In the comments/replies section of Booman’s recent post This is What a Landslide Election Looks Like, I took the position that Trump will win the election against HRC no matter what the polls and pros may say now. As various people jumped up and down in anger that I would even consider such a possibility, JoelDanWalls asked me:
OK, let’s grant your claim that polls are worthless this year. Then tell us what you are basing your claim of a Trump landslide on.
Despite the fact that I never even intimated that it would be a “landslide,” I decided to answer him in good faith. The answer grew, and I am now posting it as a standalone post.
Read on if you wish to hear what I have to say about this election as it seems to me to be shaping up.
The basic reason?
OK, here it is.
Trump is a professional celebrity. He is one of the best in the business at that job.
HRC is a professional politician. She is one of the best in the business at that job.
The candidate who is the best at what a celebrity does…look good, say witty and/or at least memorable things in memorable ways…has won every presidential election since JFK/Nixon with the possible exception of Jimmy Carter, who could only hang on for one term. And maybe Nixon himself, who only manged to last 5 years and profited mightily from his opponents, Humbert Humbert…errr, ahhh…Hubert Humphrey, a totally non-charismatic hump of a man, George Wallace, who was an entirely regional candidate and came across as a mean-tempered, KKK-allied bigot plus the totally verklempt Chicago DemRat convention.
Trump has the “it” factor. Clinton does not. That’s why. Simple as that. Presidential politics in the U.S. has become a popularity contest. Not enough people “like” Hillary Clinton and evidently huge numbers of people “like” Trump. So it goes. History? Policies? They mean nothing in a nationwide election. Watch.
Further…Trump can hire professional political managers. He says that he is good at hiring managers and such, and it appears that he is telling the truth about that. Paul Manafort has done a very good job for him over quite a short time. When Manafort was hired the RatPub hierarchy was busily conspiring to steal the nomination from Trump. Now Trump is the presumptive nominee. I expect that Trump will run an effective campaign, that he will hire people who can get the job done. And…Trump is a consummate pro at what he does, which is hustle the rubes.
Hillary Clinton is, as I said, a professional politician. But she is a professional back room politician. Behind closed doors among the powerful she does very well. But…she has zero charisma. Bill provided that for her, which is why she managed him up from being a coke-snorting, lecherous Arkansas barfly lawyer…that segment of his life reminds me of some character out of the TV series “Better Call Saul”…all the way to the White House. Electoral politics is a shell game. Trump can hire pros to run the organizational aspects of his campaign, but HRC cannot hire someone who will provide her with charisma.
Ergo, Trump wins.
JoelDanWalls also wrote:
If you tell me, well, I just get that vibe as I drive around the northeast to my various musical gigs, then I’m going to tell you about my 25 year old household member who’s still convinced Sanders is going to be the nominee because he obsessively watches Sanders rallies on the Internet and sees how jazzed the crowds are.
What’s the reason for your prediction, AG?
And…yes, I keep my ear to the ground in any number of ways. I travel a great deal…not just in the northeast…and I pay attention to what I hear and see. I have been saying for decades that the first presidential candidate to talk street to the people of the U.S. would win. Trump…God help us…is that candidate. Barring a serious scandal or some kind of…ahem…”accident,” I think that he will win and win big.
You asked; I answered.
Go contemplate your polls.
Later…
AG
P.S. Hiring Paul Manafort, besides apparently being a good hire politically, was also a sign to the people who do bad things to candidates that they do not trust. Here’s the scoop on him:
The Quiet American
Paul Manafort made a career out of stealthily reinventing the world’s nastiest tyrants as noble defenders of freedom. Getting Donald Trump elected will be a cinch.
—snip—
The genesis of Donald Trump’s relationship with Paul Manafort begins with Roy Cohn. That Roy Cohn: Joe McCarthy’s heavy-lidded henchman, lawyer to the Genovese family. During the ’70s, Trump and his father hired Cohn as their lawyer to defend the family against a housing discrimination suit. (Cohn accused the Feds of using “Gestapo-like tactics.”) But Cohn and Trump became genuine pals, lunching at the Four Seasons and clubbing together at Studio 54. It was Roy Cohn who introduced [Roger] Stone and Manafort to Trump.
During those disco years, Stone and Manafort were tethered together. They were both kids from Connecticut, attending colleges in Washington, though they couldn’t have been more different. Stone loved attention and garnered it with theatrical flair. He was a bad boy, soi-disant. As a student at George Washington University, Stone moonlighted for the Nixon campaign and gravitated to Jeb Magruder, deputy director of the Committee to Re-Elect the President. Dirty tricks came naturally to Stone. He assumed a pseudonym and made contributions on behalf of the Young Socialist Alliance to one of Nixon’s potential challengers. He hired spies to infiltrate the McGovern campaign. Stone wasn’t shy about his handiwork. In fact, he wasn’t shy about anything. He loved to sit for interviews and vamp. Stone is a bodybuilding fanatic who posed shirtless in the New Yorker. The photo captured his implanted hair, but not the tattoo of Richard Nixon on his back.
Manafort had a very different mentor. He studied under the future secretary of state, James A. Baker III, who wielded his knife with the discipline of a Marine and the polish of a Princetonian. It was a good fit for Manafort, who shared his mentor’s pragmatic conservatism and his thirst for politics. (His father spent six years as the mayor of New Britain, Connecticut, a Republican who flourished in Democratic terrain.) Baker, an avid collector of young talent, had managed Gerald Ford’s re-election campaign. That’s where he spotted Manafort and anointed him aide de camp. When Baker needed his own manager for his 1978 campaign to become attorney general of Texas, he tapped Manafort. The experience of whispering in Baker’s ear left a lasting impression. “Paul modeled himself after Baker,” one of his friends told me.
—snip—
Manafort and Stone pioneered a new style of firm, what K Street would come to call a double-breasted operation. One wing of the shop managed campaigns, electing a generation of Republicans, from Phil Gramm to Arlen Spector. The other wing lobbied the officials they helped to victory on behalf of its corporate clients. Over the course of their early years, they amassed a raft of blue-chip benefactors, including Salomon Brothers and Rupert Murdoch’s News Corp.
—snip—
Manafort and Stone built a glamour firm. The Black in its name belonged to Charles Black, who as a 25-year-old launched the Senate career of Jesse Helms. Later, they lured Lee Atwater, the evil genius who would devise the Willie Horton gambit for George H.W. Bush. The firm had swagger. In the early ’80s, the partners spoke openly to the Washington Post of their annual $450,000 salaries. According to the consultant Ed Rollins, Black would later boast that the firm had schemed to gain cartel-like control of the 1988 Republican presidential primary. They managed all of the major campaigns. Atwater took Bush; Black ran Dole; Stone handled Jack Kemp. A congressional staffer joked to a reporter from Time, “Why have primaries for the nomination? Why not have the candidates go over to Black, Manafort and Stone and argue it out?”
Manafort actively avoided the spotlight, though he had a knack for garnering unwanted attention. He took on clients and causes that even most of his colleagues on K Street considered outside the usual bounds. Black, Manafort, and Stone hired alumni of the Department of Housing and Urban Development then used those connections to win $43 million in “moderate rehabilitation funds” for a renovation project in Upper Deerfield, New Jersey. Local officials had no interest in the grants, as they considered the shamble of cinder blocks long past the point of repair. The money flowed from HUD regardless, and developers paid Manafort’s firm a $326,000 fee for its handiwork. He later bought a 20 percent share in the project. Two years later, rents doubled without any sign of improvement. Conditions remained, in Mary McGrory’s words, “strictly Third World.” It was such an outrageous scam that congressmen flocked to make a spectacle of it. Manafort calmly took his flaying. “You might call it influence-peddling. I call it lobbying,” he explained in one hearing. “That’s a definitional debate.”
Strangely, the HUD scandal proved a marketing boon for the firm. An aide to Mobutu Sese Seko told the journalist Art Levine, “That only shows how important they are!” Indeed, Manafort enticed the African dictator to hire the firm. Many of the world’s dictators eventually became his clients. “Name a dictator and Black, Manafort will name the account,” Levine wrote. (Levine’s piece, published in Spy, featured a sidebar ranking the ethical behavior of Washington lobbyists: It found Black, Manafort the worst of the bunch.) The client list included Philippine strongman Ferdinand Marcos (with a $900,000 yearly contract) and the despots of the Dominican Republic, Nigeria, Kenya, Equatorial Guinea, and Somalia. When the Center for Public Integrity detailed the firm’s work, it titled the report “The Torturers’ Lobby.”
—snip—
Manafort understood the mindset of the dictator wasn’t so different from his corporate clients. According to one proposal unearthed by congressional investigators, the firm boasted of “personal relationships” with administration officials and promised “to upgrade backchannels” to the U.S. government.
—snip—
Who pays Paul Manafort? The question can be devilishly difficult to answer. He doesn’t always file the forms demanded by the Foreign Agents Registration Act. And he may not even need to disclose who cuts his checks. The law is porous, and over time revisions in the act have created various ways for lobbyists to hide their deeds. Like Henry Kissinger, Manafort can claim that he merely “consults” with foreign governments, relieving him of the legal burden of announcing his benefactors.
Money arrives to Manafort circuitously, sometimes through the dodgiest of routes. We know this because he admitted one instance to investigators. If there’s one place on the planet inhospitable to American political consultants, it is France. So when Manafort wrote a campaign strategy for Eduoard Balladur’s presidential campaign in 1995, his role was kept from the public. Payments traveled beneath the table. In fact, the French investigation revealed, the money came from a good friend and old client of Manafort’s, a Lebanese arms dealer called Abdul Rahman al-Assir. (Manafort took Assir to George H.W Bush’s inauguration in 1989; Assir once loaned Manafort $250,000, as the Washington Post reported this week).
Manafort’s fee was a small piece of a larger kickback scheme. At least $200,000 came to Manafort, some of it via accounts in Madrid. It was part of a deal brokered by Assir. He arranged for France to sell Pakistan three Agosta submarines–with tens of millions of euros in “commissions” returning to the coffers of the Balladur campaign. The scandal, known in France as the “Karachi Affair,” has hovered over the country’s politics ever since it broke in 2010. (The English ex-wife of another Franco-Lebanese arms dealer involved in l’affair revealed the Manafort payments to a French judge.)It wasn’t the only time that Manafort received money from the Pakistanis. Michael Isikoff has reported that Manafort was paid $700,000 by the Kashmiri American Council–ostensibly a grassroots organization advocating against Indian control of the contested borderland. Funding for the group, however, came from Pakistani intelligence. The assistant U.S. attorney who investigated the Kashmiri American Council has called it a “false flag operation.” Manafort flew his own false flags in the name of his stealth client. In 1993, he traveled to Kashmir to obtain footage for a video his firm was producing on behalf of the Pakistanis. The work entailed interviewing Indian officials, who would have never granted access if Manafort announced his true purpose. To get in the door, he lied about his identity, telling the Indians that he worked for CNN. Manafort has denied that he ever misrepresented himself, but he so offended the Indian government that a spokesman for its foreign ministry issued a public rebuke: “The whole thing was obviously a blatant operation of producing television software with a deliberate and particularly anti-Indian slant by lobbyists hired by Pakistan for this very purpose.”
–snip—
I could go on, but why? Manafort is a civilian spook. He’s connected with the underworld of the Permanent Government…deeply connected…and his presence on the Trump team is a signal to the bad boys that Trump is indeed an establishment goodfella, that he’ll play ball with whomever offers him something he wants.
This election is going to be a contest between the two dominant factions of the Permanent Government. The Obama/Clinton faction…the “kinder, gentler/hopey feely” crooks… had its 8 years and things got worse here. Now the bad boys are going to try to take over again.
They have a good horse to ride in Trump.
Watch.
Giant, heaping helpings of scorn that I would have the temerity to make this prediction?
Here, on a so-called “progressive” site?
Wake the fuck up.
If Trump can be stopped, the very first thing that must be done is for committed Democrats to pull their various heads out of their various asses and dreamclouds and look the fuck around!!!
This whole “Clinton landslide!!!” thing is just a repeat of the “Trump can’t win the nomination!!! He’s too unpresidential!!!” bullshit that started almost 12 months ago, only now it’s even stupider. And bigger…even more desperate.
Look where the fuck the first dream got us.
WTFU.
AG
Keep thinking that, and I’ll look you up the day after election day.
I will “keep thinking that” until I see believable evidence to the contrary.
So far?
Not.
What could change my opinion?
VP nominees could. A good one for HRC, a bad one for Trump.
The first debate could, but I doubt it. Trump is already on the offensive, accusing HRC of acting as an “enabler” of Bill’s various affairs while simultaneously dissing her as ” an unbelievably nasty, mean enabler.” He butters both sides of every slice of poisonous bread he serves, and he makes it work.
And of course…the unexpected could change the whole game. Illness, indefensible scandals, “accidents” of various kinds…you know…
But if things continue on their present path? I think that the devoutly wished-for DemRat “savior” vote…the minority vote…will not materialize strongly enough to counter the habitual non-voter turnout for Trump.
If I’m wrong?
Sue me.
AG
We know one thing, it won’t be Bernie in the White House. Always a good thing.
Good thing for Goldman-Sachs and the Koch brothers. Which one do you work for?
Both.
Probably unknowingly.
AG
While nobody should undervalue Trump’s celebrity status or huckster skills, you seem to be over-valuing both. And overlooking the fact that HRC has been successfully marketed into celebrity status as well.
Yesterday, Trump once again exhibited his Achilles heel in his bully-boy style and it’s the worst deficit he could have in this election. He could go after “war hero” McCain and son of a Bush and come out ahead. But what happened when he went after Megyn Kelly and Carly Fiorina? The only person to come out with the short-end of the stick against Fiorina has been Trump. Think about that!
He got the best in his tangle with Paul Ryan yesterday. But, wtf is he doing going after Elizabeth Warren? She’s widely respected in her own right and that respect crosses over to independents and maybe even a few Republicans. Publicly she’s remained impartial wrt the Dem primary and has offered words of encouragement for Sanders’ message. This reinforced the fact that Trump has a problem with women that aren’t model/beauty contest types and wants to pummel them. That’s going to work in HRC’s favor, because if there’s one arena in which she comes out best, it’s against men that use a bully-boy strategy against her.
I’ve wondered about Trump’s outrageous behavior toward women, but then I think about all the women that vote Republican, when clearly that party has not been kind to them. This article looks at that problem: it’s the white women voting Republican.
http://www.colorlines.com/articles/democrats-have-white-women-problem
Additionally, HRC does not appeal to younger women, who are voting heavily for Bernie Sanders.
This is why I think others here should stop dismissing Voice’s comments about white voters feeling that they don’t count within the Dem party. Feelings are often more relevant to voter behavior than realities.
If both parties participate in sending decent paying industrialized jobs abroad, but only one party stokes the feelings and resentments of white people and hold out fairy tales of a glorious past for people like them before the other pushed integration which one are they going to vote for? Doesn’t matter if the parents and grandparents that lived during the imaginary golden period would have preferred and lived better with fewer mouths to feed, clothe and house and the GOP supports policies that would have white women return to being baby factories. If times were good for white people back then, maybe having lots of babies was the magical difference. (We’re not talking about rocket scientists here.)
I may appreciate and prefer lots of diversity because it’s more interesting, but many don’t. Not even in entertainment as they can watch an endless number of sequels and the original wasn’t even all that good to begin with. OTOH, being a minority of one in any otherwise unitary group isn’t at all comfortable. Nor am I comfortable with any group behavior (including voting) based solely on race, ethnic identity, religious affiliation, or gender. Sometimes there isn’t any choice in the matter, but much of that lack of choice is based on politicians exploiting various groups that individuals are a part of through no choice of their own. I find it offensive that HRC exploited white people in ’08 and this time she shifted to pick up the AA base that was instrumental in Obama’s primary win.
Carly Fiorina has more in common with HRC than many middle-aged and older white women have with HRC. Ofr course Fiorina is the bigger hypocrite by attempting to exploit white women that haven’t had her privileges.
If the Dem elites would return to the party’s FDR roots, instead of running from them, they wouldn’t have to slice and dice the electorate into smidgens, while holding their breath on election night. It’s also time for the party to bring back these thoughts of MLK:
“The contemporary tendency in our society is to base our distribution on scarcity, which has vanished, and to compress our abundance into the overfed mouths of the middle and upper classes until they gag with superfluity. If democracy is to have breadth of meaning, it is necessary to adjust this inequity. It is not only moral, but it is also intelligent. We are wasting and degrading human life by clinging to archaic thinking.
“The curse of poverty has no justification in our age. It is socially as cruel and blind as the practice of cannibalism at the dawn of civilization, when men ate each other because they had not yet learned to take food from the soil or to consume the abundant animal life around them. The time has come for us to civilize ourselves by the total, direct and immediate abolition of poverty.”
http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2013/08/martin-luther-kings-economic-dream-a-guaranteed-
income-for-all-americans/279147/#article-comments
I’d like to add that when MLK said those words, we had a middle class, but that class is badly eroding.
Poverty has been reduced since MLK said those words. The middle class is broader.
Also, a year or so before MLK said those words, the Great Society programs were passed by Congress and signed into law by President Johnson, building on the New Deal programs. The electoral response? The Republican Party immediately started winning Presidential and Congressional elections much more consistently. These electoral results have been the chief factor in slowly stopping and recently reversing our success in reducing poverty.
I agree with the vision pursued by King. If we were to restore social welfare programs, I wish the response from American voters would be to reward the politicians who achieved these policy goals which you and I agree the American people should want.
What I’ve been trying to bring out in recent weeks is that there is little to no evidence that the overall American electorate wants what you and I want. The results of the Democratic Party POTUS nomination race is part of a long record in the last half century of the American people rejecting candidates who run on the most liberal progressive/liberal accomplishments and goals. The 1994 and 2010 elections are major parts of that record as well.
That record makes me unhappy. Nevertheless, it must be acknowledged and confronted. Otherwise, there will continue to be misdiagnoses of the problems and misinformed campaign plans.
I believe the American people can be brought around to more consistently providing electoral support for a more socialist group of policies. There is evidence that younger voters are developing that view. Younger voters and others inclined to support socialist programs simply need to turn out to vote more consistently. When they do that, their voices will be respected by our elected leaders more consistently. As it is, TEA Partiers vote much more consistently, so their voices are valued more. Not the way it should be, but corruption didn’t cause that nationwide trend.
You write:
Yes, things have indeed “changed.”
The middle class is both broader and much, much shallower. A single misstep…an unexpected illness, the exporting of one’s job to what we laughingly call “Absurdistan.” and what does the middle class have left??
Panic attacks, pretty much.
Further…
If wishes were horses, beggars would ride.
And:
Yet less tha a paragraph earlier, you write:
Make up your fucking mind, CentristField. You are a representative of the reason that more leftist views have not come to fruition. There is only so far you can parse the middle before it collapses of its own confusion.
WTFU.
AG
A more careful reading would have allowed you to understand that I believe we can have better success in the future to gain voters’ more consistent support for full-throated liberalism and better foreign and military policies, but the record shows that the voters have rejected the candidates who moved these most aggressively in recent decades.
The two points are compatible and coherent.
If Mr Voice were in fact simply writing that white working class folks feel they have no voice in the Democratic coalition, I would agree with him. But his comments along those lines have invariably been accompanied by claims that racism is either (1) a myth, or (2) a bullshit claim cynically made to manipulate people.
Pervasive racism, i.e. a majority of white people being racist is dead. I’m told, by my daughter who lives there, that younger white people do not share their parents values at all. Probably due to school integration.
I say, and it is my contention not hers, that continually branding all white people as racists and all Southerners as neo-Confederates will just drive those young people away. Just like “Welfare Queens” and “prefer to live on welfare rather than work” lies drive young African-Americans away from the Republicans.
So we both live in our respective ghettos where we were driven by the two arms of Arthur Gilroy’s Permagov.
There is nothing which makes industrial jobs inherently worthy of superior compensation and working conditions over the growing service industry sector of the job market. The main differences have been that the growing service sector has been denied reasonable access to collective bargaining, and wage and other Labor laws have been weakened.
Yes, some chipping away of Labor’s power within the Democratic Party happened after substantial portions of the Movement walked away from the McGovern campaign in ’72, but we all can see if we wish to look with clear eyes which President and Party launched a multi-front war on Labor, and which Party has absurdly accelerated those attacks to this day. It started around 1980.
Trump’s approval/disapproval among all women in the most recent Gallup poll is 23%/70%. His net approvals with white women is -20%. Mitt Romney had 14% more white women vote for him than President Obama in the 2012 general election. (Nonetheless, Romney lost the 2012 vote with all women to the President by 56%/44% because of the clock-cleaning he was treated to by non-white women.)
Do you think Trump will improve on Romney’s performance with women? If Donald doesn’t improve on Romney’s performance with women, how can he defeat Hillary?
People concern themselves with Clinton’s performance with young women in the primaries, but do you believe those same young women will look at a Clinton/Trump choice the same way they have looked at Clinton/Sanders, after Donald has launched months of maximally offensive sexist attacks on Clinton between now and November?
While we should and will concern ourselves with the votes of young women, this critique of Hillary’s primary campaign consistently hides the fact that Hillary has performed superbly with middle-aged and older women. Translated: Hillary has performed best with the age groups of female voters who are most likely to vote in November.
Karl, Have you thought about the choice of Governor Nikki Haley as his running mate?
I’m not privy to the Repubs short list, but I bet some operatives are looking at her. Repubs know they have a “media” woman problem, although a bunch of white women keep voting for them. She’s an establishment female governor, unlike renegade Palin. Coming from the South, Haley balances Trump’s “New York values”, as well as, she has immigrant roots. IMHO, she has some star power and was instrumental in getting the Confederate flag removed from the South Carolina Capitol without much noise. She’s very pro-business and knew this would affect tourism–a major industry there. I’m sure she’s sizing up the situation now; but Haley says she’s not interesting in being Trump’s running mate. Who knows?
http://www.postandcourier.com/20160506/160509602/south-carolina-gov-nikki-haley-among-nevertrump-gro
ups-third-party-favorites
I thought she endorsed Hillary? I got an e-mail from Emily’s List that quoted her and sure sounded like an endorsement.
Emily’s list has become one of the HRC propaganda operations. Ignore their communications. Wouldn’t even believe anything they say during the upcoming general election without verifying the veracity of it. And if I have to go to that much effort, what’s the use of reading any message from them.
I started marking their e-mails as spam when they endorsed Hillary.
What happened when he went after Megyn Kelly and Carly Fiorina?
Megyn Kelly was given a “leave of absence” by Fox until the hurt Trump laid on her cooled off and Fiorina fell off the polls and then off the stage when she tried to climb back on using (!!!) Ted “Spawn of Satan” Cruz as a ladder.
That’s “what happened,” Marie.
I’m not saying he’ s right…I’m just saying that his “wrong” is very, very effective.
AG
Carly fell in the polls because she generally sucked, but Trump refrained from going after her a second time when he lost the first round. Trump would have ended up with more points had he not attacked Fiorina and she wouldn’t have fallen just as soon as she did if not sooner. Had there been an authentically viable female GOP candidate in the race, and Trump went after her like he did Fiorina, then the impact of his attack would be clearer.
Kelly has more general support today (or at least she been given more creds for being a journalist) than she had before Trump went after her. Might not be true wrt to once loyal Fox viewers, but overall, yes she came out better than he did.
Kelly came out better than Trump? Trump is about two debates away from being in the White House. Kelly? She’s got a job until she begins to look older than about 33 on TV, at which point Fox will fill her chair with another smart bleached blonde.
I have absolutely no respect for anyone who works for Fox News. None. Zero. Zilch. They are war criminals, the entire pack.
AG
Yeah, all Trump’s dustups with women and essentially all voter blocs outside of white males have him in a fabulous position as we approach the general election cycle:
http://m.dailykos.com/stories/2016/4/30/1521476/-The-Coming-Landslide-381-Electoral-Votes-and-Counti
ng
You have disdained polls as a way to measure likely future electoral outcomes when you have not misreported polls in order to support your preferred future electoral outcomes. What you and others fail to grapple with is that from the moment Trump entered the race, the polls consistently showed he had the support of the plurality of Republican primary voters.
The polls were right on Trump then, and now you want to claim they are wrong on Trump now, because you intensely dislike Hillary, want to see her humiliated, and want her poor general electorate likability polling to be dispositive. You want to use polls when they are helpful to your cause while dispensing entirely with the most important poll, which asks voters who they plan to vote for in a Clinton/Trump general election.
Keep reading Daily Kos, centerfield. It’s right up your alley. I personally would take Trump in NY, PA, OH, and ME as well as a good possibility in IN. Oh…and pretty much of a sure thing in NJ.
Oh…I forgot about Texas.
Just continue to crow without doing much, centerfield. Along with your lame DNC, you are in for the shock of your life unless y’all get your act together and start fighting Trump…no holds barred…starting yesterday!!!
He’s already on HRC like white on rice.
AG
Sorry you want to lay claims about the messenger, but this is what the polling is saying right now about a Clinton/Trump general election. She’s polling with double-digit leads over Trump in almost all the States you name here, but you like his chances to take all of them because…
Keep on pounding the table on behalf of white males, AG.
No, you don’t like Trump, not at all. You’re just making the case for his campaign over and over again.
I am doing so as a…probably futile…warning, fool. You and the whole liberalish establishment are repeating exactly the same mistake as did the RatPublican establishment this summer.
Next thing they knew they hanging by their own
peters…errr, ahhh, I mean petards…from the rafters of the Republican meeting halls.You are courting the same sort of fate.
WTFU.
AG
The GOP and their alternative POTUS candidates were whistling through a very dark graveyard throughout their Party primaries because, from the very start of his campaign, Trump was polling far ahead of his opponents among likely GOP primary voters.
Now, from the very beginning of the general election campaign, Trump is polling very poorly with the general electorate, with superdupermajorities of everyone other than white males sharply disapproving of him, and telling pollsters they plan to vote for Clinton over Trump in November.
None of what you write here touches that. How is Trump going to win over women? Hispanic/Latino-Americans? African-Americans? Asian-Americans? Without sharing actual plans that Trump could plausibly execute to win tens of millions of these voters, you haven’t supported your prediction here at all.
Clinton has run on her support for a large increase in the Federal minimum wage, opposition to the TPP, support for the Iran nuclear deal, and support for Dodd/Frank and specific proposals to further increase regulations of financial institutions. Your quite apparent excitement and approval of Trump bellowing his sexist, lying baloney at Clinton and her supporters fails to make her actual campaign irrelevant.
You personally like Trump more than Clinton; all of us can see that.
Hey, what did you think of this week’s Twitter dustup between Trump and Senator Warren?
The polls are of the moment, not in November.
Democrats traditionally lose the thread when they lose during August, when they take vacations and Republican operatives don’t. It’s when Kerry lost in 2004 and the 2010 an 2014 midterms lost it. It’s when Obama had to scramble in both 2008 and 2012. In 2008, if the bottom had not fallen out of the economy in October and McCain was caught sucking his thumb, we might be facing the candidacy of Sarah Palin as the first woman President.
It is complacency that is now the enemy that Democrats must overcome to get out the vote both in the Presidential race and down-ticket. And using Trump as a way to win down-ticket is of critical importance if the new President is to avoid obstructive gridlock.
I’m not complacent, just confident. Everyone has to do the work to make sure Trump receives the repudiation he deserves and the electoral outcome our nation needs. I’m doing my part, and it’s in my and our interest to encourage others to do the necessary work. Laying it all on the Party and the Clinton campaign is political malpractice on our part. It’s the expression of a passive consumer, rather than an active participant.
It’s impossible for me to take progressives seriously who look at a Clinton/Trump matchup and act like there’s little to no difference from the POV of the progressive agenda. That reflects an astounding level of political and policy illiteracy. We need to stay on board the coalition if we expect to push the Party further leftwards. That means actively campaigning to ensure that the most progressive candidate who can win will win and win big. Running up the score means more Congressional seats, which gives us a greater ability to drive the biggest agenda possible.
Those who think they can disengage from the coalition during the campaign and then bitch self-righteously if Hillary wins and she and her Congress fail to deliver the ponies they demand? Well, by disengaging they all but demanded that the President and Congress fail to take them seriously.
There’s lots of talk about how disappointing the Democratic Party is. There’s no sense of accountability from anyone here about the progressive movement itself; and their place in it. Voters and organizations on the far right bitched less about the Republican Party and organized votes more effectively.
If voters and organizations on the far left were to become that effective, we would see the Democrats move to the left more substantially. Instead, we get a lot of balderdash about the Party establishment making their work sooooo haaaaard! Don’t blame Debbie Wasserman-Schultz for our collective failings.
I don’t see signs that the Clinton campaign is behaving in a complacent manner. Experiencing the substantial challenge from the left that Sanders’ campaign has successfully organized against her is helping ensure that she and her campaign will stay alert.
The same Blah-blah-blah-blah-blah-blah-blah-blah-blahI’ve been hearing for years. Since Clinton I.
My position in not that of “a passive consumer,” it is the expression of a twice and thrice betrayed lover.
As Butch II so illiterately stated, “There’s an old saying in Tennessee — I know it’s in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can’t get fooled again.”
I have been half-fooled once…Clinton I…and maybe a quarter-fooled again…Obama. Shame on me. But…never again!!!
Bet on it.
And…I think the majority of the electorate is going to feel the exactly the same way after seeing things like this:
4,361,783 views so far.
How many people voted in the 2012 election, Centerfield? About 130 million. Roughly 4% of the population looked at this vid. How many other people will it take to turn the revulsion at HRC’s lame set of factual tapdances into decisive polling numbers? 4% is pretty heavy right there. In Obama’s so-called “landslide” 2012 victory, he only won by 7.27%
Uh oh!!!
Still 7 months to go.
UH oh!!!
AG
You’re a very passive consumer of politics. Cranking your yank on political blogs is not a substitute for effective organizing.
Your descriptions of your “conversations” with the many people you claim to know who are Trump supporters are revealing. You never describe yourself as having tried to talk any of them out of the misinformation and flawed logic which supports their decisions to support a fascistic, racist, sexist demagogue. You just describe yourself as receiving their baloney without response, then dutifully regurgitate it on this blog.
Why would the very opinionated Arthur Gilroy become silent in response to a Trump supporter? No attempt to dazzle them with his knowledge and progressive views?
For someone who claims to value your multicultural community, you sure do a piss poor job of defending it. You want Trump to win. You are attempting to organize for it, relatively ineffectively, but attempting it all the same. To deny that is to be delusional. I refuse to enable your delusions.
You are right about this much…I rarely try to talk ignorant people out of their opinions. I make an exception on this blog. Perhaps I shouldn’t in your case.
You ask:
“Why would the very opinionated Arthur Gilroy become silent in response to a Trump supporter? No attempt to dazzle them with his knowledge and progressive views?”
None whatsoever. I don’t try to teach pigs how to fly, either. It doesn’t work and it makes them very angry.
On this blog and in other civilized discourse with intelligent people who I am fairly sure are not armed or particularly dangerous to my immediate health and wellbeing, I can be quite persuasive.
Speaking of delusional, do you really think that I am so machiavellian that I would pose as a Trump opponent in order to somehow convince a handful of people that they should support him over Hillary Clinton?
Get real.
AG
After reading this post, I can hear Trump singing this song, now that he is the presumptive Republican nominee. No offense to Johnny Nash and I’m obviously not a Trump supporter. However, I do love this song.
Wasn’t aware of the Stone and Manafort connection. Yikes. Explains a lot. But they are both bad boys and have lived on the loot of the fat cargoes of their betters. But the party their champion now ‘leads’ is still settling by the bow and ‘the very rats
instinctively have quit it’; Trump the pirate captain of a foundering prize.
We’ll see.
It is nice to know who the key campaign aides are at this point in the campaign. One can develop strategies against their usual style of play–but that can also be a misstep in a US election.
The question of who pays Paul Manafort is his Achilles heel but not Trump’s. And then there’s the question of which media would out Manafort.
The electoral college math depends on Trump not only flipping Obama states but not losing McCain and Romney states. The demographic assumption is the whiter the state or the more intense the white supremacy vote already is in the state, the more likely Trump wins.
The assumption behind this is that Trump has burned his bridges inevitably with certain demographics and that all the charisma in the world will not repair that damage.
So which states will be flipped blue to red because of Trump’s charisma?
Which states will be flipped blue to red because of a 10% depression of Sanders voters sitting out or voting Green or for another party?
Which states will be held for Trump because the Kristol wing of the GOP comes around for Trump?
How much charisma play in the vote is there in normal elections? How much more will there be with the Trump and Manafort team?
How much and where (start with voter ID states) will election fraud be covered by the notion that Manafort managed Trump’s charisma? This is a major factor given that Clinton’s strength depends so heavily on delivering all of the demographics that Trump has pissed off.
Charisma can be undone by events. Part of the anger and uneasiness that is fueling Trump’s base could easily be undone by events. The powers that be deciding that they will be in trouble if workers are not paid, for example. The eradication of DAESH/ISIL/ISIS not just in Syria and Iraq, but also in Libya, Afghanistan, and the Philippines and any other places they slip out of those places to. Events in Guatemala, El Salvador, and Honduras that reduce desperate people at the Mexican border south of Texas. Some court cases on employers who recruit undocumented workers from Latin America. And then there is the Trump University fraud case that for now has been kicked down the road until after the election. Or the ever-popular-with-the-GOP Clinton email server case for which the intelligence community cannot decide what constitutes “classified” information. What happens if that failure becomes more widely known and more general that just one bunch of State Department emails? Who exactly is a “leaker” if Petraeus isn’t and Manning is, Clinton isn’t but…you get the gist. And what if Trump gets nailed in this ambiguity of classification now that the CIA is briefing a “loose cannon”?
I think the best thing for us all to do is to become conscious of which deals are going down through reading the behavior of those who would have been thought opposed to Trump who suddenly find him OK. As a matter of reference, there was a report that Warren Buffet finds Donald Trump an acceptable candidate.
You write:
Yes, indeed.
Knowledge is power.
But how to use that power?
That’s a whole ‘nother ball of wax.
AG
If GA and AZ are the tipping point states in November, electoral fraud will probably be more of a factor than a charisma gap in defeating Hillary Clinton.
At some point in order to preserve the horse race, the media will unleash on Trump. I don’t think he will reward them with advertising and neither should the Clinton campaign. Seeing some cable content bankruptcies would look pretty good this election year.
Cable content bankruptcies?
Don’t hold your breath, Tarheel.
The fixers need those cable companies, and they have enough wealth to keep them in business indefinitely.
AG
I understand that like Rush Limbaugh’s radio outlets, it’s not about profit and loss and the will to subsidize propaganda has deep pockets. But some pockets are deeper than others.
And it is possible for at least one of the candidates to stop playing the media game. And it is also possible that Trump might not want to make the media folks have lots of revenue. It is only the campaign consultants who get kickbacks that have a dog in that hunt then.
And then there is the alternative of social media, in which all the media companies also have a play independent of their cable brand.
AG, I suppose I ought to be flattered that you quoted me in boldface.
After reading this post, and the prominence you gave to Manafort, my conclusion is not that you have any special insight from keeping your ear to the ground, listening to the Man and Woman On The Street, etc. My conclusion is that you believe there’s a sophisticated conspiracy to install Trump in the White House. Not that this is a great insight: you advertise it regularly. So I guess the upcoming election is just one more example of what Noam Chomsky has called (to paraphrase) a system in which we are ruled by an elite but occasionally asked to ratify that arrangement.
I’m a nerdy scientist, and a lot of nerdy scientists like a certain cartoon that shows two guys in lab coats in front of a chalkboard covered with mathematical scribblings. It’s supposed to be a derivation running from, shall we say, A to Z, except that where part M ought to be are the words “then a miracle happens”. One of the guys in front of the chalkboard is saying to the other, “I think you need to be more explicit here.”
I’d like to ask you to be more explicit, AG, but I have a feeling your answer is going to be “WTFU”.
not to speak for AG, but i think you’re completely misunderstanding him.
the Manafort thing seems to be less a conspiracy than a signal that Trump isn’t as far outside as he likes to portray himself.
from reading above, I think the important part of what he said is
>>Trump has the “it” factor. Clinton does not. That’s why.
I don’t think this argument can be disregarded. It’s about the difference between talent and star quality.
Will Americans vote for the ridiculous star over the competent but less interesting politician? I wish I was sure they wouldn’t.
Yes, he says Trump has the “it” factor. I understand that. I understand that this guy Manafort is a snake in the grass, just like that guy Stone who also works for Trump. I understand that Hillary Clinton is a wooden campaigner who can’t given a simple, direct answer to anything. Watching and listening to her is painful.
AG also says all attempts to collect data, aka polls, are pointless, worthless, misleading.
I now await a rejoinder from AG telling me that I’m an idiot and that in fact he actually admires polling and pollsters and especially Nate Silver. He’s obliged to write something like that because by definition he has to reject whatever anyone else has written.
You really don’t have a clue about what I am saying, JDW. Like many “scientists,” you only understand what can be easily quatified and proven. Also, like many scientists, you appear to actually believe that “science” finds answers instead of only providing signposts to the next set of mysteries.
First…and of least import…you suppose you ought to be flattered that I quoted you in boldface!!!???
Don’t flatter yourself. Look around, podna. I put almost all quotes in boldface when I post here because I get the impression that people on blogs like this tend to skip and skim through quotes because…I suppose…the quotes can be considered somewhat old news and most people online are in a vicious hurry to get the the newest, latest, hottest-thing-ever parts so they can either kneejerk-agree or nkeejerk-disagree and go on with their skimming. The so-called internet revolution has turned most people into walking laboratories for attention deficit disorder study.
As for the more important stuff…where did you ever get the idea that I think Trump is the beneficiary of a “sophisticated conspiracy” to install him in the White House?
Please!!!
He is his own “conspiracy,” and I use that word in the full knowledge that it takes more than one person to define a “conspiracy.” Luckily…or maybe not so luckily…Trump himself is simultaneously a number of people. Go to my next post…up in a while, I’m working on it now…for more on that account. Long story short (and in his own words) he is out to break both parties if he can do so…certainly the RatPublican party as it stands now. The only “conspiracy” going on is among the PermaGov centrists of both parties as they fight tooth and nail to prolong their 5o+ year PermaGov electoral fix against a brilliant outsider who seems to have their number,
Learn to read.
AG
Apparently nobody has a clue what you’re writing, Mr Gilroy, given the frequency with which you denounce people for failing to grasp what you’ve written.
And my remark about flattery WAS SUPPOSED TO BE IRONIC. Sigh.
As for my profession, my colleagues and I do applied science. We investigate natural hazards and convey our findings to the public. Kind of different from what you seem to be imagining. We don’t all work on string theory, fer chrissakes.
No mention of your mistake regarding that so-called “conspiracy?” You still have the reading comprehension of a 15 year-old smartphone addict.
Skim on.
AG
P.S. You “investigate natural hazards and convey [your] findings to the public?”
Good work.
Carry on.
But…try to stay away from things that you do not understand. You are going to need all of your energy to deal with the many “natural” hazards that the modern world is cooking up in its headlong rush to destruction.
P.P.S. What kinds of natural hazards, JDW Just askin’…just curious. About everything. It’s my nature.
I’m interested in hearing some of your music one day. Just saying…I am.
Come to NYC. I have grown tired of all of the bullshit surrounding recording/promoting and almost exclusively play live now. Always something good going on. Use the email address on my profile. I’ll answer.
AG
Wow. First an insult, then a question about my profession.
So…you work at like an occupational drug testing lab?
Geologic- and hydrologic hazards. I work for a government agency.
Federal?
State?
Dependent on the government bureaucracies for funding, probably.
Good reason to be cautious.
AG
By definition if one works for a government agency one is funded by the government. Meaning by you, the taxpayer.
The Real Never Trump Campaign
Indeed.
And by definition, if one does not work for a government agency one is not funded by the government. Thus one is more free to say whatever one means without threat of negative monetary recourse. Thus my admonition “Good reason to be cautious.”
Which you most certainly are.
Cautious, that is.
I on the other hand, am free as a bird. Free to say and think whatever I want without fear of serious repercussions.
It never entered your mind?
Right.
I believe you.
You are so deep into the scene that all else is foreign to your very being.
Ask a fish about water and it will say “Water? What’s that?”
Swim on, little fishie.
Swim on.
AG
Further…you say that it is me and every other taxpayer that funds the work of “government agencies,” and you are quite accurate on that point. However, that doesn’t mean that we are forbidden to be dissatisfied with their work.
Overall…most likely including your own section of the massively tax-funded bureaucracy…that system works about as well as the form of governance portrayed in the classic film “Brazil.” That is to say, it barely works at all except in the sense that each part of it tries to expand its share of the budget so that more shoddy work can be done and more shoddy workers can be hired.
This principle extends right on up into university levels as well. I have no more confidence in most of the supposedly scientific pursuits of the equally supposedly best schools in the U.S. than I do in the pronouncements of the NYC Metropolitan Transit Authority or the actions of the Federal entities that are tasked with controlling pharmaceuticals or overseeing the financial system. The whole thing is rotted out right to the core. Bought out by the 01% to represent what is most in their interests.
Read the following article if you have not done so al;ready. Big Science is broken
You are…by your own admission…part of that broken system. Maybe you are one of the ones that do as good work as they can manage inside of that rotted-out paradigm, and maybe you are not. I have no idea. But don’t run that “It’s taxpayer supported” bullshit at me.
So was the Iraq War.
Look where that got us so far.
Later…
AG
Junior year one of my Physics professors told us this story:
Once upon a time, Physics Departments supplemented their income by applying for a grant from the Bureau of Weights and Measures to measure the speed of light. Everyone got the same number to the same huge number of decimal places. Then a Journal published a paper by an English Electrical Engineer who had an alternate method that yielded a slightly different number (eighth decimal place or some such). [I don’t remember the details, maybe the length of standing waves in a wave guide?] He got a lot of opposition, quite a bit was because he was an EE not a Physicist. But eventually the new number was accepted. Now all the grant recipients miraculously find the new number to the same precision.
Yup.
That’s the way it works…
AG
AG–
Wow. A one or two line reply on my part, making a simple factual statement, provoked all that?
It’s amazing how you believe you can see into the deepest recesses of my psyche. How you know I am part of a “broken system”.
I’m probably making a huge mistake inserting this link, but here it goes:
Science in the public interest
We have no regulatory functions. No land-management functions. No resource-management functions at all. States, counties, municipalities, Native American nations seek out our expertise because of our reputation.
And now, I am done reading the insults. May your life go well.
You are so deep in the mix dysfunctional mix that you can’t even provide a working link.
It goes back to your post.
Talk about onanism!!!
AG
US Geological Survey
Try this as a working link.
Forget it, Joel. He’s rollin’.
(This thread is hi-fucking-larious.)
Told you
I like this post. It is another “alarm bell in the night”. Just from my geographically limited discussions with both educated and working folks; Trump is much more popular than the MSM give him credit for. In fact, the only people showing lukewarm support for Hillary are women with graduate degrees. Everyone else is, “Yeah, he is crazy but has a point.”
Was not aware of the Manafort/Baker connection. That is very telling. I have had grudging respect for Baker as the Bush Family/GOP factotum. His job of watching over Reagan as Chief of Staff when not a member of the “Revolution”, then out maneuvering the conservatives by switching positions with Don Regan at Treasury. Sec of State and Chief of Staff again. Even hopping on the Gulfstream to pull W’s bacon out of the fire shows his loyalty.
We have discussed that the GOP would fall in line behind Trump, despite the protestations. They love power too much. Manafort would have access to the files to get the old Bull Republicans to roll over and squelch whatever illusions of Statesmanship they have. Now the younger from the Gingrich era? They are already part and parcel of the GOP he created. Trump is just the overt manifestation of the election politics they have been practicing for years.
The only outliers are the poor deluded fools who actually believed the nonsense spouted by the GOP mouthpieces. Bloggers and 4th level media types. They are so few in number as to not count.
With the glorification of “business” not seen since the Gilded Age, I think we have to look to Reagan as a model for Trump’s election. Sure the country as changed since then but instead of Reagan’s stint as Calif governor being the basis of his “qualifications” and overriding past,crazy ideas and statements; Trump’s business experience will be used the same way to justify his ascent to the Presidency.
Now the question will be, who will be his minder in the White House?
R
Who will be his minder in the White House?
I suspect that he will not suffer any minders, RidgeCook. If he wins, his “minders” will be the Permanent Government establishment in general…Congress first and foremost, w/the intelligence services, the armed forces and the courts right behind them. He has no political party of his own…yet…and (ironically) his inauguration would pull together all of the disparate special DC interests in one overreaching task…making sure that he doesn’t:
1-Tank the entire country
and
2-Seriously disturb the .01%’s massive feedtrough.
Anything truly new that he wants to do will have to be done by executive fiat…which will suit his style very well. I personally think that if he does win (and of course succeeds in forming somd sort of an alliance with the armed forces and intelligence system), within three years…prior to the real beginning of the next presidential election…the U.S. will be living under a form of government that could quite rationally be considered a form of dictatorship. Autocratic rule from the top. A Trumpocracy, if you will. He will bypass Congress and the media, go straight to the people and attain popular approval of whatever he is doing that is so great that it seriously threatens the pork-barrelers’ positions in Washington. At that point, they will begin to OK whatever least harms their own little pork barrels, and so-called “democracy” as we know it now will be well on he way to being gone.
That’s why we are now seeing an unprecedentedly united front of all the wings of the Permanent Government in an effort to stop him. They don’t want to lose their perks. Simple as that.
Watch…
AG
Trumparcracy-
It would depend on if the media plays along. Will their corporate interests coincide with Trump’s. I see his popularity as a fragile thing. Could go all the way or could implode with the right revleations. In that regard, he is like Hillary and certainly business in NYC real estate means lots of skelatons around. Proof of those could mean a gold mine in either revleations by the media or pressure on the new President.
R
With the general electorate, Trump’s popularity is even less than a fragile thing; it’s a largely nonexistent thing. The Republican base voter is an outlier; collectively, they’re highly unrepresentative of the American people.
On today’s Conventional Wisdom shows, McCain caves in and said that Trump could be a “capable” leader. This is after McCain has condemned Trump’s Mexican remarks and Trump went after McCain’s war record.
Of course, McCain is in a little tight re-election mess and the internal polls must have been revealing. So you either throw the millions of Ariz voters of Mexican heritage overboard or risk getting swept away by Trumps popularity.
For McCain to walk away from all those consituents means that he isn’t worried about HRC’s appeal and the strength of her coat tails. If I was on Hillary’s campaign, I wouldn’t assume the anti-Mexican rhetoric will deliver Ariz and New Mexico.
R
If the Clinton campaign follows the recent past attitude of Presidential campaigns, they will have a minimalist strategy that undercuts coattails. With Trump sinking other Republican geography, AZ becomes a swing state but not a must-win for Clinton. She can sacrifice everything else but the Obama 2012 states.
Oh, yes… They love power and will fall in behind Trump, if they can. But the trickle-down, floats-all-boats bamboozle is exposed, at least for now, and that modern myth and all its myriad adherents, admirers, ideologues and advocates, a substantial tier of our entire political industry, are facing immediate retraining or, more likely, retrenchment.
The new CEO doesn’t give a sh*t for their conservative bona fides in fact was largely responsible for blowing the whistle on the whole business himself. All these ALECs, AEIs, institutes, academics, pundits, politicians and street performers who can no longer deliver the goods are potentially lacking patronage. Trump wonders how people can live on $7.25 an hour and the Earth swallows up another hand-full of lobbyists’ careers.
This would explain a lot of the angst publicly and somewhat shamefully on display at the moment. If Trump succeeds in making Ryan his new chew-toy this process gains the dimension of increasingly panicked urgency. So yeah, they will fall in line behind Trump, the lucky ones. The rest either won’t survive the coming long march or are smart enough to know their licked, for now, and probably too rich to give a f*ck. I always imagined this constant Republican messing about with ignorant voters and venal politicians was just a rich man’s pastime, like growing orchids. Bored plutocrats wagering on how far they could bend the system to their wills.
Good times. I think Trump’s ceiling is unlimited if he brings this Republican Party to heel. Plenty of Americans would like to see that and it would be an impressive leadership stunt.
Not such good times, Shaun.
You write:
“I think Trump’s ceiling is unlimited if he brings this Republican Party to heel. Plenty of Americans would like to see that and it would be an impressive leadership stunt.”
Yes, the first part of that statement is quite true. But…his “impressive leadership” style really does threaten to turn into the frighteningly unlimited ceiling of governance by fiat. The doors to this have already been thoroughly opened by the many executive actions of Bush II/Cheney and Obama, especially in terms of overt and covert military action and domestic intelligence gathering. Congress has laid down, and so have the courts. It would be nice to see some governmental entity stand up and really oppose Trump on every level, no matter who is leading the opposition. As things stand now, “checks and balances” have turned into “checks and money orders.”
Could happen…but I doubt it.
AG
This poll may be total bullshit, but if it isn’t…
Military would rather have Trump as CinC than Clinton
Oh, I have no doubt that it is fairly accurate…in fact, I’ll bet those Trump numbers are even greater. It stands to reason. Trump’s overall support is…so far…solidly dominated by what demographic? The working class demographic, the one with little college schooling, the one that does the so-called “blue collar” work here in the U.S…the working class, the lower-middle class and quite possibly the center-middle class as well.
So…who joins the military?
Duh…
Further…Trump has made a major point of courting the military. The working military, not the bosses…not yet and/or not publicly, anyway. He has repeatedly attacked the Veteran’s Administration over its healthcare issues for vets…rightfully so…and he has also said quite loudly that he will not place military personnel in situations that cannot be won. He has criticized the Iraq War on just those grounds, saying that if he goes to war it will be to win, not just to profit.
HRC, on the other hand, has cooperated in using the military mainly as a negotiating tool. Not to win, just to break maybe a little better than even in order to be able to negotiate with the opponents in a business sense. “You scratch our back and we’ll stop scratching yours so hard,” to recoin a phrase.
People don’t like being placed into mortally dangerous positions so that a few rival controllers can get together somewhere in a closed room and divvy up the spoils at a different percentage rate. Why wouldn’t they vote for Trump, even though no one is sure how many of his various lines are bullshit and how many are real. HRC has already proven to be almost totally full of shit through her actions as opposed to her public statements. These working-level military people…black, brown and beige…aren’t stupid; they are mostly the ones who climbed out of a disadvantageous social position into the only perch readily available to them…a military career that promises early retirement and a good pension. They want to live out their lives, not die at the hands of some crazed religious fanatic somewhere in the part of the world that the wonderful comic novelist Gary Shteyngart labeled Aburdistan.
Military for Trump? Possibly right up to the true, working officers as opposed to the Petraeus hustler types?
Sounds about right to me…
AG
The article states that there is more Clinton support among officers than enlisted. That fits your demographic analysis. Especially the ring knockers.