I have been studiously ignoring the Bundy foolishness, mentioning it only once in passing to note that it should be ignored. But I want to briefly respond to Josh Marshall because although I basically agree with what he’s saying, I think he’s missing something important.
The subject is the revelation that the Feds and the Oregon state police are allowing people to come and go from the bird sanctuary, which prevents them from running out of supplies. It’s true that this could theoretically make the siege last longer except for one crucial detail. It also means that there is no siege.
What the state and federal governments are saying is that these guys can go to the minimart for Hot Pockets anytime they want, which means that they can also just go home anytime they want. Basically, no one is acting like they give a shit about what these protestors are doing.
And this is probably the single most effective way of dealing with these kind of people that has even been conceived. They’ve already gotten a lot more attention than they deserved, which will only encourage the next act of “armed insurrection.” The last thing we need is to turn these folks into heroes or martyrs for some anti-federal cause. Let them get bored and wander on home to gather their scattered cattle.
I understand the sentiment behind the outrage here. The double standard in how these white men are treated and how, say, Tamir Rice was treated couldn’t be more glaring. However, delivering Ruby Ridge Part Deux just to be consistent is maybe the dumbest idea ever written down by a liberal.
The easiest way to end a siege is simply to refuse to besiege them.
Maybe they can be identified and arrested later, at our leisure.
Seems like the last thing we need thrown into the whole insane mix of the political campaign season is a focus on nuts like these guys. Hell, you’ve even got people like Trump saying these guys should just quit and go home.
And then you have poor old guys like LaVoy Finicum, who has apparently tired of focusing the cross hairs of his Winchester on tree trunks and not the chests of Federal agents. After all, he says, “I got cows that are scattered and lost.”
Yeah…don’t we all?
Maybe they can be identified and arrested later, at our leisure.
Still waiting on Bundy the Elder’s arrest warrant…
Exactly this. Ammon Bundy should already be in jail.
Who do they think these guys are? Wall Street bankers?
This is pretty good though:
http://theconcourse.deadspin.com/those-jamokes-in-oregon-arent-terrorists-theyre-jamoke-1750918911
I mean, I essentially agree with that deadspin article, and I also happen to think their form of protest is perfectly legitimate.
But, I do expect the government to do something about it. I wish they’d show this sort of restraint to ALL protesters, especially of color. That’s white supremacy at work!
To repeat, rather than advocating violence against these “jamokes”, LEO’s should exercise this sort of restraint with everyone rather than their consistent and constant escalations. If I see any article talking about “protestors turning violent,” 9 times out of 10 it would be more accurate to say, “Cops turned peaceful protest violent.” Of course, wielding guns at a protest is an inherently violent and purposefully intimidating gesture.
Are the people who are breaking and entering on federal property armed?
If so, it’s sedition. By, like, the very definition of the word.
This isn’t a protest. It’s an armed standoff with the federal government. In other words, the very opposite of legitimate protest.
What needs to happen is unarmed federal officers going in and arresting them. The “protesters” can either then get handcuffed, or commit murder. And then send in some incendiaries and let them become heroes and martyrs for the traitors and scumbags.
It’s not a standoff if the Federal government is eating donuts and checking their iPhones for NFL coaching changes.
Authoritarian nonsense. This event has been compared with Wounded Knee on a fairly regular basis. Members of the Black Confressional Caucus at the time expressed support for that occupation. Were those members of Congresa guilty of spreading support for sedition?
Look, unlike Booman I’m not saying to ignore them until they get bored and go home. But this method of protest is a completely legitimate tactic that has been used here and abroad.
The legitimacy of the Oregon protest is reduced by all the guns being wielded by the protesters, and the protesters’ explicit and implicit threats to shoot LEO’s.
I’ve never seen or heard this event compared to Wounded Knee, much less heard it on a regular basis. But the grievous wounding of a Federal law enforcement agent during the Wounded Knee action also acted to undermine the legitimacy of that protest.
So, if I go and occupy a courthouse with 5 or 6 friends, all sporting AR-15s, you’d consider that a legitmate protest?
Authoritarianism is what the people want. Fascism is how it’s delivered.
Wanting the federal government to not allow terrorists to bring guns into federal property (by the way, federal property is everyone’s property!) is hardly authoritarianism.
Have you sent the Oregon patriots a care package yet so they can continue their legitimate protest of, uh, law and stuff?
Does anybody know if the Feds can put a lien on Cliven Bundy’s cattle? Then Bundy couldn’t make any money when he tried to sell them, and no matter how many Bundys there are, I bet they can’t eat the whole herd themselves.
If part of the Fed’s response it trying not to get anybody shot, this seems like a nice way to go about it.
Fish & Wildlife is, like the agency I work for, part of the Interior Department. My e-mail on Monday included an item from the Secretary of the Interior noting that other Interior agency offices in Harney County are being kept closed. The fact is that there is concern that more of these Righteous Citizens are going to do something stupid elsewhere. You can decide whether keeping perhaps a few dozen Interior employees from doing their jobs for the duration of the “siege” is either a good or reasonable idea. But don’t pretend that the yahoos at the Malheur wildlife refuge are having no effect. Nobody with an ounce of sense is proposing Ruby Ridge Part Deux, Booman; that’s just you setting up a strawman argument. The biggest concern seems to be allowing a precedent to become established. Jeezus, the security at many federal offices, including mine, is nothing more than a locked door….
I do not think “strawman” means what you think it means.
Go arrest these men. Try to starve them out. See how the coverage goes. See whether it gets tenser. See if someone get shot.
Or, monitor them. Identify them. Ask them to leave and let them know the legal penalties for staying, but otherwise do nothing.
Go on with your lives.
We could treat this as a real insurrection or act like these guys are the domestic version of ISIS.
That would be a big mistake. But it’s the basic alternative here.
There are gradations between do nothing and start shooting, sure, but it’s not a strawman argument to urge against risking a shootout.
Yup. They need the enlightened car-chase treatment; what is better, a dangerous pursuit or let them go and track them down at home?
These guys are trespassing and talking a lot of shit. Deprive them of media oxygen and issue a summons later.
Except the local schools have been closed this week due to concerns about these armed men running around in the area; so, it difficult to declare that their is no siege.
There’s a lot of ground between rushing in with tanks and machine guns and just letting a gang of armed yahoos occupy a public facility and wildlife area.
I supported the BLM backing when challenged by the armed Bundy supporters and dealing with how to collect the monies due from Bundy at a later date. Unfortunately, nothing seems to have been done about getting Bundy to pay for those judgments. It’s as if threatened violence worked for the white Mormon and these “militias” have the USG by the short hairs.
“have by the short hairs” – Revisit the Mississippi Plan of 1875 – having Grant by the short hairs was exactly the point.
And it was the diversion of the Indian Wars that allowed them to pin Grant down.
They should send in actual clowns.
This only works because it is winter. If it was summer there would be people expecting to use this wildlife center.
The precedent is terrible. They better go to jail for a LONG time, or later in the year we will have 10 of these situations.
And is there any greater wankers than the grifters Clivon Bundy raised? This is so obviously a bunch of att nation seeking losers trying to enrich themselves.
Bundy and his wife must be so proud.
.
The Mississippi Plan
Hamburg massacre
See how easy the slippery slope to not being able to control violence is. What is the federal government going to do when the Ammon Bundys of the US show up to enforce Voter ID restrictions at minority polling places? Reread the history of 1875.
The double standard does not just apply to the policing of black communities. It applies to the preferential treatment of political movements in which unarmed and peaceful protest is massively suppressed just because it can be without consequence and sedition is tolerated.
Like Gov. Adelbert Ames, I’m not sure what the federal government should do short of shutting down all the seditionists with massive military force, which Ames saw very well would be counterproductive.
I just wanted to point out that we are at that point in the reaction to the Civil Rights Movement and the election of President Obama. We should not kid ourselves about where this might be heading. This is extremely dangerous for American democracy and free and fair elections.
I myself am tired of progressives getting killed in cold blood with no legal accountability, of minorities being killed in cold blood with no legal accountability, of the other-amendment rights of protesters being abused with no legal accountability, but the Second Amendment Solution being legitimated as the equalizer by thieves and deadbeats.
Birtherism was just a lark compared to where I see this going. And it is the GOP that is condoning this slide into fascism just as it was the Democrats who created this strategy in 1875. Yes, the Dixiecrat Democrats, but the Democrats of the time nonetheless.
Please tell me I’m overreacting to the clouds that are assembling. I so much want us to make it through this year with US democratic governance mostly intact.
But the ability to intimidate at will through open carry is exactly where the gun nuts have been heading for a decade. No how do we put that toothpaste back into the tube?
we point and laugh and wait for them to get bored.
It’s that simple.
Why not turn off the heat, or whatever source they get their heat from, and the water?
I thought they did turn off the electricity.
Seems reasonable to me. But I don’t really give a shit either way.
Nope. No power cut-off. Which actually may not be such a good thing as it could damage the property.
There have been several threads on this over at Balloon-Juice. Someone posted that the power feeding the Refuge also feeds homes in the area. It would apparently be difficult to just turn it off to the Refuge.
My take is that it’s still very early, and the place is very remote. There’s no need to rush to wrap this up quickly, but I do hope the FBI is watching and documenting everyone going in and out of the place…
Cheers,
Scott.
People are way too invested in this.
It should be a giant YAWN.
If you don’t give a shit fine but people are pissed about this for good reasons. I respect you Booman but but you’re coming off extremely condescending on this subject.
” … Why not turn off the heat, or whatever source they get their heat from, and the water? … ”
The electricity. Because the pipes would freeze, big damaging mess.
I thought we were already doing that.
When do they get bored by the way?
First they ignore you.
Next they laugh at you.
…
Then they win.
The Federal government should ask for volunteer officers to go in 100% unarmed to arrest these people.
Tell the media exactly what they are doing. Have every cable and network television channel live, as the federal officers go in with only handcuffs.
Enough tolerance of sedition and fucking treason.
Hitler was a fucking joke too, Godwin’s Law be damned.
It’s an occupy for well off ranchers.
Are these ranchers mormons? Heard the LDS issued a statement that they did not support the siege.
There’s logic in what you say but U’d be more likely to buy if SOMEING was done against Cliven Bundy or anyone involved in the standoff. It wasn’t. Not a single thing and when pressed DoJ stonewalled. I’d rather begin a cvil war than let the rightist militia just do whatever they want with no consequences. Thats total surrender and makes me lose faith in the protetive power of the government. If they wont protect me, what am I supposed to do?
Get a gun and stay out of the sun to preserve a pale skin tone.
My skin doesnt go pale.
Here’s what you do.
Ignore them. Go outside. Relax.
That’s great. Then what do you do when the occupy the local courthouse? The statehouse? Is there somewhere you’d draw the line at when an forcible armed takeover over federal property is no longer something to laugh at?
1/6/16, Detroit Free Press – Snyder declares emergency as feds probe Flint water.
This comes after the Mayor of Flint declared a state of emergency last month which covered here along with the background.. It’s appalling to think of the number of children that may have been severely damaged for life by the callous, reckless disregard for people that state government officials imposed on the people of Flint. They are monsters.
apparently a judge ruled that the water bills have to be paid even if it’s poison
There’s been some back and forth on that for a while. In Aug a judge ordered a 35% reduction in the water bills and a month or so later the water district was ordered not to shut off for non-payment. With the reconnection to the Detroit water system in Oct they need to keep the water flowing to flush out the contamination. In the short run, it’s best for the system and residents to pay their water bills, but they should sue the state to collect a significant rebate for the residents.
This really is a case study in why local politics are important and residents should be vigilant in keeping an eye on elected officials and how their communities are being run. Not so easy these days when there is so little quality local reporters.
Marie3, it’s super important to understand that the decision to change the water source for Flint residents was not made by any local official. It was made by the Emergency Manager appointed by the Governor. Look at this reporting from March:
http://www.mlive.com/news/flint/index.ssf/2015/03/flint_emergency_manager_calls.html
“(Flint emergency manager Jerry) Ambrose issued a statement Tuesday, March 24, calling the (Flint City) council’s vote to “do all things necessary” to return to purchasing water from the Detroit Water and Sewerage Department “incomprehensible.”
“Flint water today is safe by all (U.S. Environmental Protection Agency) and (Michigan Department of Environmental Quality) standards, and the city is working daily to improve its quality,” Ambrose’s statement says. “Users also pay some of the highest rates in the state because of the decreased numbers of users and the age of the system.
“It is incomprehensible to me that (seven) members of the Flint City Council would want to send more than $12 million a year to the system serving Southeast Michigan, even if Flint rate payers could afford it. (Lake Huron) water from Detroit is no safer than water from Flint.”
Ambrose’s comments are in line with remarks he and former emergency manager Darnell Earley have made about the potential for returning Flint to customer status with Detroit.
“
I despise these people. Everyone involved, including multiple personnel from the State environmental agency who told Flint residents to shut their traps, nothing to see here.
Everyone responsible reported directly to the Governor.
As I’ve already researched and written about this issue, there’s nothing super important that I don’t already know and understand.
The Flint city council and mayor did approve withdrawing from the Detroit water system in favor a new water authority once that authority built the pipelines. Absent that approval, could the EM or any state authority have arbitrarily turned off Detroit water and turned on Flint River water? How active were members of the city council and mayor when problems began being reported?
Are residents of any community without any responsibility for a state taking over and appointing an emergency manager? Snyder and his gang are evil snakes, but whenever any community begins to come financial stress, that’s when goo-gov and community engagement is most critical and that began before Snyder was elected.
“Absent that approval, could the EM or any state authority have arbitrarily turned off Detroit water and turned on Flint River water?“
YES. That is exactly what happened. The decision to switch from Detroit water to Flint River water was made solely by Emergency Manager Edward Kurtz; the horrible State law empowered the EM to take action without City Council approval. Two subsequent EM’s continued to ignore concerns by Flint residents and leaders, up to and including the March City Council vote and immediate “fuck you!” response by the EM.
“Are residents of any community without any responsibility for a state taking over and appointing an emergency manager?“
In the case of Michigan this decade, the answer to that has been “YES.”
Decisions to appoint Emergency Managers in Flint and other Michigan jurisdictions are completely arbitrary ones. The State law gives sole power to the Governor to determine when Emergency Managers are appointed, who the EM’s are, what powers the EM’s take away from local elected officials, and when powers are restored to the County Supervisors, City Council, School Board and other jurisdictions forced into this intensely anti-democratic move.
The jurisdictions which which received this arbitrary treatment are ones which are highly disproportionately populated by poor minorities. Decisions made in the State budgeting process during Snyder’s term intentionally pulled revenue from these jurisdictions, continuing and deepening their agony from the financial crash. So Snyder and the Legislature took money from their budgets, then put them in a sort of debtor’s prison, only much worse.
When Flint residents and other Michigan voters responded to the horrible EM law by voting overwhelmingly to repeal it in 2012, the Legislature and Governor took immediate action in the lame duck session to re-institute this law, this time tying it to a budget appropriation which prevents the voters from repealing it.
“without responsibility” – more accurate term in this instance of MI EMs is “without agency” and the answer is yes. especially if there are some nice pieces of property – parks etc – to gift to cronies.
Benton Harbor is an exteremely fine example of this. For many years powerful developers had wanted to take lakeside property they could convert into luxury uses, and the City Council had refused to hand the property over for that purpose. Governor Snyder gets the power to install an Emrgency Manager, and well, whattaya know…
Many, many months before the Governor and the State acknowledged that the new water in Flint was poisoning the residents, Governor Snyder’s Chief of Staff is caught in an email acknowledging that Flint residents were being poisoned as a result of a decision made by the Emergency Manager appointed by the Governor.
http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow/watch/state-dismissed-flint-bad-water-test-concerns-597320259868
I would like Federal agents to frog march Little Ricky Snyder out of his offices if the evidence is there to file charges against him and his co-conspirators. I hope the evidence is there and the courage is shown. People responsible for this MUST be severely punished with jail time.
Prosecute them. Give each and every one a felony. Confiscate their guns and vehicles and phones as instrumentalities of a crime. Imagine their anguish when they find that as felons they are no longer permitted to possess firearms legally. That is the message to send these goobers. Oh, and then when they appear in public with their beloved guns, arrest them again.
Also, I am guessing that as persons convicted of federal felonies they might be prohibited from contracting with the federal government. Like, say, a BLM lease.
The Law can be really relentless. The mechanisms are there, Usually the prosecutors office is busy, underfunded, and just puts out fires and prosecutes the strong cases, but if you set it up to really pursue these guys and funded someone to do it, you could make their lives really miserable. There are consequences, and they can be really educational as they take years to play out.
If you understand the sentiment behind people of color being beyond irritated that White gun nut terrorists are being treated with kid gloves while Black protesters get the National Guard sicced on them maybe it’s just time for you and some of your fellow commenters to just sit this one out since the double standard at play here doesn’t seem to bother you all that much (as usual).
Who says it doesn’t bother us? Seems to me it infuriates all, or almost all, of us here.
The attacks on Occupy sites didn’t sit well with us either, but as Occupy protesters were of many racial and ethnic origins and included women as well as men, LEO responses aren’t strictly race based.
I think you and Kennymack1971 (and a lot of us) are on the same page. Booman’s advice to “Ignore them. Go outside. Relax.” doesn’t sit well given law enforcement’s reactions to non-white and progressive protesters, the fact that there has been no follow-up that I know of regarding the Cliven Bundy/BLM affair, and the increasingly widespread condonation (often by new state laws) of whites openly carrying guns for purposes of intimidation.
Yes, it’s fun to make fun of these guys and there’s a strong desire not to repeat Ruby Ridge or Waco, but then again, like good conservatives, they’ll just make up some other example of government tyranny to rail against.
Oh, I’m fucking enraged, and I’m a german/irish/italian white guy.
If blacks, muslims, or college kids were doing this, they’d already be burning to death, or arrested. Perhaps a messy mix.
Instead, right-wing sedition-inspiring pieces of shit have decided that they are above the blah man in a White House.
That people think we should just ignore this is a very big mistake.
I’ve already stated what I think should be done. At the very least, there should be an extremely tight blockade on that property so that they can either give up or fucking freeze/dehydrate to death.
What I actually think should happen involves calling in some volunteers and proving to right-wing treasonous pigfuckers that they aren’t heroes or martyrs, and that their actions have severe fucking consequences.
We either nip this treasonous bullshit in the bud, or it blossoms in our goddamn lifetimes, believe that.
Watch. Bet on it. (h/t to AG).
Tell it, KennyM.
Tell it.
Armed muthaphuckas taking over a FEDERAL BUILDING and nothing is done.
phuck.outta.here.
PHUCK.OUTTA.HERE.
I’m sick and fucking tired of tolerating sedition and treason from right-wing pigfuckers. Enough is enough.
The Federal Government, if it wants to, you know, be a fucking government, needs to ask for 3-4 volunteer officers to go in and arrest these treasonous pieces of shit, 100% unarmed.
Alert the entire media. Fox News. MSNBC, CNN, NBC, CBS, ABC, MTV, ad-fucking-nauseum. Alert the morons in the federal building. Tell everyone that they are sending in 100% unarmed federal officers to arrest these treasonous pieces of shit. And that they should get their cameras rolling, LIVE, and start broadcasting.
Fuck, get some helmet cams, put them on the volunteers. Again, tell the media what you’re doing. Tell the morons what you are doing.
Yes, there would be volunteers. Deputize me as a federal officer and put me on a jet tonight.
And now, allow the scumbag piece of shit coward traitors to decide whether they want to be protesters by getting arrested, or terrorists who commit murder on fellow Americans.
It’s time this bullshit stops, else this Federal/State government thing is essentially over. And no, that is not bluster. If the federal government is too fucking scared to enforce the law…it is absolutely useless and needs to be replaced.
This is coming from a anarcho-syndicalist who thinks all hierarchical organizations have to continuously prove their own validity and necessity. If some hierarchical organization doesn’t have the inherent ability to enforce its own laws, than it need not exist.
Either the federal government is a government, or it is not. Enough of tolerating right-wing sedition.
It literally only encourages them. Good men doing nothing, and all that.
I suspect that you and the other three volunteers would be dead. Then what? Send in tanks and machines guns? That’s what they want.
This do nothing approach of the authorities is totally unacceptable. This is a hostage situation and should be treated as such. Nobody allowed in. Negotiators in voice communications with the occupiers. The penalties for not exiting, hands up, and weapons left behind increased every hour they refuse to surrender.
Look, there are various types of people. Perhaps the fact that no government agency will ever, under any circumstances “deputize” me gives me a little more courage than I otherwise would.
But, it doesn’t change the fact. What you have to be willing to do is flip this “protest” right over and reverse it.
The federal government, upfront and 100% honest, tells everyone on the planet that they are sending in unarmed officers to arrest trespassers. Again, there would be volunteers.
Here’s my take on what would actually happen.
99% Chance: The cowards who’ve already heroized themselves on Facebook (lol) by saying they would be martyrs, are fucking cowards. Really, they’re fucking cowards. Full stop. You tell these morons that unarmed federal officers are coming in, and they aren’t going to shoot. Which is why I’d volunteer. These cowards, knowing that they’d be murdering unarmed people LIVE, wouldn’t do so.
1% Chance: They actually open fire and become murderers. Tell me: if the situation I described happened, do you think these cowards would be considered heroes, or treasonous pieces of shit…and when I say considered, I mean to right-wing idiots who are easily influenced.
The fact that right-wing fascists are calling for these cowards to back off means that they’d be seen for exactly what they are, and wouldn’t be inspirational to the next bunch of Bundy-ites.
The goobers wouldn’t shoot them; they’d take them prisoner and use them as hostages. Making a bad situation worse.
Then you’d have first degree felony charges to level against the criminals occupying federal land because an African Americana is living in the white house occupying the Office of the President, which BTW is the criminals real beef.
20-30 years federal hard time ?
I suspect more than one currently inside would leave then play a part in kidnapping federal agents at gun-point.
At that point FBI hostage negotiations, with the caveat, NO REPEAT of either Ruby Ridge or Waco.
End of Bundism cause they are doing time for felony criminal acts.
On the one hand, yes; this is ridiculous, leave them alone; don’t dignify it. The last thing anyone should do is give them the armed conflict they’re pining for.
But on the other hand, it’s so fucking unfair. A bunch of idiots poaching, burning land etc. with guns, blatantly overstepping local and federal laws, making remarks about Black Lives Matter, which is an unarmed group on the other end of the moral spectrum, dealing with scenarios where totally innocent people (children) get shot dead. It’s totally, obscenely unfair.
So, lock them up! Except that “gives them what they want,” so we can’t. It’s tough to be white in America.
White American men: Having a tougher time at it, since 1865!
#Trump2016
Or:
How conservative Christian white men are the biggest victims in the world.
If a gang of armed yahoos broke into the federal office building where I work in the Portland, Oregon metro area, would Booman be recommending ignoring them and waiting for them to run out of Hot Pockets? I have a very hard time believing that. Yet that is exactly his recommendation for what to do with a gang of armed yahoos who have broken into a federal building in the thinly populated high desert of southeastern Oregon.
BY all means ridicule the yahoos, expose their hypocrisy as they suckle on the teat of federal subsidies. But don’t leave it at that.
I believe that in an earlier commentary, Booman remarked it was absurd for progressives to focus on sedition in rural Oregon instead of events in Saudi Arabia and Iran. Ah, but there is precious little we can do about the tyrants and theocrats in those countries, whereas taking a stand against sedition at home might actually matter .
I suspect a big part of the problem is that the majority of the people (whites) in law enforcement and the military actually support these guys to some level, even if they may disagree with this specific action. Therefore, getting them to take any sort of serious action against Clive or his son won’t actually work.
Recognize that the right wing, while only a minority, actually is a substantial majority of all the official armed organizations in the country.
This is not going to end well.
It’s why I always say that the Second Amendment is a two-way street.
If this kind of thing continues every few months with no repercussions, expect more of it.
The implication of Booman and some commenters is that the only two options are a Ruby Ridge-type siege or inviting the morons to stay as long as they like. The approach I thought they were going to take was to just block the road, stand back and wait for them to surrender. That seems quite sensible. Telling protesters that they can go home any time they like is understandable and a good way to de-escalate, but this is an armed takeover of Federal land.
As long as they’re arrested and prosecuted for their criminal activity, I’m okay with this approach.
There’s another important distinction to be made with Ruby Ridge: Randy Weaver’s bunch precipitated the event by murdering a federal marshall. This has not happened in Oregon (yet) and one hopes that continues.
Seems to me that there’s a lot of ground between a Waco/Ruby Ridge siege and just doing eff all and letting these yay-hoos go home with no consequences, which is what happened with the armed stand off w/ the Bundy Klan in Nevada.
Pointing, mocking and laughing is certainly worthwhile in this situation, but let’s not ignore that these yobs are armed and threatening violence against the govt. That’s sedition as has been pointed out.
My beef (yeah bad pun) is that absolutely nothing happened to the Bundy Klan after the last stand-off. NADA. That was terribly wrong, esp given the fact that Bundy hadn’t paid his legitimate land use fees in well over a decade. The govt turned tail and ran away. WTF??
Do seriously think that didn’t encourage Bundy Fils that this would be a smokin’ great opportunity to pull off a similar activity?? That’s the big issue here: no effen consequences.
I won’t even go into the utterly depraved unfairness of how these WHITE ARMED MEN are being treated with kid gloves, while I’ve personally witnessed Occupy & BLM protestors (I was protesting alongside) being mistreated, tased and the like in my home town. Outrageous, but covered elsewhere.
Why are there only two solutions: a) Ruby Ridge or b) nothing whatsoever, let the sh*ts go with no consequence while we chuckle benignly over their silliness.
I think there should be consequences, and Cliven Bundy should have a lien against his herd of cattle. There are things that can happen, but I won’t hold my breath that these sh*ts will suffer anything remotely similar to what happens routinely to minorities or those considered to be “left.”
Continuing to set a very bad precedent and encourage more of the same to happen.
Link from Southern Poverty Law Center about militias:
militias
I just listened on Oregon Public Broadcasting to part of a public meeting held last night in Burns, the metropolis of 2800 near the Malheur wildlife refuge. Lots of sympathy for the yahoos expressed, but also a clear desire that they GTFO.
The idea of just waiting them out seems to have some merit. But not arresting them when they come out of the mini mart with food in their hands is beyond silly and makes the strategy seem more like “letting the guys with guns do what they want”. What did they do about Cliven Bundy after all? This strategy may work well here but long term has some serious issues.