for black candidates. Reached out to black churches, etc. Bernie has not started doing that until very recently and by recently I mean in the last week or so. His campaign only hired its first African American in a high profile position on Saturday.
As for your tagline, do you really feel so threatened by people fighting for their lives that you have to appropriate the name of their movement? Are you really that threatened and insecure? Here is a clue NO ONE is not saying your life doesn’t matter. And no misguided tactics at an event Bernie was attending (tactics which have been denounced by people a lot more closely tied to the BLM movement in Seattle than the women who came on stage) is not saying your life doesn’t matter.
Yes, because they are saying our lives don’t matter. They want a fight and I’m not going to back down. YOU may think our lives don’t matter but I really don’t give a shit.
Where anywhere did they say white lives don’t matter?
You’re missing the entire point and aren’t making much sense at this point.
They are trying to shut Sanders off because he is addressing issues that concern white working people not theirs. They take over his podiums and won’t let him speak , by implication his speech and subjects have no value. We matter too!
Problem since I specifically posted that of course all lives matter. You also seem to have one heck of a persecution complex because I don’t see the larger BLM movement saying white lives don’t matter. Just that their lives matter AS MUCH AS white lives.
They have been talking about it and mostly in a more effective way than Sanders.
Just for the record I have nothing against Sanders and personally believe in much of what he stands for, I just don’t think he’s a serious candidate. I think some of his supporters need to re-calibrate how much they think he’s being attacked but other than that I would love to have a President that believes what he does.
With 2, 3, 4,..deaths a week from extrajudicial killing, #blacklivesmatter’s calendar is more urgent than is that of Bernie’s campaign. Those deaths need to stop now.
Otherwise, an excellent analysis of the divide. #blacklivesmatter is about stopping killing. It is Bernie’s campaign that is about building a big coalition to get an improbable candidate elected President in the face of billions of dollars in media war chests.
Disruptive tactics, indeed all non-violent tactics are asymmetrical tactics from a position of political weakness. If that were not the case, the political process would have already dealt with the issue.
Seattle is an excellent choice for protest, given the history of race relations with the Seattle Police Department. It should be as obvious as those other progressive bastions New York and Chicago, but no one complains “Why are you protesting de Blasio or why are you protesting Rahm?” And Phoenix? The counterpart of Houston in a whole lot of ways.
I think that Giordano goes over the edge with this one:
As I understand the situation, the reason is more of a matter of asking Bernie “Where’s the beef?” to use Walter Mondale’s 1984 formulation. Where does all that progressive philosophy and policy deal with extrajudicial killings. Or is that deferred until after economic inequality is dealt with?
The obvious political fact is that if Bernie is creative and gutsy enough and has the negotiating chops to pull a coalition together on the other side of this that recognizes the independence of #blacklivesmatter but takes seriously their issues and agenda, Bernie grows in political stature. His two whiffles when confronted need not be fatal if he makes changes. The other obvious fact is that as Bernie gains popularity, it will be much more difficult for activists to breach the bubble. If Bernie won’t the Secret Service will make sure of that.
Yes, the motivation for the Black Panther Party’s self-defense movement was precisely the same as that of #blacklivesmatter. #blacklivesmatter has pointedly not gone the route of picking up the gun for philosophical and strategic reasons. However Dallas’s Huey P. Newton Brigade has formed a #blackopencarry movement at least in the Dallas area. I believe that that political action is one of deterrence in their local situation and a strange sort of pro-gun tacit coalition–the contradictory political signals are interesting to watch as is the Dallas Police Department response.
The security tactics of Martin Luther King’s movement during the 1960s are rather interesting. And the dance that the Southern civil rights movement did with the Federal law enforcement system and Attorney General Robert Kennedy. The statement about Martin Luther King’s tactics has to be seen in light of the fact that for a while, the civil rights movement was get some albeit half-hearted federal protection.
In 1965, the Student Non-Violent Coordinating Committee under Stokely Carmichael launched a position of “black power” and asked white members to move with a black agenda. That action cause similar howls among white progressives and provoke the first spate of articles about “white liberals”. It was a point at which it became clear that for some in the movement, integration as a goal was fundamentally a co-option of black self-determination, an expectation of black assimilation into white culture as had occurred for the expectation of assimilation of other ethnic groups into White Anglo-Saxon Protestant culture. That accomplishment was what the 1950s media celebrated even with Jewish comedians, Italian pop musicians, and Greek and Cuban sitcom actors, not to mention Chef Boy-ar-dee and Chun King. In 1965, the charge was separatism. It is this tension in a coalition and also a pluralistic culture between unity and co-option and between integration of cultures (political styles) and assimilation that is the flash point for white folk fairly predictably. Some day someone will analyze Obama’s relationship with white Democrats and progressives (those relationships were quite different) in terms of this white flash point. I think it has to do with a sense of a loss of privilege and control, which is what building a coalition normally has a lot of. Even the coalition-building of a campaign cannot be a one-way street. But in the marketing campaign consultant frame of elections over the past three decades, it has become that.
When will the politicians recognize that?
I think a committee of citizens advised by attorneys should present information to judges from a different venue to determine whether to prosecute extrajudicial killings. I also think we should excise names there so person A or Officer B to avoid the names biases.
We also need massive changes to police culture. This includes incentiving more liberal arts types to become cops, demilitarizing by witholding federal surplus, standardized training across the country, inyeraction with people of color in non criminal situations, less brothers in blue, and being far less stupid about things like drug crime and gun regs and providing massive assistance to offenders when they get out to enable them to build crime free lives. We also need to crack down on housing discrimination like doing away with racist zoning regs so you have more integrated neighborhoods. Familiarity may breed contempt but it also tends to breed less fear.
I think all these things whether a pony plan or not are generally progressive solutions.
“We also need massive changes to police culture.”
Forget it! So-called “police culture” is part of American culture and due to task of “serve to protect” has by extension become violent and has all the extremes of American society. See article at WSWS on the GOP candidates standing to become president.
And don’t forget, since 9/11 homeland security has teamed up and set new goals for the police. See how justice and DHS infiltrate opposition and protest movements thereby undermining democratic principles of the state.
○ Transforming the U.S. into Clone of Israeli National Security State | Tikun Olam |
The BLM to remain authentic shouldn’t emulate tactics used by Tea Partiers. It’s ridiculous to prevent politicians from speaking during the political campaign, BLM members become hacklers and likely end up a fringe movement. It will be interesting what effects the new polls show for Bernie Sanders.
excellent suggestions, breaking down the problem, doable
Nah, don’t listen to him. Burn this motherfucker to the ground. For comedy’s sake. Why should Republicans get all the “fun” with Trumpapalooza 2015? Chaos, chaos everywhere.
It’s no wonder Bernie is getting firebombed, it’s not random. He’s spent years now calling Barack Obama (and other “broken system” politicians) irreparably corrupt. You don’t get to show that kind of disrespect and have people not remember. Plus, realistically most of his super white supporters seem to be pretty racist and indignant about black political participation. Also, he’s NOT A DEMOCRAT and taking advantage of the party for his own vanity’s sake. That’s a recipe for carnage. His supporters claimed they wanted a spirited primary, well, they’re getting one just not on their terms.
The Democratic Party is tearing itself apart trying and failing to replace the President. However much anxiety and breathlessness there was in Jan 2009, expect just as much in Jan 2017. Obama has left an indelible presence, and there’s no going back from that, no matter how much white people wish otherwise.
That explains why BLM is all about protecting the good name of Washington politicians.
Not politicians plural, no. Just the one, really.
Indict him, malign him at your own peril. The central test for office in this year’s Dem primary is reverence for the President and his work and a genuine welcoming of black political participation for all times going forward.
If you seem exclusionary or disrespectful, you’re fucked. And rightly so.
his accomplishments at the Democratic party’s peril. For example, I have already read too many times well why aren’t the BLM protesters going after the administration instead of protesting Bernie?
First of all they have and beyond that the administration has been responsive.
And the administration has been responsive.
There is also that Eric Holder was a historic AG when it came to civil rights, at least according to Think Progress (http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2014/09/25/3572134/holder-civil-rights/)
And that AG Loretta Lynn has continued in that vein.
I also think that a big problem that BOTH sides need to understand is that a lot of this change has to come at the state and local level.
I didn’t support Obama in 2007 because he was black nor have a been a critic of many of his positions and policies as POTUS because he’s black.
I’ve been a democratic socialist that reject US worldwide military dominance, environmental destruction, and racial, sexual, and economic inequality since I was sixteen. I’d could give a crap if the candidate best able to support and articulate those political principles is a one-eyed, green colored, infertile gnome.
Worse? It could definitely get worse. Last time I checked we were all supposed to be on the same team. Lighten up motherfuckers.
It’s the notion of teams that is collapsing across the political spectrum. Direct funding by billionaires will do that.
And the folks not billionaires fight it out trying to be both effective and practical, when those seem totally contradictory within the current political system.
It doesn’t take billionaires.
The big-L left in this country never had two dollars to rub together — having spent both on mimeograph supplies — but you never saw a bunch more prone to fissure in your life…
Meh. If black progressives like Giordano and much of Black Twitter are going to assume that any criticism of Obama is racist, then there really is no hope of black progressives and white socialists getting along–basically, from their POV, socialism and social democracy are both racist, in and of themselves.
My prediction is that the Sanders/Warren faction of economic populists in the Dem party is going to be screwed for a while (Giordano is certainly correct that there is no way for them to win without black support.) They’ll be screwed until the black and latino working classes realize that black professional activists are screwing them over. No idea how many years or decades that will take, if it ever happens.
Then again, I’ve seen some push back on Twitter against what happened in Seattle, even from some who were okay with the NN15 disruption. BLM schism might be happening already.
Oh, wait, Giordano isn’t even black? He’s just another disingenuous white troll using black issues to attack anyone criticizing Obama? Yes, he damn well is. Shouda known.
I am not invested in an argument with BLM. Booman’s post is a very valuable piece of advice! At the same time, it would feel good to at least vent a little here.
I understand a little bit about the frustration that the BLM movement is feeling (I’m white so I can’t fully comprehend it), but I want to ask:
Where we’re my black neighbors when we were fighting against the 1% after 2007? Where were they when we were protesting the Iraq War? Where we’re they when we were advocating for GLBT rights? Where we’re they when we were advocating for immigration rights. Where have they been for climate change? Where have they been for standing with our Muslim neighbors post 9/11? Our efforts to involve black people into our work however imperfect always seem to have come up short, leaving our movement mostly older and white.
And up close and personal, we worked hard in Pasadena to save a mail distribution facility that employed a lot of black people in our community. A few of us tried to get people in the community to show up to an event the following week that included three local Congress people, the mayor, city Council members and leaders of the postal unions. Nobody fromm the black community bothered to show up.
So BLM should maybe consider how we white progressives feel. We’ve been giving up our weekends for years doing the hard work of organizing. Being black and Ferguson don’t exempt a person with from having to do this work too.
So do advocate for the issues that BLM is working towards and do he outreach to broaden the coalition, but don’t expect white activists to appreciate the disrespect currently coming from the BLM community. We are trying to do the best we can (even as we do it within a white privileged position). It takes more than disrupting the stage of a Sanders rally to be successful in advancing BLM issues that so many of us in the white liberal community would like to be a part of.
At the risk of being wrong, I’m going to say that the limited of AA participation of other protests/movements/actions has more to do with the leadership in their communities than it does with the people. It’s easy to forget and/or overlook that AA power in the Civil Rights movement was organized in and flowed from their churches. That is also a major support base for the AA politicians that were subsequently elected. They look towards those same leaders for guidance today.
It should not be forgotten that MLK, Jr. was less popular in AA communities when his message became more inclusive, more about economics, and about the Vietnam War. iirc the brilliant Paul Robeson wasn’t embraced as a leader in the AA community because of his economic orientation. Both men saw how the links between capitalism and politics combined to limit the health, wealth, and happiness of all the have nots, including AA. But it no more resonates in the AA community than it does in the white working/middle class.
Major AA participation, like major labor participation, in Occupy Wall Street first occurred on October 15, 2011. That was the day that police decided to kettle the protesters on the Brooklyn Bridge, arresting 700. Other large events drew coalitions of AA, Puerto Rican, Hispanic, and labor groups.
In all general assemblies, there were long discussions of procedure having to do with the tendency of white male heterosexuals to do what today is called “whitesplaining” (and all its other majority dominance forms). Many created essentially a quota system to ensure minority and female access and viewpoints to the mic in general assemblies.
The division today is between organizations and movements, even within ethnic communities, the feminists, LGBTs, and environmentalists. On the one side, there were distrust of old leadership, co-option, and organization; on the other, distrust of young, impetuous activists, the lack of structure, and disruption. That is part of what is manifest in the direct actions at the Bernie events.
Did try to get involved in OWS and there was plenty of anecdotal evidence that they weren’t very welcome. We also have one well documented incident where John Lewis was blocked from speaking at the Atlanta’s OWS.
One over-hyped instance intended to smear Occupy Atlanta. Lewis and Occupy Atlanta came to an understanding within 24 hours. Politicians should not be privileged in a general assembly just because they are bound by an external schedule; that was the procedural issue. Is a democratic assembly democratic or are certain people privileged because of their roles. Lewis cut his political teeth in the Student Non-Violent Coordinating Commmittee and was familiar with both the issue and the perspective of the few in Occupy Atlanta who raised it. Lewis is a master class in how to handle incidents like this.
The reputation of many of the OWS encampments were that they weren’t very welcoming towards people of color. I know you are well informed so I am going to assume you remember that as well.
Welcoming was not the issue. Dominance in the discussions of issues and tactics was where the conflicts appeared. And in some encampments factions of primarily white anarchists (not a perjorative, a description of their political philosophy) acted to railroad certain directions of decisions that risked the safety of others, an issue to which minorities were particularly sensitive given the potential consequences.
There were a lot of issues because horizontal democratic governance is not a taught skill in US democracy.
Who shows up to the movement is who shows up to the movement. It is as it ever was.
One of my mentors was a Southern white minister who marched in Selma. He tells of his reaction in marching at all of the black citizens of Selma sitting on their front porches and cheering the march onward and about his uncharitable thoughts about what he thought they should do, which exposed more of his residual racism than he thought he had. (It was something like “get off your — —- —- and get out here and march with us.”) He did not say what he thought, but found it a helpful revelation of his ignorance of what their situation actually was. They could be fired from their jobs, taken by the police, or killed by white vigilantes.
One should never forget that movemental action is risky.
Even when an event is not movemental politics, getting out attendance is difficult if strangers are doing the inviting.
What white allies can do is put pressure on local governments to review their police polices, experience, and practices to root out those things that drive extrajudicial killing. (1) Tolerance of lying on police reports. (2) Attitudes that all’s fair to get a conviction. (3) Using police activities as a profit center. (4) Trainers who advocate shooting first. (5) Distancing officers from knowing, understanding, and dealing civilly with lawful people in the community. (6) Overusing stop-and-frisk policing or requiring contact quotas. (7) Tolerating racist speech in PD offices. (8) Allowing FOPs to intimidate the administration into keeping bad cops.
There are others. These issues are well known. And a year after Ferguson they are now well-covered in the online media. White pressure to come clean and clean up police departments acting independently of any other movement helps move things forward.
In Saint Louis, probably Mary Engelbreit the graphic artist has the best network of people who are knowledgeable in how to go about this as white allies. She also has some helpful graphics to provoke white attention.
It needs to go beyond the white liberal community; it’s time to figure out how to bridge the divide with the white conservative community on police issues. “But it’s so hard” won’t matter if our society falls apart or degenerates into a police state.
I did some cursory googling to see if Engelbreit is connected to the local St Louis AIGA chapter, but it appears not. However, that chapter’s VP has been conducting a\ Creative Reaction Lab series that might be mutually beneficial. I’m not local (I run the SB, CA chapter) but I’m gonna find out if that’s something they’re doing, or want to help with, or if that’s even appropriate.
(I erroneously posted this to the Trump thread)
I think Bernie needs to do his version of Obama’s “race speech”. He could say – “you know, like many white liberals, I assumed my long history of civil rights advocacy was sufficient. I was wrong – now that I’ve studied this movement seriously …” – and then launch into a Bernie-esque straight talk speech about why progressive whites living in progressive white communities are insulated and don’t take this issue seriously enough. I’ve gone through this evolution myself lately. I always assumed that racism was essentially over (in civilized areas) because everyone I know was never racist to begin with and wishes they were black because all their musical heroes are either black or totally black-influenced (like The Beatles, for example). My evolution stemmed from the movie “Lincoln”, when Tommy Lee Jones is arguing that the North needed to finish the war, occupy the South, and divide the slave owners’ land among the slaves. Had they done that, we’d now have many generations of “old black money” that would have been inherited down the line. That’s the core of racism in America nowadays. By reason of ancestry, blacks are drastically poorer. No ancester ever owned a house that got super-inflated by real estate bubbles and left it to their deadbeat kids and so on. Inherited wealth (even if you don’t consider yourself “wealthy”) is what separates white lefties from blacks. In terms of advancing the erroneous idea that racism is over, John Roberts is the highest profile offender. All of the old racist prejudices are gone (in civilized areas) but the core economic disadvantages are hard-wired into the system. That’s why affirmative action is so important and why we should really do reparations for slavery. The thing I love most about Bernie is that he says what everyone else realizes but is afraid to say. I don’t know if even he would be willing to make the reparations argument, but he could at least lay the logical groundwork for it. You have to get your head around the real problem before you’re ready to adopt the real solution.
Liberty University would be a great place to sound a call to white-black worker unity. No this is not snark. If he can pull it off and set things off in a new direction, it will be a historic accomplishment. Cynics don’t believe that Sanders is capable of historic accomplishments; times sometimes make the man.
While I thought the disruption of his rally was clearly counterproductive, I completely agree that Bernie needs to do something like this. He’s the guy who can say things other pols won’t, and this is an area where that’s very much needed.
I’m struck with your caricature of white lefties as “inherited wealth”. Explain the connection. The only way I can see it is enough parental wealth to get a good college education that exposed them (in the past half-century at least) to lefty ideas in the post-(Joe) McCarthy reaction. Specific lefties were offspring of wealthy lawyers and other professionals. But how this becomes a stereotype escapes me.
Most of the people among my peers that I knew went to college with little to no family financial assistance. White working class families with too little income and/or too many kids to do more. Yet, didn’t qualify as poor enough for government educational grants. And it wasn’t easy to get one of those scary student loans before one was twenty-one without a co-signer.
Is this post-Gov. Reagan?
No, it’s pre-Reagan.
So we are talking about the golden days of free higher education in the Golden State?
It was never free. There were always a variety of mandatory fees and with books and supplies those costs added up. Not exorbitant but not incidental either. The killer was living costs. Unless one’s family lived around the corner from a UC campus, that option was out for lower/middle-class kids. Cal-State was also problematical due to location and few even had any on campus housing. Community colleges were the most affordable and available option. Good value and generally good educationally. For many that still left housing (but in locations less pricey than UC and Cal-State areas) and if one worked as one went to college, that meant a car. (Over the student center PA system announcements about the random vehicle inspection stops for that day would be announced.)
Not I. I’m talking about the pre-Reagan time when it was possible to pay for college by working nights at retail and summers in factories. A time when no one borrowed money for college unless maybe a parent took out a second mortgage, but that was only needed for Ivy League schools.
My Dad was the first in his family to go to college in the late 50’s. He then went on to become an Engineer at IBM in the space program.
At one point in a meeting the head of the division asked for a show of hands: how many were the children of blue collar workers. My dad told me well over 75% raised their hands.
The Unions gave families enough economic security to allow their children to advance (an enormous percentage of working line blue collar kids would study engineering). My dad went to a private college (Case in Cleveland) and did not have a scholarship. Between working and my grandfather they were able to pay for it.
That same school is 60K a year now.
http://www.theatlantic.com/features/archive/2014/05/the-case-for-reparations/361631/
Thanks for this, Steve. This comments thread was showing a desperate need for the reporting you’ve linked here.
I think the Black Lives Matter movement is very important; however, I do not believe that the leaders of the movement should not so easily dismiss the thought that All Lives Matter. I am American Indian and have experienced my own discrimination by both black and white. Yet, the way too many incidences of white police officers shooting and killing unarmed black people is just too prevalent; and, I am all for something being done about that. As a result, the BLM leaders need to take all the help they can get from any group of people including white, red, etc. They should not discriminate against those people who want to help and accept their help graciously showing that all lives matter.
BLM implies all lives matter just like how feminism implies that equality for men is also there.
“All Lives Matter” is an attempt to distract the conversation; the same people who bring up “black on black crime”, if you will.
BLM has been very vocal about the killing of Zachary Hammond (a white child) whereas the “All Lives Matter” people haven’t said jack.
Also, parallel movements are to my mind better than the sophistry of “All Lives Matter”:
A day after attending a Native Lives Matter march, a Native American man in South Dakota was killed by a police officer
~Son Of Baldwin
But, but… All lives do matter, or all lives do not.
Fact that dark folk have been given the short straw for many years here. And I think that they deserve a fair shake. But the fact is this: we’re all humans. Race is a trivial thing (are it’s flowers pale or are they purple?).
So lookee: all lives matter whatever color they’re dressed up in.
Race is a trivial distinction. And so are all of these gaudy arguments.
Okay, where do Asian and Latinos fit into this whole white/black progressive divide? If a 1st-Gen immigrant family from Venezuela decides that they like the pro-education and pro-wage growth policies of the Democratic Party but consider it acceptable compensation for the Democratic Party’s intransigence on police brutality, are they hypocritical sell-outs, too?
For Democrats they are honorarily white. For Republicans, you mileage may vary. That is fundamentally a hypothetical question without an answer.
Honorarily white are pretty big weasel words. Honorarily white in what way? How much white privilege do they get WRT blacks in terms of poverty, police brutality, mortality rates, etc.? More importantly, what is BLM’s strategy for convincing these people to get onboard?
By the way, this is not a hypothetical question. Remember, in less than a generation they’ll be around 25-30% of the voting population and it’s likely that they’ll have their own concerns. Perhaps they won’t have the same bottom-of-society status that blacks do, but putting them in the same category as the white bourgeois is highly insulting. BLM is not going to be able to just brush them off by accusing them of racial insensitivity nor are they going to be able to ignore them.
You’re talking to a group of people who barely have more money, IQ, educational attainment, etc. than the most marginalized group. How are they going to convince them that their primary goal isn’t foolish, myopic, or god forbid selfish?
Remember the debate where there was some discussion about announcements during a Republican debate, and Reagan objected. He said “I am paying for this microphone”. That won a huge credibility moment for him.
Every time those BLM morons stand up and take over, Sanders loses credibility. He should have a bullhorn with himself, and he should simply refuse those fucking morons their little hijack moment. He paid for the microphone. They are stealing it. FUCK THEM.
Yes, that’s the way to build credibility in the African-American community. Claim that because you are the candidate, you own the terms of the conversation; so just suck on it. Let’s see how many votes that delivers.
That does typify the entitlement politicians seem to feel these days in dealing with their employers.
Where is the “black community” calling out these fuckhead thieves? They are nothing but thieves. It’s not their rally. It’s Sanders’ rally, IF HE CAN KEEP IT.
If he does not have the cojones to call Sista Solja NOW, he is done. If he cannot stand up to a couple of thieves who steal his rally, how could he deal with Putin?
And if the black community supports this kind of shit, we have serious problems. No one has the right to do this kind of thievery.
And couching it in legal terms only serves to alienate people. I happen to agree that the tactics at the Seattle event were the wrong course of action but I am also not going to act like what they did was illegal nor am I going to say that Sanders or any candidate needs to smack them down (which reads like put those blacks in their place) in order to prove he has cajones. There is a better way – better coordination with event sponsors, reaching out before hand, being able to handle the interruptions more deftly, etc.
The first two would happen if he had a better run campaign. Hopefully he is reaching that point. The last would happen if he was a better campaigner. Good campaigners can read the room and adapt. Obama is brilliant at this. As was Reagan. As was Bill Clinton. Kerry was a disaster at it as was Gore.
Yeah, thievery is correct. People did not come to hear these BLM morons. They stole the rally. Absolutely the right frame.
And as to “reading the situation”, I don’t think that anyone can do that. Now, what I do think can be done is to plan better, and I think you said that.
Sanders is in the middle of a manhood test. Can he suck it up and take control? If not, he is toast. That picture of the two thieves with Sanders in the background is POISON for his campaign. Feckless and emasculated, that’s what Bernie is in that picture.
To put people in their place with manhood says all I need to know about your worldview. Well that and the fact that you are equating misguided protest tactics to an illegal act.
As for Bernie I would say the fact that he has run a sloppy campaign thus far is one of his biggest issues. He prides himself on being outside the establishment but the downside of that, is that it shows. He isn’t able to adjust his message. He doesn’t have the infrastructure both at events and with the different Democratic constituents.
I think some of that is beginning to change but it needs to change quicker.
A badly run campaign was mu biggest knock against Hillary in 2008 as well.
If he cannot handle 2 black women who hijack his rally, how could he handle Putin?
It’s a cojones deal, yep. If the pic of Bernie looking like he swallowed a lemon while those thieves are howling about more free cheese, he is going nowhere.
If you wanna be POTUS, you need to be large and in charge. Not getting your butt kicked in public.
Racism and misogyny. Two terrible tastes that taste terrible together.
For what it is worth, the WP is fully in agreement with my reading:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/black-lives-matter-members-steal-microphone-from-bernie-sande
rs/2015/08/09/5af045de-3ec5-11e5-9443-3ef23099398b_gallery.html?hpid=z8
BLM MEMBERS STEAL MICROPHONE FROM BERNIE SANDERS
It’s theft.
I don’t agree with the Washington Post’s loaded language and I don’t agree with yours.
Neither of the incidents where Sanders was interrupts by BLM activists were official events of Bernie’s campaign. They were public events run by others, and Sanders accepted the hosts’ invitations.
He didn’t pay for the mic. And, invoking Reagan so directly might not be the best action for a candidate for the Democratic Party POTUS nomination to take.
So, you are saying that none of the people came to hear Bernie? That without Bernie, there would still be the same crowd?
Bullshit on that. He bought the rally with his persona and his campaign.
If he can’t stand up to a couple of thieves, he is toast. Starting today, this is a cojones thing. Does Bernie have the cojones to call the thieves out?
This is starting to be a pattern, BTW. One that I do not like.
OK, got it. Doesn’t make any difference that the candidate was a guest and was not in a position to dictate terms to anyone. Just invoke the Wonderful Man and Powerful Leader Ronald Reagan and happily conjure the image of Sanders bigfooting everyone, event leaders and temporary hijackers alike. THAT’s Presidential!!!
You’ve clearly communicated that you won’t be dissuaded from your view. Proceed as you will.
Yeah, and then we can be among the people in the crowd who said “Taze them!”
That’s how Bernie will win South Carolina!
BUT…
I thought all he needed was a job…..
isn’t that right, Bernie?
………………………….
Racist Lowe’s Customer Refuses To Allow Black Delivery Driver Into Her Home
Aug 9, 2015
Marcus Bradley, a Black delivery driver for Lowe’s Home Improvement store in Danville, Virginia, was told that he couldn’t make a delivery to a woman’s home because she requested that the delivery person not be Black, Fox1o reports.
Bradley was already out on the delivery when he got the call from work telling him to turn around.
“I asked him why I couldn’t do it and he said because you’re Black and they don’t want you at the house,” Bradley said.
When Bradley returned to the store, he was replaced with a White driver.
Bradley said that he was shocked and disappointment by the incident, but that he doesn’t plan on quitting his job.
“I mean, I thought that Lowe’s would take up for me,” he said.
“I mean, I gotta work…I’m going to keep going to work like I’ve always done. But I would think Lowe’s would take it into consideration to think about what they’re doing next time.”
Fox10 reporters reached out to the woman who demanded a White driver and she doubles down on her racism.
Reporter: “I just want to know your side of the story, whether it’s true or not?”
Customer: “I got a right to have whatever I want and that’s it.”
Reporter: “Do you feel bad about the delivery driver?”
Customer: “No, I don’t feel bad about nothing.”
http://www.fox10tv.com/story/29738022/delivery-driver-allegedly-turned-away-because-hes-black
Little confused here….are you saying that Bernie Sanders is helping Lowes in a campaign about delivery?
If not, what is the point of having a question to Bernie?
The analogies only explain (if they do that) why Black Lives Matter think they need to heckle Bernie Sanders. They don’t show that they are right.
Bernie Sanders has nothing to do with any of that bullshit, sorry.
law Bernie Sanders voted for it. So yes he holds some responsibility. If progressives rightfully ding Bill and by association Hillary on that bill that brought about so many negative consequences then Bernie, who voted for it should also be held accountable.
Report from Portland tonight: Bernie had a full house at the Moda Center (19-20 thousand) with another nine thousand turned away. A great speech. The place rocked. Young, old, and everyone in between.
Re: The introductory speaker warned us that someone might disrupt the event, but if they do, we just chant “We Stand United.” I think that there were some people shouting “Black Lives Matter” but a handful of people among 20,000 were lost.
By the way, there’s a picture floating around the internet of Mara Jacqueline Willaford, one of the women who broke up the Saturday rally. She was the one in the t-shirt with the braids. The picture shows her at what appears to be a Longshoreman’s action in support of the Palestinians. In the picture Willaford is dressed in a conservative Palestinian outfit, with straightened hair. From the picture it looks like Willaford is impersonating a Palestinian woman. My guess is that she’s a paid provocateur. The question is: who would pay for her to disrupt a Bernie rally in Seattle and impersonate a Palestinian? I don’t think that’s Hillary.
interesting, thanks. I wasn’t suspecting the Hillary campaign btw but I was/ am suspicious. most ppl in our country face major issues, the problems are very real; a few don’t wish the problems to be addressed head on as Bernie could do. agents provacateurs as an investment up front don’t cost much in the long run. I taught at a progressive institution that became seriously paralyzed through a “strike” or whatever one would call it and decades later still hasn’t recovered. In that instance it was a few self promoting grifters, nevertheless managed to disable the institution
Some black people think that white people criticize Obama because he’s black. Evidently no black people criticize him and no white people who voted for him are allowed to criticize him even though they voted for him. More ironically, Obama doesn’t seem to be criticized by black people because he might seen as not advancing their interests as a whole, which he hasn’t especially. So maybe Obama isn’t even black…or not black enough…on and on going nowhere. Couldn’t Sanders turn out to be a better deal for black people than Obama ever even wanted to be? Maybe. Why not consider the possibility: he’s running for president for god’s sake. Let’s leave HRC out of the discussion because she’s innocence personified. Or is she about to be targeted? No way, her handlers wouldn’t let it happen, hashtag black lives matter wouldn’t be allowed anywhere near her stage. Hashtag black lives matter has turned into an organization. Who’s running it (follow the money?)?
white progressives, hold Obama to a different standard than they have Democratic president of the past. They decry him for being the caver in chief and say he should be a fighter like FDR was without ever acknowledging that FDR compromised plenty in his time, most especially compromising away legislation that would help people of color, especially blacks, in order to secure Southern Democratic votes in his own party. I fully acknowledge there he had to do that to get social security and other legislation passed but I also think the same holds true for Obama and the stimulus and ACA.
As far as Obama not helping black people, the ACA has helped black people more than any other demographic. That is a real positive impact on their lives, yet some progressives in the blog world, especially white progressives, continue to rail against it and the phantom public option. Calling it a failed program. Refusing to acknowledge those it has helped.
if we’re just talking bare bones accomplishments how about also consumer protection and appointing Holder and Lynch? and focus on jailing bankers strikes me as the same kind of holding Obama to a different standard – he should pursue that chimera instead of accomplishing something that benefits the many?
Democrats complained about Clinton.
Look, the only time we are united and not going after each other is when we are out of power and the right is running everything. As soon as we have power the knives come out because for one group to get anything another group must be sold out to the rich.
The real war is in team D, economic populists vs social liberals. For one to win, the other must lose completely.
Anyways, I agree.
To me it’s very simple.
Blaming the powerless is always stupid, no matter who does it.
Having been through the 60s anti-war movement, one thing is clear. The more “grassroots” a movement is the easier it is to be infiltrated and used. Carl Oglesby, in his RAVENS IN A STORM, goes into detail at how thoroughly the peace movement, in his case the SDS, was infiltrated by FBI, CIA, military intelligence and local police department intelligence agencies. Same could by said of my little Student Peace Union on my little campus. The government may not be able to feed our children but they never run out of money spying on us.
[In the 80s there was a “privatized” Bnai Brith-fronted spy op against SF Bay Area progressive groups. I was in the local branch of the Letter Carriers Union, and it turns out we were spied on. From what little we could get of the records (we couldn’t see them because they were “private property”) gathered on us, not only was there the traditional dumpster diving but there appears to have been people on the inside of our union reporting on us. I’m talking letter carriers, not The Friends of the PLO, so again, resources for spying on and possibly disrupting progressive movements is bigger than most of us imagine.
Using faux movements, or infiltrated movements, is just another playing card in the deck for the establishment. It’s not paranoia, it’s a well-used strategy. If a group seems to be working against its own self-interests there is a probability that it is faux. For example, the SDS started out legit. The Weathermen weren’t. CORE, yes. The SLA, no. Black Panthers, yes. The New Black Panthers, no. Malcolm X, yes, but Elijah Muhammed, no.
BLM has been having trouble keeping control of various chapters that spring up. I’ve seen several posts on BLM websites about people claiming to represent BLM who aren’t even known to them. I’m pretty sure that the “protesters” in Seattle on Saturday afternoon, Ms. Willaford et al, are on someone’s payroll to target Sanders.
The whole “say their names” meme doesn’t work when Sanders DOES say their names and spends a good quarter of his speeches directly talking about racial injustice and its manifestations. People who have such inexplicable animus towards Sanders (#BOWDOWNBERNIE being proof) are provocateurs.
Sanders’ programs will require reestablishing a progressive tax scheme. That will cost trillions to the one percent. BLM provocateurs are merely the tip of the iceberg that Bernie will be facing. One thing that I have learned is that the government has a rich diversity program for its provocateurs.