George Will grew up in Champaign, Illinois, the son of a professor of philosophy who specialized in epistemology, so you can kind of see why he’d describe himself as an “amiable, low-voltage atheist.” His impatience with the otherworldly was probably bolstered while he was pursuing degrees at Trinity, Oxford and Princeton. But, you know, I actually care less about George Will’s rigorous rationalism than his willingness to doubt the scientific consensus on climate change. The fact that he misused data from his father’s university just makes it all the more of a headscratcher.
It used to be a lot easier to be a non-believing conservative. Will may have done his undergrad work at Trinity, but he never believed in the Trinity and yet that didn’t prevent him from attaining mass syndication and a place in the highest firmaments of the Republican commentariat by the mid-1970s.
By the 1990s, when Larry David had Cosmo Kramer mock George Will for being so incredibly handsome and yet not very bright, it was funny precisely because it was the reverse of his reputation. Or, if you were really in the know, it was funny because Will knows what bright is supposed to be, but has never been quite up to snuff in that department.
The real heyday for Will was during the Reagan administration. He got on Reagan’s good side by inappropriately helping him prepare for his debate with Jimmy Carter. But his real in was with Nancy Reagan, with whom he maintained a close relationship throughout the Reagan presidency and thereafter. It’s fair to say that George Will has been one of the Reagans’ biggest and more devoted cheerleaders.
And that’s interesting because Reagan has become the role model for every modern day Republican but George Will cannot stand modern day Republicans. He loathes Sarah Palin and his opinion of Donald Trump could not be any lower.
In fact, he has just penned a column that amounts to a full-throated endorsement of Hillary Clinton.
No, I am not kidding.
Columnists don’t write their own headlines, but this one is accurate and quite telling: If Trump is nominated, the GOP must keep him out of the White House.
Yes, that is actually what Will argues. And he comes out swinging with this opening graf:
Donald Trump’s damage to the Republican Party, although already extensive, has barely begun. Republican quislings will multiply, slinking into support of the most anti-conservative presidential aspirant in their party’s history. These collaborationists will render themselves ineligible to participate in the party’s reconstruction.
When a conservative calls you a quisling and a collaborator, that’s 98mph high cheese aimed right at your head. Notice, also, that there’s a premise laid down here that the party is going to be in need of reconstruction. George Will plans on being present at the creation of this reconstruction team, and anyone who shirked their duty to oppose Trump will be unwelcome.
But that’s all in the future. What about a good conservative’s task right now?
Were [Trump] to be nominated, conservatives would have two tasks. One would be to help him lose 50 states — condign punishment for his comprehensive disdain for conservative essentials, including the manners and grace that should lubricate the nation’s civic life. Second, conservatives can try to save from the anti-Trump undertow as many senators, representatives, governors and state legislators as possible.
Those are strong words. Conservatives should help Trump lose 50 states, meaning presumably that they should speak against him everywhere from the Delta of Mississippi to the mountains of Idaho. That’s a hard charge to give when you’re simultaneously trying to save as many down-ticket Republicans as possible.
If Trump is nominated, Republicans working to purge him and his manner from public life will reap the considerable satisfaction of preserving the identity of their 162-year-old party while working to see that they forgo only four years of the enjoyment of executive power.
Will holds out the hope that Hillary Clinton will go down in 2020, the same way that LBJ and George Herbert Walker Bush went down despite coming into office in considerable positions of strength. For him, the best way to keep that possibility alive is for Trump to lose as badly as is possible. He’s more than willing to throw in the towel on the 2016 election. He’s actually demanding this. Four more years in the executive wilderness is a small price to pay for “preserving the identity of their 162-year-old party.”
This Big Ten professor’s baby obviously has an enormous problem with Donald Trump, and he gives away the game with his remark that Trump getting slaughtered in the general election will be “condign punishment for his comprehensive disdain for conservative essentials, including the manners and grace that should lubricate the nation’s civic life.”
It’s true that Will seems to give equal weight to Trump’s conservative apostasy and his boorish manners, but let’s not forget that this atheistic son of an epistemologist isn’t exactly a down-the-line conservative himself. What does he care about the social conservatives’ agenda? When it suits him to humor them, he humors them, but he’s not a Buchananite or Falwell follower.
Will is embarrassed by Trump’s anti-intellectualism and offended by his crudeness. If Trumpism is what conservatism has become, then he could not be more off the reservation.
And Will is hardly alone. He’s just one of the more outspoken ones who will be openly rooting for Hillary Clinton to win the general election. Sure, it’s true that he sees this as a necessary compromise that will ultimately save the Republican Party to fight another day. But it still means something in the short-term, which is that the GOP has lost control of its central nervous system and has no access to its cerebral cortex.
George Will is widely syndicated and fairly influential, as least as far as columnists can be influential. But, by himself, this wouldn’t be all that consequential.
The problem is that he’s not by himself. He’s not even close to being by himself.
So, Clinton will enter the general election with much of the right-wing intelligentsia rooting her on. And that’s going to be hard for Trump to overcome, no matter what he says.
Having the “right-wing intelligentsia rooting Clinton on” probably suits Trump just fine. Anything that substantially reinforces his ‘outsider’ brand will be welcome, especially if he starts accepting RNC money for his campaign. Aside: That’s going to be an interesting negotiation; for Trump, the party and his constituents who probably still assume he’s paying for it himself (As if!).
He’s got one hell of a lot of heavy lifting to do in any case to be even barely competitive among a general election constituency.
On the other hand, a black-swan event shaking up the economy or jihadi geopolitics could probably reset the frame significantly to Trump’s favour.
You write:
As could a Hillary tanking.
Could happen…she’s got SO many possible negatives hovering over her head!!!
Age + health
Behghazi
Bill
The emails
Her grating persona when the mask comes off
Obama’s many failures…she’s going to have to wear some of them…
Her own vote to pursue the Iraq War debacle
Her many mistakes in foreign policy as Sec. State…at least a number of which are evidenced by the continuing growth of ISIS.
Her truly magnificent payments from big banking interests for speeches.
The contributions to the Clinton Foundation…sub rosa bribes, bet on it…from innumerable quite interested parties, including foreign governments.
Meanwhile, here are her strengths:
The PermaGov Media Wurlitzer will be playing her tune 24/7.
She has a lot of experience in government.
She talks a good liberal talk. But…does she walk it as well?
Dassit. But…are they really strengths in this suddenly upside-downed system? I wonder. An awful lot of people seem to think otherwise.
Now look at Trump’s negatives.
He’s not nice…according to some people, anyway. Others love his act.
He has no experience in government…a plus to well over half of the population, I believe.
Ummmmmmm…getting pretty sparse…
He did business with gangsters…as if that isn’t the primary task of a U.S. president only on a much higher, more sophisticated level of gangsterism.
He ran a sham university for a while. As if the university system in place now is not almost a total banking scam.
His strengths?
Only one, really.
He is everything Hillary Clinton is not
See?
I do, and it seriously scares me.
Watch…and don’t count your blue and purple states until they’re hatched.
There’s many a slip twixt the cup and the lip.
Bet on it.
AG
Hillary’s not my favourite politician, by a long-shot, and her role as leader of the party at a time when clearly a ‘change’ cycle is well under way strikes me as a lost opportunity at the very least. And I’m pretty confident Sanders would have made a safer general election choice. But I don’t think you have to go beyond her obvious strategic alliance with wealth and power to ‘unmask’ her weakness. She’s spent a lifetime actively accelerating her upward mobility at every turn, with considerable success, which is probably a pretty normal aspiration for a Park Ridge Republican, as she was raised. She and her husband founded a global foundation which handles large charitable contributions from wealthy benefactors world-wide. Her daughter, like Ted Cruz, married Goldman Sachs. ‘Upwardly mobile’ doesn’t describe her remarkable trajectory straight to the centres of power.
What else needs to be said? I don’t see any reason to elaborate how unlike-able she is as a personality; it doesn’t do your usual civility justice. These Goldman transcripts her staff keep down-playing are kryptonite to her, I’m guessing. She’s an established player with the expectation of a conventional victory in a dynamic situation with an untested, unconventional opponent fresh from a string of unrelated victories. In military history terms this would be seen as a danger zone.
“Her daughter…married Goldman Sachs.”
Yep, and he’s a Jew to boot.
Jewish fucking bankers. You know what they’re up to.
That was totally inappropriate.
This is not politics as usual, is it? We may well be witnessing something the country hasn’t seen in 150 years: the break up of one of its major partys. I think there are going to be large numbers of down ballot repubs running away from trump as fast as they can. Him, his racism, his xenophobia, hos misogyny, his boorish ignorant schtick, it’s going to be a disaster of epic proportions. Trump will take the tea party over an electoral cliff, but he’s also going to drag some of those down ballot repubs with him. There is going to be a bloodbath. I think Will is hoping against all odds that it will happen at the convention,and the result will be a trumpless ticket. But if not the the blood will flow after the election, heads will roll, and the party that emerges from the chaos will be a different beast.
Another sign of what you say is that prospective running mates are running the other way. There’s a story about this in today’s Times.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/01/us/politics/donald-trump-vice-president.html?_r=0
Still, there are some. I think Christie is a good bet. Palin herself is a possibility. I mean, why not?
Shorter George Will: Conservatism can never fail, it can only be failed…
Honestly, I can’t think of too many things better for Trump than George Will urging the Republican establishment to vote for Hillary. It’s win/win on so many levels for him. But it really must be jarring for poor old George to see Trump tear apart the Frankenstein’s monster of a party that he and his ilk sewed together and thought they could control. I’d be laughing if the consequences weren’t so horrible- For one thing, I believe that the chances for a Trump presidency are higher than most people would care to admit.
I’m fairly sure that even the most vocal #NeverTrump is just a facade for insecure Republicans to attempt to save face with each other.
Trump either gets throatstomped in November, or crushes HRC because Republicans, being natural liars, are simply lying about their disdain of Trump.
Just 190 more days!
“Clinton will enter the general election with much of the right-wing intelligentsia rooting her on.”
And this is a good thing for Democrats.
Yes, it’s just the sign that all the Sanders people have been waiting for . . . oh, wait a second . . .
Good God! I teach rhetoric and composition at a university in western Japan, so words and phrases are fairly important to me. Nothing should be left to nuance, innuendo, nor misinterpretation when trying to make a point. Why would George Will use “lubricate” in any sense of the word, when his beloved Republican Party stands for a brand of Christian Conservatism that often seeks to smite sodomites given any opportunity? The repression that is inherent in that dysfunctional party comes oozing, and clawing to the surface at every opportunity. George, poor word choice, or was your mind focused on something other than the Reagan legacy at the time of crafting that boner of a statement?
Er, I think the word has a somewhat wider meaning
…
http://www.tribocoating.de/What-is-Tribology.79.0.html?&L=2
How wide exactly?
How far apart are Senator Craig’s feet?
Ever notice that when you start finding smutty double-entendres in ordinary phrases, pretty soon it’s almost impossible to find anything that is NOT a smutty double-entendre? That was a lot of fun in junior high school.
We also learned about the “intentionally fallacy”. Or should that be “phallus-y?” — That another thing that “comes in hand”-y, doesn’t it? Wink, wink. Because it doesn’t matter what the author actually meant. How could anybody ever know?
…
Sorry.
It wasn’t you that started it.
The thing is, Will’s fancy vocabulary is a big part of his technique for making people think he must be particularly intelligent. That “lubricate the nation’s civic life” phrase, like a drunk eulogist at a Victorian funeral, is a typical example. It sounds oh-so-cultured but it’s really bad writing.
At the same time, it effectively masks the upper-class frivolity of his complaint, which is that the problem with Trump is his bad manners, rather than his Republican beliefs, many of which Will shares.
That’s why it deserves to be called out and mocked. In Victorian times, the appropriate joke would have been about civic life being lubricated with brandy-and-water. Now we do this stuff instead.
In addition to 20th and 21st c. stuff, I read a lot of things written in the 17th-19th c., so it didn’t sound strange to me at all. It’s just a metaphor meaning “reduce friction in the nation’s civic life.”
I’m not a fan of Will’s at all, he probably is pretentious; I practically never read him, so I don’t have a strong opinion about that. I definitely felt that way about Bill Buckley. If he really had much depth of thought, I might not have minded his pretentious verbiage and mannerisms quite as much.
Methinks George Will was facing a constipated party so full of shit that it can’t move. It cannot even pass a bill. As a majority? So what to do? A purgative and a lubricant.
Next step watch for the GOP signing up specialists in natural colonics for the convention.
I don’t think that’s what folks had in mind when they were talking a month ago about the GOP convention being a big mess. But since George Will has raised the issue…..
This is obviously a smart crowd, here…but all the same, these comments seem overly glib and cynical, and not properly respectful of the scale and import of what’s happening here.
George Will openly advocating that the Republican nominee be roundly defeated (in all 50 states!) is unprecedented, huge. It’s an outrageous position for him, of all people, to take…I can’t think of a more doctrinaire and unflappable voice on the right, yet he still didn’t blink at George W. Bush or even Sarah Palin. The fact that Will sees Trump as a bridge too far, seems seismic to me.
And he’s not just expressing some “regrets” or uncomfortable misgivings, or in any other way trying to paper over mild dissatisfaction. This is a full-bore revolt. It’s not even about the voters or their desires; he’s skipping past all that (unlike, say, Ross Douthat) because the stakes are too high. He’s not wasting time hand-wringing over how we got here; he doesn’t want to dilute his alarmist message with any soul-searching or hand-wringing; he almost seems to be willing to stipulate any of the implicit philosophical self-critiques that would explain the current state of affairs.
I mean, Godwin etc. but if you read any account of Germany in 1933 (von Papen, etc.) — especially Ian Kershaw’s excellent books — you see the same kind of panic, from certain quarters (disastrously, not from anyone with the influence over Hindenberg or the Reichtag to make a difference): We must set everything aside and stop this man. This, right now, is the United States facing this same moment and (hopefully) reacting better then they did then.
That’s your interpretation of Will’s panic, but I don’t see where he even hints at it. What drives this radical proposal, rather, is Trump’s “comprehensive disdain for conservative essentials, including the manners and grace that should lubricate the nation’s civic life.”
Besides, his idea of simultaneously working to dump Trump and to elect down-ticket candidates strikes me as virtually impossible of success, given the nature of today’s Republican electorate.
But, respectfully, I don’t think you’re adequately reading between the lines. Since when have Will or Broder or any of these right-wing pundits ever cared about “civility”? Or worried about levels of disaster that the rest of us found unacceptable (Katrina, 9/11, the late 1980s economy etc.) but that they were unfazed by?
And, this isn’t someone saying “Trump must not be the nominee, because he’ll lose.” That song’s being sung elsewhere, very loudly. Will is saying, never mind all that internecine struggle; Trump must lose the election. The usual deft song-and-dance by which Washington types ignore appalling shortcomings in order to advance their agenda, is entirely missing, here. He’s like George C. Scott at the end of Dr. Strangelove, in the moment when the jingoistic patter suddenly falls away and the true scale of the horror is laid bare.
The ‘true horror’ of failing to stop Trump is George F Will out of a job. And half of all the serious people he knows too. Doesn’t faze me.
Agree this is seismic but the tangible aftershocks seem confined to the Beltway for now. And it was way overdue as seismologists might say.
that’s the horror Will most fears.
But I see little reason for realistic hope that it would actually play out that way. There’s just so much contrary evidence in the form of recent history wherein no record of unrelenting wrongness ever seems to cause so much as a blip in the career of these clowns once they achieve the perch of Corporate Media Pundit (think Tom Friedman, among many, many examples who could be named). Once you’ve arrived at that station of hackery, it seems there’s little, if anything, capable of dislodging you (I dunno, dead girl or live boy? or however that old saw goes?).
Why would Will be any different in the scenario you sketch?
I don’t agree with this, or the similar surrounding comments, at all.
I detest Will as much as anyone else here, but the idea that his only objection to Trump is how the “brand” will be “tarnished” — and he will lose influence — seems cavalier, reductionist and incorrect, to me.
Will is indeed a reprehensible figure; a water-carrier for the worst forces in our society…but he is nevertheless an ideologue. No matter how wrong-headed he is, the man seems to operate from his own version of a selfless moral compass. He’s not a pretentious, featherbrained idiot like David Brooks or a purely self-centered grifter like Sarah Palin; he’s as close as you’re going to get to a “thinker” on that side. (And, remember, I loathe him; I’m just saying, he’s not a con artist — just profoundly wrong-headed.)
So the idea that a Trump presidency only concerns him because of its predicted negative impact on his own fortunes, seems wrong to me. If you read the piece, he’s genuinely saying, this will be a terrible disaster for our country and for our party, in that order.
And David Broder wasn’t a “centrist.” The whole “centrist” label should be retired. Anyone referred to as (or, worse, referring to themselves as) a “centrist” is advancing right-wing ideas.
For Will and his ilk, a disaster for the Republican Party is by definition a disaster for the country. I don’t think he is making any finer distinctions beyond that.
Remember that Will is not assuming that Trump will become President. He’s assuming that Trump will insure that Hillary becomes President and that is the catastrophe.
I’m not saying that Trump isn’t a dangerous figure. I’m just saying that Will contributes nothing towards an articulation of why.
No, respectfully, it’s the inverse of that: he is saying that Hillary winning is the preferred outcome.
That’s what’s different from all the other pundits: he’s not saying “Trump must be kept from the nomination because the Republicans will lose if he’s the candidate.” He’s saying, “The Republicans need to lose.”
Hillary winning is the preferred outcome to Trump winning.
Hillary winning is a catastrophe (think whoever upthread said catastrophe for GOP = catastrophe for country in Will’s mind is probably right).
But I think he’s saying get that catastrophe over with and make the bitter medicine for the GOP as strong a tonic as possible in order to get the reconstruction (or whatever word that was he used) that he desires underway as quickly as possible, and make the incentive for it as thorough as possible.
Seems that would make the tonic a purgative (i.e., purging the faction currently making Trump the front-runner), and leaving the GOP even more of a rump, permanent-minority party than it already is. Hard for me to imagine, though, who Will thinks could/would replace them in his hoped-for revived GOP.
Right, but, again, this is what’s so unusual.
I’m not singling you out; I’m addressing a bunch of the comments en masse (as I wrote above). This is an extremely unusual and impressive stance for Will to take; it’s unusual for Will, for conservatives, and for any pundits this cycle.
He wants the Republican to lose. He wants conservatives to help ensure that the Republican loses. He thinks that Hillary Clinton (Hillary Clinton! The antichrist they’ve been smearing for decades!) needs to win; to beat the Republican; he wants Republicans to vote for her.
I don’t know why this is being dismissed, here, as “business as usual” (or as some kind of cynical, self-protective maneuver). I can’t think of any other example of a high-profile opinionmaker urging that the game be thrown. Even the Nader-backers who claimed that Gore “needed” to lose because “both sides are the same” weren’t going nearly this far in a self-abnegating direction — and their nihilism was totally different from Will’s fervent ideological brinksmanship.
He wants Hillary to beat Trump. That tells you more about Trump, about how awful he is (worse than either Bush, Romney, McCain, Palin, or anyone else) as Will and others see him, than any liberal/progressive condemnation — or, any attempt to steal the nomination and give it to Ryan or whomever — possibly could.
Again, what’s awful about Trump as Will sees him is that Trump is exposing the con. Hillary perpetuates it.
As if there’s the slightest chance that George F. Will would ever support any Clinton agenda, in any context, if it weren’t for Trump.
Not so sure about that. Weren’t Will and Hillary aligned on the TPP until Hillary’s recent volte face? That’s just the first example which springs to mind.
Just to be clear what I am suggesting is that Will is reacting badly to things like Trump’s unspoken apostasy on Republican core tenets like supply-side economics, free trade and interventionist nation-building. These are things which if Hillary doesn’t actively promote she at least represents a centrist piton Will can clip on to in extremity. Trump offers no such security; his every success merely increases the likelihood that when people get around to asking, “And who were the perpetrators of these wretched calumnies?” a multitude will be pointing right at George F Will.
Slight correction: the late David Broder was not a right-wing pundit, but a centrist. He cared very much about civility, probably above all else; incivility gave him the vapors. He did worry about things; for example, he was very worried that the country couldn’t handle the Iran-Contra hearings so “soon” after the upheaval of Watergate.
They’ve always claimed to care about civility, with a good deal of emotion. Burke really did say that “manners are of more importance than laws”. You can say that it’s a mask for class interests, because the code of good manners is the property of gentlemen, and enforcing the code contributes to maintaining their hegemony, but I think they really feel it.
The patrician commentators don’t care too much about Katrina-type disasters, but they do care about vulgarity. It’s a direct threat. They’ve thought they were using vulgarity for the past 50-60 years (G W Bush successfully pretending to be a redneck is the climax), but Trump is the prospect of vulgarity really taking over and the class system really breaking up. They feel like they’re in the civil war in Rome in the 1st c. BCE–Marius and Julius Caesar had no respect for the ancient ruling class–and Empire is coming.
I agree, Will’s reaction is not pragmatic, it’s visceral. The only question is precisely what it is that he’s reacting to. It’s not that I’m not adequately reading between the lines, it’s that there isn’t anything to read there.
To Democrats, Trump seems a Frankenstein’s monster and the logical endpoint of the whole GOP trajectory since at least Gingrich. To ideological conservatives like Will, however, Trump is some kind of anomaly. Will felt a similar antipathy towards Sarah Palin, who appealed to the same base tendencies of the base.
What Will is reacting to is almost entirely social. In that sense, at least, Hillary is “one of us” for Will. Trump is a boor, an ignoramus, a demagogue of the great unwashed, way outside the beltway. Palin is the trailer trash version of the same thing. Ideologically they would appear to be quite different. Yet Palin campaigned for Trump in Wisconsin. The difference are inconsequential compared to the similarities.
One of the surprises of the current season is that ideology has turned out to be mere window dressing for a huge swath of Republican voters. What attracts them is raw anger plus the same sensibility that creates a readership for supermarket tabloids and a fan base for mud wrestling.
Will belongs to that dwindling group of Republicans for whom conservatism is a mark of gentility and civilization. How superficial that now turns out to be, marks the superficiality of Will and those like him. In fairness to Will, I think he is basically a decent guy who just cannot connect the dots. As it is, he has gone from supporting the Iraq War to condemning it.
priscianus, yes we are now witnessing, before the fact, another they-came to-Washington-and-trashed-the-place moment a la Peggy Noonan. But now the self-proclaimed gatekeepers are ironically tripping over each other to support and coddle one of the original thrashers: Hillary Rodham Clinton—or all people! As they say in bogland, you can hardly make this shit up!
You’re right. Hillary was originally NOT “one of us”. Bill Clinton even less so. I mean, he was a Rhodes Scholar, etc., but that didn’t matter, he was white trash. But things change. The Clintons have become undeniably big players in the world of the “serious people”, while the definition of “one of us” has widened as the pool has narrowed.
I’m getting so sick to my stomach of the so-called centrist bile swilling around Hillary Clinton I’m getting tempted to vote for Donald Trump. Big players turn me on.
George Will is not calling for a scorched-earth opposition to Trump because he fears an American Hitler. Nowhere does he cite Trump’s xenophobic policy proposals or racist appeals to voters.
Primarily, he fears that an unsuccessful Trump nomination will weaken the Republican hold on Congress and the Supreme Court. Secondarily, he faults Trump for not honoring “conservative essentials” – in other words, being insufficiently right-wing on social issues.
That his disgust for Trump is class-based is given away by his description of the nominating convention’s “sovereign” duty to prevent those troublesome plebes from spoiling things for their betters.
Will’s use of “condign” is another signifier.
oh dear god … now the republicans are trying to kill us with schadenfreude.
Of course! Trump is appealing to the common man, that unwashed boorish domestic animal that all true country club Republicans hate and disdain. Hillary is one of them, albeit wearing the Democratic label. Trump’s policies re tariffs and immigration (never mind their actual merit or lack of merit) hurt the True Republican pocketbook. Hillary’s policies help the rich. Naturally they prefer Hillary.
The “social conservatives” were never anything more than dumb yahoos whose votes the rich wanted. They catered to their archaic social mores because it gave them the power to loot the economy. They never actually believed them themselves. If they truly believed that Jesus of Nazareth was the actual living aspect of an all powerful God and that the Bible was literal truth, they would be shaking in their boots! Never mind Bernie Sanders! What did Jesus say about the rich? What did he do to the moneylenders?
Conservatives endorsing Hillary will hardly help her in her battle with Sanders. Perhaps they are still hoping against hope that Sanders can still win the nomination and they can do their capitalism vs. Socialism Shtick.
But if Hillary does win the nomination, it also encourages the Sanders people to run as a third party against two conservative candidates.
All in all, I doubt that the George Wills are as influential as they like to believe – with anyone – and this is probably just an entertaining sideshow.
However if Hillary and sanders supporters can work together, it also creates an opportunity for a clean sweep of the institutions of state – and a much more progressive presidency even if Hillary is the President.
More than that, George Will’s belief that republicans can recover in four years time must be wishful thinking. If they lose most competitive down ticket races they lose not only SCOTUS, but the ability to gerrymander and suppress the vote down ticket as well.
The internecine strife in the GOP will be epic, and many conservatives may abandon the GOP completely. Lets hope the Dems don’t welcome them…
Lets hope the Dems don’t welcome them…
Too late. They’re already here and a power in the Dem party. That was the long-term strategy of the “New Democrats.” Marketed as in praise of bipartisanship which the rubes fell for as a good thing.
Yep. Everyone was geared up for the Sanders platform in the mid-1990s until Bill sold Dems out. Heck, I still remember the Dem sweeps of 1984 and 1988.
Meanwhile, Clinton discussed working positively with Sanders this morning on CNN. If Sanders chairs the budget committee in the Senate, we could be looking at a nice development and another reason to ensure Trump loses the election, as George Will hopes for.
The people are never ready for candidates that appear weak, indecisive, etc.
In case you didn’t notice or have forgotten, WJC only got 43% of the vote in ’92. And Gore received and Kerry received millions more votes than WJC ever got.
So? WJC provided a positive impetus for a lot of people to vote Dem. I think that’s great and I think it’s great that WJC left office more popular than St. Ronnie by many polls. After losing national elections for nearly a quarter of a century, baby steps in the right direction can lead to big things, like a self proclaimed democratic socialist gaining traction in a major party.
Now, we have the potential for nice things to happen. If the Dems retake the Senate, Bernie chairs the budget committee, and Dems keep the presidency, I think more steps in the right direction can be made if people work together. Even more so if we ditch right wing rule on the Supreme Court. Republicans in the House will be a fly in the ointment, but if a few losses come their way, perhaps they will be a bit more pliable.
Really, there’s a lot to be excited about in this election if you step back and take a look at things.
Other than the ’93 tax increase (and I’m not totally confident of that), we could have had less GOP legislation enacted with a second GHWB term. Democrats controlled Congress under GHWB; so, people were actually voting for Democrats before Clinton ran for President. I we are to be totally honest, in 1992 Democrats won one Senate seat and lost nine House seats. So, it’s not as if the guy had coattails.
That’s a big “if” you’ve got going on there. We also could have had a dramatically reshaped Supreme Court, since Clinton’s appointments were made in his first term.
You have a big “if” in your comments as well. As I already said, IF there a balance between the Hillary group and the Sanders group is achieved, things might work out fairly well. I pretty much agree with you on that. It’s just that you seem very optimistic that’s going to happen. To me, it’s a big if.
And I never pretended it wasn’t, did I? That’s the whole point of winning an election, to make the “if” real. OTOH, the comment I responded to was “iffing” about a Clinton loss in 1992 being somehow better for the Dems. “If” away all you want on that, but we got two solid Supreme Court appointments in Clinton’s first term that we otherwise would not have had.
Two SC appointments that haven’t made a lot of difference relative to the Democratic losses in Congress in 94 and 98. Dare I mention his impeachment in 99 over getting caught with his dick in an intern’s mouth? Bill Clinton killed the Democratic Party. Most of us knew that in 2000. Try to keep up.
(No quibbling please over the 5 seats Dems gained in the House in 1998.) The economy was through the roof that year, rocketing upwards on information tech expansion and related gains, not because of anything Clinton did (or didn’t do); the economic expansion should have slayed Republicans that year. Absent Clinton, they would have. The Senate stayed the same (at least); but with that economy, the gains should have been massive. Credit those five seats in 1998 to Democratic partisans then (like me) falling on our swords to defend the fucker. Clinton killed the party during his tenure, 98 proved the rule, whether he meant to get caught, or not.
For the sake of argument, Hillary might actually be a decent president IF the Sanders/Warren contingent could function as a true counterweight to her worst tendencies.
Whether that is possible is for me the most important question about the future of the Democratic Party in general, and the upcoming election in particular.
I do not suppose such a balance would be easily achieved. But circumstances are more favorable than they used to be. If such a balance is not attained, the Democratic Party is heading for big trouble, not so different from the GOP.
Sanders and Warren may be a counterweight in the court of public opinion but not in Congress. Like Bill, she’ll get things done with the anti-Trump/anti-teabag GOP faction. Those Republicans in Congress may be a smaller faction than they were in the ’90s, but the Dem Clinton faction is now larger.
In some ways that could be an improvement over the situation we have in congress now. My bottom line is always, what happens in the event of “war powers”. Assuming she even bothers to consult them. Of course, a lot of the Baggers would not support it.
Parenthetically, I wonder how many people remember that House Democrats, by a large margin, did NOT support the Iraq war resolution; and only a tiny bit more than half the democratic senators did support it. That’s why we should not forgive Hillary too readily for that vote. Especially when her own mentor, Sen. Byrd, was one of the ones that voted against it.
You’ll have to explain for me how that will be better than what we have now. Neither bagger faction in the House nor Senate is large enough on their own to reject HRC proposals for no reason other than that she’s the one proposing it. If the proposals are in the GOP sweet spot, she’ll get it done with the non-bagger GOP faction and a Dem faction.
Nancy, or whoever moves into her position, isn’t going to obstruct much of anything from HRC. The ranks of the slightly less than half of the Dem Senators in 2002 that rejected the IWR is likely down to a third or less.
How better than what we have now? We’ve got nothing now. We have a congress that does nothing but play with their yo-yos. Not blaming the Democrats for that, of course.
Oh, I see what you’re saying. Well, it’s not exactly a new idea to be able to pass genuine Democratic legislation with a little bipartisanship. I really don’t think Hillary’s going to control even the Democratic part of congress.
I don’t know, Marie. Right now I have very little idea what next year’s going to look like. I’m going to take a little time before the convention not to worry about it until I know what I’m worrying about. Always interested to hear your views, though.
It would be a frigging disaster if Republicans vote for a Democratic president’s proposals. I mean, that’s what happened in 1964: the Civil Rights Act passed because around 80% of Republicans in Congress voted for it. And you know what a disaster the Civil Rights Act has turned out to be.
Today we don’t have that republican party, we have one that is made up of those that opposed the 1964 Civil Right bill.
Hence the rise of the t-Rumpster/palin imbecile brigades, which the teatards have used to hoodwink the country after the Bush debacle. They run the scam on the base of the GOtP for their and only the 1% benefit.
The resulting decimation of the middle class and impoverishment of the vast majority of the citizens is by design, so that the far right moneyed interests who couldn’t stop Roosevelt’s ideas in the 30’s can return the country and western society to a more gentile/”christian” time.
You know where everyone can be made to work 14-16 hours a day for subsistence wages and told if they don’t like it there is always debtors prison. Of course those not blessed by gawd with the right skin color at birth, know their place and accept it. Equal rights for women is thrown on the dust bin of history because the buy-bill says women folk must submit.
Right now they are trying to return to the 1890s-1920s time frame but ultimate goal is a return to precivil war days, where only white men of privilege have any real say in how things go and most of the wealth is controlled by those same people.
It is becoming a very interesting establishment election — between the current powers and the criminal aspirants for power. Isn’t it very interesting that all the major (Kasich is not major) candidates have casino-running major backers. Of course, that is what Trump fundamentally is.
The hidden economy and gray economy want to gain power over regulations and law enforcement.
The hankering for legitimacy and respect in the midst of illegitimacy and corruption is what is driving the political classes in this election.
Nothing good can come of it, IMHO. What an utterly disastrous turn that the complacency in the Congressional races will only exacerbate.
Is Bernie Sanders a major player? If so, who is his casino running major backer?
I was actually thinking of the GOP side alone. But no doubt there are a lot of small-time gamblers who have chipped in for Bernie Sanders.
Should your headline not have read: George Will and the Great Defecation?
Will is embarrassed by Trump’s anti-intellectualism and offended by his crudeness.
Weird because anti-intellectualism is precisely what the GOP has been praising for decades. All the way back to Adlai Stevenson who was labeled an egghead and therefore, unsuitable for President. As for crudeness, one doesn’t need to look hard to see that a large faction of the GOP voter base relish crudeness and GOP pols are happy to associate with any crude celebrity and embrace crude GOP politicians like Christie. (And only an idiot doesn’t know that in private Nixon and GWB were crude and quite cruel. As was LBJ, just to interject a bit of the “both sides do it” meme.)
Will just wants the rubes to continue to accept being ruled over by those in his social set (aka their betters). IOW, he’s more a monarchist than a democrat.
True, and Democrats have always seen this. But, prescinding from any question of the connection of their ideas with any discernible reality, Will belongs to the intellectual class of Republicans. You remember, the National Review and all that?
And there are still conservative intellectuals worth reading, like Daniel Larison, Justin Raimondo.
I make no effort to judge the quality of his intellect, but Will is definitely one of them. He probably never gave much thought to the anti-intellectual element, pther than that he probably felt he was translating their barbaric yawps into acceptable discourse fit to be broadcast over the rooftops of the world.
Will might do well to remember that the Rep Party has not had a good track record of late revamping itself. Their failure to heed their own autopsy last round certainly helped fuel Trump’s appeal now.
As well, the obstructionism they felt more comfortable with did them no favors either.
Will is stale.
SO, if Trump loses, and especially if he loses badly, there’ll be another autopsy. And that autopsy will once again recommend that the GOP quit demonizing Latinos and immigrants, for example. How likely is the far-right wing of the GOP (let’s drop the “Tea Party” label) to adopt that particular recommendation?
Good ol’ Will is right. Hillary for a while would be at least as good as Nixon/Ford from 69-76, and those years were better than much of anything (the recent Clinton/Bush recession notwithstanding) since then. Hell. Hillary’s a two-fer for Republicans now. They get her, as good a DINO moderate Republican as ever there was for four years, and a good chance to wipe her out in 2020 for an actual Republican. Will could be dead by then but otherwise he’s got nothing more to lose trashing Trump than trashing Clinton. To me they’re both loathsome, ego-driven tools; like most Americans, I prefer they both lose.
I agree.
Speaking of The Donald. Has anyone read Sullivan’s latest? It’s a major piece and well worth the time. (This from someone who almost never reads Sullivan.) An amazing mix of sharpinsight, existential panic, and the blinkers and distorted judgments typical of most conservatives.
With Plato as his guide, Sullivan brilliantly details the devolution of what he calls democracy. Except that what he’s talking abut is not actually democracy, but rather, bread and circuses created by an incredibly powerful and remote elite class, for the 99.9% after having taken almost everything, even hope.
The authority of the elites is fading not because there is too much democracy, but because they no longer provide anything for anyone else, they only take.
Most important, Sullivan absolutely and totally fails to understand the Bernie Sanders phenomenon. He mentions him only a few times; Sanders, whom he refers to as a “demagogue”, is not a protagonist in this tale, but merely a reflection of Hillary Clinton’s weakness. Of course no adequate understanding o Sanders an possibly follow from the premise that we have too much democracy.
As for the panic, I don’t mean to sound complacent, and this is no time for complacency — but the decadence Sullivan is reacting to is more that of the Republican party and its base than of the country as a whole.
Also revealing is Sullivan’s point that Trump represents everything the working class wants. Excuse me, but I think that he represents everything Reagan & Co. taught them to want, after having dismantled the ethics of the New Deal as a necessary prelude to eliminating class balance. Rather than following Plato, he should look at Aristotle, who realizes the key importance of the middle class in maintaining a stable society. And of course the elites have decimated the middle class.
Sanders understands and represents what the sane, non-corrupted working class and middle class actually want.
This is Sullivan’s version of what George Will is going through, and what I think all Republican pundits who do not want Trump are going through right now. They are indeed watching Trump destroy their beloved GOP.
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/04/america-tyranny-donald-trump.html
“Also revealing is Sullivan’s point that Trump represents everything the working class wants. Excuse me, but I think that he represents everything Reagan & Co. taught them to want, after having dismantled the ethics of the New Deal as a necessary prelude to eliminating class balance.”
I get it. More false consciousness. The universal explanation.
You really believe “the working class” wants to be like Trump?
Based on the theories of the Groucho school of Marxism, I would say that the only class that wants to be like Trump is the asshole class.
The hatred for Der Trumpenfuhrer among the right-wing intelligentsia is kind of hilarious to me.
Trump has a few “mavericky” points (infrastructure spending, not panicking over transgendered people in restrooms, etc), but on the actual policy proposals (massive tax cuts for the hyper-rich, VA privatization, “bombing the shit out of ISIS,” running out all the immigrants), he’s running as a pretty standard-issue Republican. He’s just obnoxious about it.
So it’s nothing to do with policy.
No, what I suspect is at play here is fear that Trump will mean losing Latinos and women beyond this election, which would ultimately mean the GOP can’t win a presidential election. Because instead of dog-whistling groups like most of them are accustomed to, Trumpster lets his freak flag fly.
That’s the only real difference, as far as I can tell.
Well then he just put the cap on it, since they were losing women and Latinos galore long before Trump.
But no, it’s more than that. He is that clown caricature of themselves, who reveals to the world what they themselves really are. I have nothing against gentility, quite the contrary, but all their gentility is little but a mask for the very qualities that Trump sees every reason not to mask.
Hillary Clinton–luckiest politician alive.
Gosh I glad I looked at this comment thread. I was starting to worry that the “Hillary Clinton is really a Republican” meme was losing its grip on the progressive mind.
You’re beating a dead horse, Joel.
What more need the “progressive mind” say than that, now George Will’s beloved GOP is dying of self-inflicted wounds, he is ready to vote for her?
The phrase “Republican lite” has been widely used to characterize the politics of the Clintons, and of the DLC in general, since the 1990s.
http://articles.latimes.com/1996-08-23/local/me-36919_1_republican-lite
https://www.timeshighereducation.com/news/republican-lite/91245.article