(This will be posted at Daily Kos tomorrow morning at Noon EST)
We’ve all had various reactions to Kos’ The Ides of March post in which he essentially told Sanders supporters to STFU and move on to the general election with Hillary as the nominee. Here is mine.
First, I had an experience when Markos Moulitsas expressly put pressure on the owner of a another progressive website at which I was a front page poster to knock off my criticism of him. It was a direct attempt at intimidation of that person and me. The goal was to censor what I could or could not say, not at Dkos, but elsewhere on the internet, on a blog he did not own, where he didn’t make the rules.
However, forgive me if I don’t jump right into that particular unpleasant memory. Because before we get to it, some context regarding the image of Kos as a grassroots progressive versus the views and actions of the real Markos Moulitsas bears repeating. Because, in all honesty, Kos’ recent actions to silence supporters of Bernie Sanders, one that has led to a large exodus of many prominent and not so prominent Kossacks to other sites, did not surprise me in the least. I’ve had doubts about him as far back as 2006.
That’s right boys and girls, men and women, my biggest surprise was all the gnashing of teeth when Kos issued his edict that, after the March 15th, it was time to move on to the general election — i.e., no more Hillary “bashing” whatever the hell that means. After all, wasn’t he the proprietor for the biggest, bestest progressive blog on the intertubes? Wasn’t he the leader of a progressive, grassroots online revolution dedicated to Crashing the Gates of the hidebound old style control of the Democratic Party the then existing Democratic Party establishment?
If the 2004 Democratic primary represented one milestone in the democratization of strategic thinking, “Crashing the Gate,” by Jerome Armstrong and Markos Moulitsas Zúniga, is another. Armstrong and Moulitsas are self-conscious outsiders, successful liberal bloggers determined to overthrow the “Beltway mafia” that runs the Democratic Party in Washington.
However, for those of us who have participated on this site for a long time many of us have long held the opinion that Kos’ progressive and grassroots credentials are nothing more than smoke and mirrors. Crashing the Gates wasn’t a program for initiating a revolution within the Democratic Party. Far from it. It has always been about certain individuals (i.e., people like Markos Moulitsas himself) making it past those gates and into the inner sanctum of power. Case in point: Markos’ “essay” posted at Cato Unbound on October 2, 2006 (the same year he published Crashing the Gates, and a month before the 2006 midterm elections) entitled “The Case for the Libertarian Democrat”. If that term, Libertarian Democrat sounds like an oxymoron to you, well just read Markos in his own words:
It was my fealty to the notion of personal liberty that made me a Republican when I came of age in the 1980s. It is my continued fealty to personal liberty that makes me a Democrat today. […]
Like me, these were people who didn’t instinctively reject the ability of government to protect our personal liberties, who saw government as a good, not an evil, but didn’t necessarily see the government as the source of first resort when seeking solutions to problems facing our country. They also saw the markets as a good, not an evil, but didn’t necessarily see an unregulated market run amok as a positive thing. Some of these were reluctant Republicans, seeking an excuse to abandon a party that has failed them. Others were reluctant Democrats, looking for a reason to fully embrace their party. And still others were stuck in the middle, despairing at their options—despondent at a two-party system in which both parties were committed to Big Government principles.
Ah yes, people despondent about “a two party system in which both parties were committed to Big Government principles.” I don’t remember being on of those people, and I suspect many of you were not either. Now fast forward a few years. Suddenly we have a bunch of Democrats who publicly support privatizing our public school system. Arne Duncan, President Obama’s Education Secretary, to name but one high profile Democrat (see, also, Andrew Cuomo, to name another). Who considered that over-regulation of the financial sector, even in the wake of the 2008 financial collapse, like Larry Summers, President Obama’s Director of The Council of Economic Advisers, who actively opposed it as unnecessary and unwarranted. Along with Tim Geithner, he eventually succeeded in reducing the influence of Elizabeth Warren inside the administration, which ultimately led to her decision to resign and pursue a career in the Senate.
Point being this is exactly the type of people Markos was referring to as fitting the label Libertarian Democrats. Yes, I know there are those of you who will point to the fact that Kos also claimed Libertarian Democrats recognize we need protection also against corporations and powerful individuals who would impose upon our personal freedoms. But some corporations seemed to find favor with Markos:
My libertarian tendencies have always found a welcome home in the Silicon Valley culture (and in all of the nation’s great technology centers). It is a place where hard work and good ideas trump pedigree, money, the color of one’s skin, nationality, sex, or any of the artificial barriers to entry in most of the rest of the world. It is a techno-utopia that, while oft-criticized for a streak of self-important narcissism, still today produces the greatest innovations in technology in the world. Where else could such a motley collection of school dropouts, nerds, brown people (mostly Indian), and non-Native English speakers (mostly Chinese), not just rise to the top of their game, but dominate it? This is free market activity seemingly at its best, and it works precisely because these individuals are able to take risks and be judged by the results of their work, rather than be judged by who they are, where they’ve been, or who they know.
Funny how some mega-corporations are better than others, though we’ve seen Big Tech resort to the same intensive lobbying and legalized bribery as Big Oil and Wall Street. I guess it all depends on the business you’re in, eh Markos?
However, more importantly, actions speak louder than words. When push has come to shove, Markos more often than not chooses the less progressive alternative and tells the rest of us to deal with it. And no, I am not just referring to his bias and the bias of the majority of front page posts in favor of Hillary Clinton since before she announced her candidacy. How about when he was all for the public option during the debate on health care reform — until he wasn’t.
We’re not talking what we really wanted – we really wanted single payer – so we already compromised from our position,” Markos said at the time. “I think the public option at this point is sort of our Waterloo. This is where we stand and fight.”
Yesterday, Markos buckled.
He fell into line with the corporate Democrats, arguing that it was Dennis Kucinich (D-Ohio) who is to blame.
That would be Dennis Kucinich – the only member of Congress who supports single payer and is willing to stand up to his party and say no to the insurance industry bailout that is Obamacare.
“And I`m going to hold people, like Dennis Kucinich, responsible for the 40,000 Americans that die each year from a lack of health care,” Markos said on MSNBC last night. “And I don`t care if you`re a Republican or you`re a conservative Democrat or you`re somebody like Dennis Kucinich. The fact is, this does a heck of a lot for a lot of people.”
Now let’s be clear here. Markos had no influence in the decisions made by Democrats in Congress and the Obama administration to accept the compromises in the ACA that ultimately passed. Nonetheless he could have been a strong advocate for the more progressive, and frankly much better reform bill, that would have included a public option. Instead he chose to do this — a vile, personal and utterly unnecessary attack on Dennis Kucinich.
[I’m going to hold] people like Dennis Kucinich responsible for the 40,000 Americans that die each year from a lack of healthcare. And I don’t care if you’re a Republican or you’re a conservative Democrat or you’re somebody like Dennis Kucinich. The fact is, this does a heck of a lot for a lot of people. And like I said, it’s not perfect, it definitely needs to be improved, but it’s a first step. And God knows, it’s taken us a long time to even get our toe in the door, given the corporate interests that are arrayed against any kind of real reform. So I think this is a first step. It’s definitely not the end of the path. It’s not the ideal solution. But we are—our foot’s in the door. And if somebody like Kucinich wants to block that, I find that completely reprehensible.
Now Markos had every right to deice to fold his tent on the public option, but why go after Kucinich, who had a little influence on the final bill as Markos himself did? One can only speculate, but it has the distinct and unpleasant odor of a man trying to curry favor with Democratic party leaders by kicking one of Obama’s few critics in Congress, Dennis Kucinich, for no good reason.
But those are just a few of the warning signs that Markos was not all he claimed to be. My real eye opener regarding his character is a very personal story that involves the time Markos tried to get me to shut the eff up on a matter I felt he handled extremely poorly: The Kathy Sierra incident. For those of you who are not familiar with what happened to her, here is a brief recitation of the facts from Geek Feminism Wiki:
Kathy Sierra used to have a technology blog, Creating Passionate Users. In March 2007 she announced that she was cancelling her appearance at O’Reilly ETech. Sierra had been regularly criticised on websites including meankids.org on technical matters. At some point at least one anonymous poster escalated the criticism and expressed their desire for Sierra’s death, together with an image of her with a noose. The same poster had made violent sexual suggestions about her. Sierra explained that the threats had terrified her.
The incident sparked a significant amount of discussion around cyberbullying and harassment issues especially around the issue of weblogs not allowing hostile environments to arise in their comment sections. […]
Daily Kos founder Markos Moulitsas infamously dismissed Sierra and the threats made against her.
The infamous and frankly misogynist remarks Markos made in April 2007 regarding Ms. Sierra that are referred to above apparently have been scrubbed from the website. As have many of the posts that called him out on it (which I did find surprising). Prior links to his comments about Kathy Sierra now take you to a post from April 2004 about the Colorado Senate Caucus. However enough people responded to Kos’ diatribe against Ms. Sierra, that you can get the gist of his tone deaf and dismissive response to the death and rape threats made against her.
Dude, this post is messed up. I agree with you that the proposed blogger code of conduct is asinine, but it certainly doesn’t follow that Kathy Sierra (or any other women who are threatened with death, rape, or frivolous lawsuit, ahem) are making shit up or overreacting or (as you kind of imply) being hysterical.
Maybe, despite being a major blogger, you haven’t spent much time thinking about the specific online experiences of women. In which case, you should know that women online–not just bloggers, but women in chat rooms or commenting on blogs or on internet forums–get twenty-five times more harassment than men do. That’s not 25%; it’s 2500%.
In other words, no; you haven’t gotten “your fair share” of this kind of thing. Not even close. And good for you; no one should have to put up with that crap. But when your own experience of harassment is, relatively speaking, very minimal, it’s really easy to tell other people that they should just ignore it. It’s hard to realize exactly how much cultural energy is devoted to teaching women to be afraid.
Here was my response on Booman Tribune in which I simply asked him to do the right thing:
You wrote this post without seriously examining the facts that created the controversy in I understand that any blogger can make this kind of mistake.
You saw an issue that might impact your business, and the free speech of all online bloggers. You wanted to come out strongly against any regulation or censorship of online speech. And that’s a reasonable and laudable position to take. You just happened to pick the wrong incident to exploit for that purpose, as many others across the liberal blogosphere have noted. Perhaps Jessica at Feministing said it best:
[I]t’s one thing to argue–as Markos does–that a blogger code of conduct would be ineffective. Fine. But dismissing online misogyny and Sierra’s experience (without even bothering to do any research on the subject, to boot) is reprehensible.
[…]
So, what should you do now? You could ignore the criticism, or make excuses for your error, like Don Imus and his loyal gang of sycophants have tried to do in the case of the racial slurs the I-Man directed at the Rutgers women’s basketball team. You could claim you were misunderstood, or that people took your words out of context, or employ any of a number of other rhetorical devices to obfuscate and obscure that what you wrote about Ms. Sierra was fundamentally wrong. In other words, you could act like Hillary Clinton has done regarding her vote to give Bush the authority to invade Iraq.
But that wouldn’t be right, and I think in your heart you know that. So do the right thing.
Apologize, without any conditions or excuses, to Kathy Sierra and to all the women bloggers whose characters have been sullied by your callous and ill considered remarks. Publish another front page post at your blog admitting that you were grossly mistaken when you made light of the severity of the vicious verbal attacks and threats posted online against Kathy Sierra, and implied that her legitimate response to such inexcusable and terrifying abuse resulted from a lack of testicles on her part.
Man up, in other words. It’s not a sign of weakness to admit one’s mistakes. It’s a sign of maturity, a demonstration that you are big enough to admit that you were wrong. A lot of people, whether they like you personally or not, will respect you if you do. Even more important, I think you’d respect yourself a lot more, too.
I didn’t post that to Daily Kos at that time because I was afraid any comments to my post by a divided membership would prove counterproductive. Instead, I sent Kos an email which included the link to my post at Booman Tribune, informing him I would welcome any comment or response he chose to make to my post. I also told him that I would post it to Daily Kos if he requested me to do so. I heard nothing from him. Nada. Zip. The next day, I posted a follow-up to my original post, in which I asked a number of prominent progressive bloggers at that time to reach out to Markos and try to get him to retract his ugly remarks. Again, no response — to me, that is.
Instead Markos contacted Martin Longman, the proprietor of Booman Tribune by email. He told Martin in no uncertain terms that further web posts by me about this subject would cause damage to Martin’s relationship with Daily Kos and to Martin’s relationship with Markos personally. In effect, he was telling Martin to make me STFU regarding the controversy over Markos’ commentary on the Kathy Sierra affair, or else. Regrettably, my emails on this were lost when I transferred my data to my (at that time) new computer in 2009. But I remember it well. The stark nature of the threat as Martin explained it to me was obvious. So, to my shame and regret I did what Martin asked. I STFU about Kos and Kathy Sierra.
Why am I telling you this story now? Because you should know what the guy who makes the rules at because its his blog really thinks about silencing voices he doesn’t like, whether they are the progressive voices of Sanders supporters, or people who call him out on his bullshit. Despite the cuddly face he displays to the world, he is at heart a bully. Whether you remain a member here or not, read posts at this site or not, remember that. When push comes to shove, Kos could give a damn about you. He won’t admit mistakes, and he will so his nest to intimidate and censor people (or try to) through whatever means are at his disposal, even people who do not post criticisms of him at his blog but elsewhere on the internet, if he feels he can get away with it.
I gave up on the big Orange Satan some time ago. Markos is a dictator, although it’s his blog, so I guess he can do what he wants. Markos wants a Veal Pen of dittoheads who’ll go along with what his belief system (or what he’s paid to push his dittoheads to believe/do) is.
No thanks.
I think there’s PLENTY of room for dissent and opposing viewpoints, and I don’t want to “belong” to a party that has draconian views and forces me to go along to get along because that’s what is “best” for all concerned.
Once Obama was elected, he went into hyperdrive about no one criticizing dear leader, and I was gone.
I do swing by once in a while to read some posts of writers that I like. And I do truly appreciate the “debate” coverage (I use scare quotes in terms of whatever the bun fight is w the R team). I read it; it’s helpful. Thanks.
Comments there are usually not that interesting, frankly. No offense. I mostly don’t bother with the comments. For the “average user” comments, I get a lot more out of comments here and some other blogs I frequent.
I was actually way more surprised that Markos permitted as much discussion about Sanders as he has so far. I fail to see how or why ONLY discussing Clinton inures to the benefit of all concerned. Guess the Clintons paid him off. That’s MY take.
frankly, I don’t think the horse race is over, and Markos’ obvious effort to censor real discussion about this primary race doesn’t sit well with me. I mean, I believe in the First Amendment, myself. But maybe the CIA taught Markos a different set of rules.
JMHO, of course. I never comment at Orange. Not my style.
100% agree with all you said. Marie3 and I were kicked out long ago, but I should let her speak for herself. As for me, I regard being kicked out as a badge of honor.
I do read it for the news.
You write:
Me too.
Except I don’t read it for the news.
Or for anything else..
Ever.
Why?
Here’s why.
He pushes and pulls the content of his so-called progressive blog for his own self-inflation. Once censorship of the type he practices is put into place, nothing can be considered truthful. He’s just another neoliberal troll as far as I am concerned. A paid disinformation agent.
AG
I was evicted by a gang of bullies that had been trolling me for months when I made an intemperate comment that was perceived as racist and the pile began. I wasn’t given an opportunity to explain before being banned. Zero acknowledgement that a racist could have been there for almost ten years without once ever having made a statement that anyone perceived as racist. Understand that others have been let back in if they groveled enough to TPTB. I don’t grovel. Plus it’s much nicer here.
That should have been “the pile on began.”
Neglected to mention that the gang that was behind getting me banned was later banned en masse. Don’t know why but they must have gone after someone with some power.
I have to say, its important to distingush between Markos and his blog, there are lots of great people over there, and, for me, it was a bastion of sanity during the Bush years. Kos is behaving like a dick, and it will cost him. His biggest mistake is thinking its “his” blog, its the communith that makes it good or bad. The worst thing that can happen to him is at he succeeds in driving out people put of the blog, and it becomes a sycophantic quasi-establishment outlet. If that happens, after a while, a vibrant progressive community will settle somewhere else. Maybe here. As Marie3 said, its much nicer
War! War to the knife! Big-Endians v. Little-Endians!
Let the casting of anathemata begin.
Markos has never been one to put his thoughts in an artful manner. Having been reading the blogosphere on and off for the past ~12-13 years and being a very participatory member of dKos when I was in college (2004-2008), it’s not surprising that passions get heated, but that when things start going off the rails, Markos tends to make it very clear what his opinion is and make it a ‘take it or leave it’ proposition.
Ultimately, Daily Kos is his website. Markos is not the epitome of being a progressive / liberal saint by any means. Yes, he’s a self-promoter, but at least he has stayed true to the cause (just look at what happened to folks like Matt Stoller, Jerome Armstrong, and Jane Hamsher – a lady who actually threatened to sue me over something I posted that was unintentionally misunderstood in 2006). He’s always been clear about the ‘more and better’ Democrats ethos, and ‘more’ is always #1 on his list. I think his view is that after March 15, when it’s likely that Clinton will have an insurmountable lead in delegates – far ahead of Obama’s margin in 2008 – and that the internecine warfare, especially from the Sanders side (which IMO has been far more virulent / passionate with regards to this race) has got to quiet down. I don’t think he would take this measure if the Sanders supporters were being reasonable the majority of the time.
The fact of the matter is, though, that we have a lot of other things we need to devote our energy to. Every day that is a delay in filling Scalia’s seat is another lost opportunity for us. Another day that we are screaming back and forth amongst each other is another day we are not focused on amplifying the incredible negatives of the policies of the GOP side – especially important because it seems like Ted Cruz has a prayer now after this weekend, and he is the definition of an extreme right-winger. I fully understand why people support Sanders (even if I don’t), but the fact is: Bernie is down by more than 200 pledged delegates right now (at least looking at Wikipedia’s count). Hillary was NEVER down by that much in 2008, and you can bet that if she was more than 200 down, the calls for her to get out would have come a lot sooner. After March 15, Bernie is almost certainly going to be down more – a lot more – and there is no way he is going to make up that margin, especially when the biggest states left (California + New York) are states he simply will not win.
Markos’ call is ultimately a call to come to grips with the math – and the math in ~1.5 weeks’ time will reflect that Bernie has no shot. Sure, he can campaign up until the last contest in mid-June, but what does that achieve? It gives his supporters false hope and will keep the party further divided. I’m sure Markos probably didn’t even give two thoughts (or even two shits) about writing a missive that would satisfy everybody or anybody, but that has been his style since he started dKos back in 2003. It really should not be a surprise to anyone now.
Continuing to contest the nomination nets him more delegates. More delegates means influence on the party platform planks, and partisans in key positions at the DNC.
Bernie is not a Democrat and has never demonstrated an interest in building up any kind of political movement in his 25+ years in Congress, even in Vermont, so you’ll have to pardon me if I am cynical about it being even a remote concern of Bernie and his campaign.
This is fine as long as he stops attacking Clinton. He’s lost. He is miles behind and he is running out of small white states to win.
The 200 delegates is a huge lead when delegates are distributed proportionately. Bernie doesn’t just need wins in some big, diverse states he needs big wins. Instead of winning big, he’s very likely to lose each of the next seven states. After that, I don’t think anyone will be able to pretend Bernie can win.
If he wants to keep fighting to get more delegates, fine. I don’t think he will accomplish much after everyone can see it is hopeless. (The media will stop paying attention. Hillary will have problems getting heard as the Trump media storm intensifies.) But Bernie can have at it as long as he doesn’t pretend he can win and as long as he lays off on the winner.
Once it is clear that there is a nominee, it does not make sense to waste Democratic resources on campaigns over the nomination.
“He’s always been clear about the ‘more and better’ Democrats ethos, and ‘more’ is always #1 on his list.”
EXACTLY!!!!
Once the MORE is in place, the BETTER can begin to display itself.
Trying to be too pure, too soon, that is not the best order of priorities.
Don’t get me wrong, though – it’S FREAKING GREAT that Sanders has pushed Clinton to the left – to remind her that there IS a lot out to the left!
So, thanks, Bernie, for that! Being the conscience of the left is in itself an honorable and good thing to be.
I HOPE that Hillary is left-chastized enough to move that way after January.
(And don’t forget, in terms of ‘more’, the GOP this year is pushing MANY to join our ‘more’. THAT HELPS.)
Thank you Steven D, I appreciate the story.
If you are trying to build a coalition with the Sanders people – who are at this moment far and away the most energetic force left of center – why would you deliberately try to shut them up. It really doesn’t fricken matter who is on the reclist at DKOS. DKOS barely matters itself.
The goal is try to form common cause and find Senate and House seats worth fighting for once Jun 9th rolls around.
This is pretty self-evident to anyone not motivated by some personal interest. Trying to shut us up won’t work, and it is counter-productive. In fact, if you know the people attracted to Sanders in the first place, you know the LAST thing you do is try and do something like Markos just did.
The whole thing reeks of an absurd self-importance. Give credit to Markos and what he created – but there is an attitude that suggests he thinks the Sanders people are idiots who need to shut up.
He’s part of the power structure now. G-S owns him too.
I am in support of Sanders and anyone that tries that technique with me should listen up. I will support whoever I choose to support. By the way Hillary if chosen as the Democratic Party Candidate will NEED, I repeat NEED my support and all the others supporting Sanders now to win. If you feel threaten us to SHUTUP and get in line for Hillary NOW is going to make us want to jump at your command. Then you should know that you are very much mistaken. Hillary supporters like Kos are doing way more damage to Hillary’s campaign then any GOPer could.
Hey Kos take your own advise or at least half of it. Apologize to ALL of the Sander supporters and SHUTUP!
“…Hillary if chosen as the Democratic Party Candidate will NEED, I repeat NEED my support and all the others supporting Sanders now to win.”
No, not really.
The Democrat will START from 242 electoral votes and only needs to win 28 to win the Presidency. The electoral vote Blue Wall is 19 states that have voted Democratic in every Presidential race since 1988 – 6 elections. NONE of those 19 are not going over to Trump or Cruz or Rubio. Florida alone puts the Dem in the WH. 28 EVs is NOT much. The GOP dude, OTOH, has to come up with like 167 or so.
So, Sanders or Clinton, come election day, the DEM is going to win the Oval Office.
Your temper tantrum non-vote won’t make a difference. ESPECIALLY if you are not in a Swing State. Threaten all you want. Reality is what reality is. You holding you breath (or your vote) till you are purple in the face won’t change reality.
The winner of the Democratic nod is going to be Clinton, and she will win the WH in November. And in January or February, she will be naming a successor to Scalia.
Or would you rather have Cruz or Trump or Rubio make that call?
You ain’t winning shit without Sanders supporters, who represent about 30%-40% of the Democratic Party.
Fortunately most of us are smart enough to ignore you.
I could not imagine a less successful argument to try and convince a Sanders supporter to vote for Clinton than the one you are making here.
Wow! Fucking lefties should fold the tent and join the neoliberals under trustworthy Hillary bc TINA. But wait a second. If you don’t need us why tell us to stfu?
Margins of victory matter, so do down-ballot races and political legitimacy. Yeah, HRC could squeak a win while alienating progressives, but then the only thing she will be able to get done is whatever the republicans allow her to do…
Clinton II — just like Clinton I.
Your post is helpful in what way, Steven? Say what you will about Markos on various issues, he and his website have accomplished much that is good. He spoke often about electing more and better Democrats and got us focused on the task at hand.
By the way, I think he was completely right to call out Kucinich and those like him would could sully their pure virgin souls to actually accomplish something that might, oh I don’t know, save thousands of real human lives. Raul Grijalva was my congressman at the time. He knew me by name and by face because of my activism. When he threatened to pull his support on the finished product, I called his office and left a message that he needed to get with it. I’ve no idea if it made any difference, but I was saying essentially the same thing that Markos said to Kucinich.
Now let’s not pull apart but rather let’s work together, first to support whomever becomes the nominee, to defeat whichever sociopath the Republicans put up, and while we’re at it let’s work to get that public option.
I keep waiting for the better Democrats, and lately, I don’t see more either, just less.
White, old and out of step are cleaning the clocks of DNC Dems. But why would you want to attract those millennials?
http://www.dailywire.com/news/2254/check-out-stunning-map-republican-state-dominance-robert-kraychik
“…the task at hand…”
HOW can anyone not see what the task at hand is?
It’s to beat the freaking GOP into the ground. THEIR real world is stopping everything we want to do. So it is necessary to deal with that, and deal with it early on. Kos’ “better” can’t happen until his “more” happens.
Thankfully they are self-immolating before our very eyes.
(I for one, saw that coming many months ago. I thought it would be CRUZ, though! But Trump and the reaction to Trump is doing just fine, thank you…)
The BIGGER task at hand is to undo the bullsh*t the GOP has imposed.
One step at a time. MORE is more important than BETTER. For now. One step at a time. The real world dictates that we respect that and have patience.
Citizens are injured as much or more by their state governments!
Where are those MOAR Democrats? They can’t even field a candidate.
The most interesting thing about this post to me (because as you pointed out, longtime readers know who Kos is) is that Booman caved.
Booman is a good blogger. VERY level-headed.
If you don’t agree, and you have to characterize his actions as “caving” that says scads about you and nothing about Booman.
It was a tough time for him. He needed the networking with other bloggers to make a go of this place. Kos could have done a lot of damage to the frog pond.
Absolutely great quote from FDR.
Love it!
Gee, after March 15 the plane is leveled. Daily Kos will miss all of that.
Never ever got involved with that website. If the guy wants to censor his site, so be it. The net is infinite.
Whine, whine, whine. YES, the Democratic Primaries will effectively be over on Mar 15th, AND YOU KNOW IT.
Sanders is down 1183 to 484.
As Clinton learned to her chagrin in 2008, “It’s about the delegates, stupid!”
So, the inevitable IS that Sanders is going to lose. It’s just a matter of when.
And Sanders supporters, as well-intentioned as they/you are, need to begin to grasps the concept of “It wasn’t enough.”
It’s up to you all individually or collectively, to figure out what is your best option going forward? To drop out and grow cynical? To pretend reality doesn’t exist in Bernielandia? To look at the GOP candidates and pick one out to vote for?
Or to run away and sulk or throw a temper tantrum? And figure out some way to punish Hillary?
How dumb is THAT? Killing your country because you didn’t get what you want WHEN you wanted it – which is now? You all want to run and withhold your votes and improve the chances of a GOoPer in the HW, nominating your next 1 or 2 or 3 or 4 Supreme Court Justices?
All because you are throwing a temper tantrum?
I don’t always say this, but I am 100% with Kos on this one: March 15th, end of the road. Get over it.
Hillary is not the perfect candidate? Oh, really? No shit, Sherlock. If you think Sanders is, wow. You have NO idea how many people will vote against Sanders solely on the basis of his avowed and unrepentant socialism (which I frankly admire the hell out of him for that). 10 million against? 18 million? Sanders makes it FAR too easy to rally round the flag and against his “communism”. No, he’s not a communist, but try selling THAT point in Richmond or rural PA, OH, WI, MO.
Sanders starts out the general election 10 million in the hole. Just what the country needs and the Dems need with Scalia’s vacancy sitting there.
REAL WORLD. There is a real world out there. One in which Hillary has been fighting the dragons of the GOP for 40 years. While Sanders has sat on the sideline throwing verbal barbs from his hermitage.
Kibitzing and Monday Morning QB is easy – until you have to get into the fray. Sanders has never BEEN in the fray, has no idea what it is like to have to construct deals, to do the POSSIBLE instead of the dropping the ball.
Kumbayah doesn’t solve anything.
If you simply ask, “What have you done lately?” about Sanders, NO ONE knows what he has done lately.
He hasn’t DONE enough to merit the nod.
I shudder to think where the USA would be if Reid and Clinton and Schumer and Pelosi (also a very flawed pol) had not been there to fight to hold back the GOP bat shit crazies. Give me a soldier ANY time, over a guy whose big deal is vague promises that we all know he can’t make happen in the real world. Not in this time.
Kos’ judgment looks pretty good from where I stand. Maybe in his old age he is getting pragmatic. All of you will, or you are going to be sore disappointed in the real world.
Well I guess we know who you support. Nice collection of every half-baked talking point against Sanders and for HRC. Thanks for that at least.
Do you honestly think that the GOP doesn’t ALREADY have ads about Sanders being an “America-hating communist”?
I’ve seen one myself, a month ago.
That isn’t even the tip of the iceberg.
We are talking The Red Scare, redux.
On the other hand, they’ve got nothing to throw at Clinton. They used it all up attacking Bill.
Bengazi? Piffle. She chewed ’em up and spit ’em out in her 11 hours. If they want to waste campaign time on that, hey, GOP, go at it.
Emails? There is no there there.
I support facing the real world and not thinking everything is going to be perfect come January.
I support kicking the GOP’s AYUSSS come November.
I support restoring the America that the GOP took from us – but it ain’t gonna happen with everyone singing Kumbayah.
Kumbayah comes later.
You sound like a Crackpot Realist.
PERFECT!
You’re free to support Clinton as strongly as you like.
You are not free to lie about Sanders based on what is apparently blatant ignorance of his record in the House and in the Senate.
Give me something.
What has he done?
http://www.ciw-online.org/blog/2008/04/senate_hearing/
There’s a very long list of things that Sanders has done, both in his district, in his state, and in the country.
Not all of those votes are perfect, not everything he’s done is “right” — but he’s done a lot of really damn good stuff.
Just one of very many:
Yes Hillary looks to have the power to win. I expect that will be the outcome. But for me she has to win more in the north like she did in Massachusetts. Winning southern and border states doesn’t impress me, nor do allocations of super delegates. But let her do that. I don’t like being told who to support. In the end there is a good deal of dissatisfaction in this country and Sanders speaks directly to that. Shit even dumb ass Trump speaks to it. If nothing more Sanders carries the message for millions, and it should be heard. This is a case of prove it. So don’t tell me to stfu.
She is NOT drawing new voters. And if the Southern vote is designed to select our presidential candidates and keep us conservative, I wish Dems might hitch their stars to a set of more reliable mid-term voters.
Technically, in the states where enough data is available to evaluate, she’s losing voters that she had in ’08.
There is indeed a battle for the soul of the Democratic Party and advocates for the people are losing it. The Democratic party is losing the last vestige of soul that it had. It has morphed into your father’s GOP.
It is still a Rainbow Party, but that is strictly for votes. The only color that really counts is Green.
Nobody goes there any more — it’s too crowded.
Yogi Berra.
DK has a lot of rodeos like this. I read Booman Tribune to avoid this stuff.
Interesting post Steven. I am sorry for your travails over at dKos. It puts me in mind of many faculty meetings I have attended, where the backbiting, gamesmanship, and overall viscousness is often inversely proportional to the stakes involved.
I still enjoy browsing though the articles over there from time to time, but am happy not to have to deal with the editor. I guess he is allowed to run his site however he pleases, but I’m skeptical he will be successful with this particular ploy of his.
Thanks Steven for this piece, and thanks to Martin for continuing to tolerate voices from the left even when he finds them irritating and bothersome.
While I hung out at dKos for a long time (too long actually), it was reasonably clear early on that he wasn’t an authentic liberal/progressive. Pegging his political orientation was a bit like pegging Hillary’s because he was all over the map and his Republican roots were never completely covered. In retrospect, he was just a wannabe entrepreneur of the “don’t tax or regulate me” bro variety that got lucky with a blog. One that reached enough critical mass that he could afford to be responsive to his customers’ requests for upgrades and more bells and whistles and was savvy enough at business to do it.
I stopped paying attention to anything he wrote sometime in 2003. None of it was particularly interesting and definitely not perceptive. What I did miss, possibly because of decades of working with men not too different from him, was his tolerance for bullies that were politically in alignment with him. All men and tinged with the sort of misogyny that’s too subtle or elusive to call out. Those were the “Clarkies.” While Kos will deny it, and made enough contradictory statements in real time, he was a “Clarkie.” A faux “let’s draft a he-man retired general for POTUS” because Ike won. On paper it was a stupid idea. Once Clark got on a debate stage, it was even dumber. But no less ridiculous than Kos’ claim several years later to be a “Libertarian Democrat.”
From a customer base business perspective Kos’ edict that the DEM primary ends 3/15 isn’t his brightest idea. It contradicts his long-standing tolerance for all sorts of stupid stuff that did increase and keep eyeballs. OTOH, it reflects a confidence that his customer base is big and strong enough that he doesn’t need all those DFHs. He is now a big enough cheese that he can be part of the DEM institution/elite power that has never been as monolithic in my lifetime as it as become in this election cycle. Not the Will Rogers’ Democratic Party anymore. Winning has become everything even if the win isn’t worth a bucket of spit to 90% of those that vote D.
This time the GOP Party is having trouble bullying their rubes to get in line, but Democrats are doing just fine with the bullying. Or so they think.
Every time there is an incident at dKos, we are gifted with a few more progressive blogs, some of which will form the next generation of the progressive movement.
What happened to Kathy Sierra has become the bane of strongly opinionated political women on Twitter. Apparently Markos’s opinion is more broadly representative of a certain group of tech-oriented social media males.
The Democratic Party is trying as hard as the Republican Party right now to destroy itself. It is symptomatic of a decadent political process dominated by money and media and not in any way properly a “political” process. It is also symptomatic of what happens when “earning a living” from politics comes to dominate political opinions. Especially when it is the exclusion of the public from the political process that populism protests and progressive solutions seek to address.
According to the most recent information, my options in voting for members of Congress do not include the Member of Congress I have voted for as long as he has been in Congress (twenty years). Things are so confused with the incomplete court challenge here that I am not clear which districts I am in, but know who the candidates who will be on my ballot are. Or at least their names. A classic example of the game “Pin the tail on the donkey.” Blindfolded with a tail on a pin.
I’m still expecting catastrophe for both parties out of this election. How different the mood is from 1960. Small horizons and mean spirits.
I’m in agreement with Marie3’s perceptions here re. Daily Kos, and gained some good historical information from her post here.
I go over there to read the front page posts, but the commenters have failed to engage my interest. The fire hose of volume also causes comments to get buried quickly, and increases the chance that hostile commenters will come onto the threads and ruin them.
OTOH, I and the supermajority of Democratic Party members have simply made a decision that placing devil’s horns on Hillary is unwarranted. Bullying has nothing to do with that.
I started reading Daily Kos when it was still on Movable Type and Markos was the lead blogger of three. (I think Billmon and Steve Gilliard were the guest bloggers then. I wish Steve were still around, of course, and that Billmon still blogged rather than merely tweeted.)
My UID there under Scoop is 122.
I haven’t read much of anything on that site since 2006. Once the unifying effect of the Iraq War was lost, Daily Kos became an online version of Lord of the Flies, and I bailed out. At this point, I no longer consider it or Markos influential enough to merit a front page post on Booman Tribune. I’m sympathetic to Steven’s point of view, but we have much bigger fish to fry IMO.
Nice to see another very early dKos reader here. To correct the record, Kos was the only person posting what we now call FP pieces from its inception until after the 2002 midterms. More people began showing up in the comments section at that point. Two stand-outs were Billmon and Steve Soto who Kos asked to help him out by posting “FP” pieces. Both were popular and Kos encouraged them to start their own blogs which they did. Gilliard was the first in the next round of guest bloggers.