I’m not a trained political scientist and I’m not up on all their lingo, so I may not even know what they mean by realignment. They seem to have a definition for it that I don’t recognize. What I do know is that Seth Masket seems to be asking the wrong kinds of questions and using the wrong kinds of precedents.
For starters, he’s citing evidence that purports to show that previous political realignments have been very much bottom-up affairs. Then he’s telling us that Trump is very much a top-down candidate.
The first part seems potentially irrelevant, and the latter part is highly contentious.
Trump is very much sui generis, but that doesn’t mean that the road he’s on wasn’t largely paved for him. So, depending on how you want to look at it, either Trump is threatening to realign politics from the top down despite all precedents, or he’s actually just the culmination of a process whereby the grassroots became completely alienated from the Establishment of the Republican Party.
But what Masket is asking is if the Republican Party is as screwed up at the local and state level as they are at the presidential level. And, to try to get an answer to that question, he looks at the kinds of candidates who are running for office and whether the insiders or outsiders are doing well in Republican primaries.
It’s true that most Republican candidates look very much like traditional political candidates. There aren’t a bunch of Trumpistas winning primaries all over the place. But that tells us virtually nothing.
There’s a time lag between when these races took shape and when it became clear that Trump would be the Republican nominee. After the disrupting effect of Trump being in charge of the party for six months, the party may not just go back to being what it was before.
It also matters whether or not these conventional Republican candidates win or lose. Does it really matter if senators like John McCain, Roy Blunt, Ron Johnson, Mark Kirk, Richard Burr, Pat Toomey, Rob Portman, and Kelly Ayotte lose in a primary or the general election, so long as they lose?
To me, though, the question is about enduring change, by which I mean that we want to know if the GOP will snap back into being once the presidential election is over.
And, to answer that question, you want to know what’s happening to their mechanisms of power. You want to know how they’ve been successful and whether they’ll still have all the tools to be successful with the same strategies that have worked in the past.
So, I look at a variety of factors. There’s the three-legged stool of free-market capitalism, massive defense spending, and social conservatism. What happens when Wall Street backs a Democratic nominee, neoconservatives back a Democratic nominee, and a Democratic president locks in a Supreme Court that will be reliably pro-choice for more than a generation? Seems to me that the Republican stool is left as a pile of sawdust.
What happens to the Republicans’ traditional advantage with message discipline when they’ve lost the free trade argument with their own base, the social conservatives have no dog in the fight anymore, and the isolationist wing of the party is at near-parity with the internationalists?
What happens to their partisan media dominance when the talking heads are all squabbling with each other, blaming each other for their failures, and can’t agree to push one united message through each news cycle?
They lose their money advantage, the passion of their door-knocking envelope-licking foot soldiers, the ability to grind their wurlizter until their base is in a mass hypnosis, and any agreement on their basic raison d’être.
Now start with the most basic of concepts.
There are always more poor people than rich people, so a party for rich people cannot compete on an equal playing field. They always need to distract and divert attention from the fact that their policies are primarily aimed at giving rich people what they want. That’s why partisan media dominance is critical. That’s why a unified message is indispensable. That’s why they need to march in lockstep and never validate criticisms coming from the other side.
If they can suppress turnout, that helps, but it is easier to suppress turnout when you control the courts and the Department of Justice. Lose control of them, and this tool’s utility is greatly diminished.
It’s great if you can say that you’re the party of strong defense, but that’s harder to do when half your party is thinking about abandoning NATO. It’s great to say that you’re the party of business, but when business is actively supporting your opponent and opposing you because you won’t build infrastructure, pay the bills on time, or are always threatening to shut down the government, that gets a lot less convincing. Finally, when you lose the battle over gay rights and any chance of overturning Roe v. Wade in the foreseeable future, and the courts are ruling against you time and time again, it’s hard to argue that you can do anything for social conservatives.
What’s made the conservatives successful over the last forty-five years is a combination of these factors along with the racial component. And the racial component has already failed them, which is why passing comprehensive immigration reform was at the top of their priority list after the 2012 election.
How may of these factors that have gone out of whack for the conservatives are just going to snap back into place after the November election?
Finally, my definition of a realignment is when a significant segment of the population stops voting for one party and starts voting for the other one. Along with this, some states that voted reliably for one party either become swing states or the move entirely into the other column.
So, when Virginia, North Carolina, and Indiana suddenly went for Obama in 2008, that was a warning sign. The latter two went back to the Republicans in 2012, but now we’re looking at them possibly shifting back, and maybe Georgia, Missouri and Arizona will, too. States like New Mexico, Colorado, and Nevada may never vote for a conservative presidential candidate again, although they’ll almost surely vote for a Republican one at some point.
But the Republican Party is just a vehicle. It can carry Eisenhower and Rockefeller Republicans, Reagan Republicans, Palin Republicans or even Bull Moose-progressive Republicans. The question is, will it ever really be a truly conservative party again?
It’s the Humpty-Dumpty question. And the egg was cracked long before Trump emerged triumphant. Cantor is evidence of this. Boehner is evidence of this. Even the phenomenon of Ted Cruz is evidence of this.
The conservative stranglehold of the party is over. There is no more coherent and unified movement. They couldn’t govern as a majority party even before this happened, and there are poor prospects of them getting another chance.
And, so, what you’re seeing is a lot of Republicans saying that they won’t support the nominee, but a lot of them won’t be coming back. That, to me, is a realignment.
And the biggest realignment of them all is the youth vote, because although they’re only voting for the first or second time, they’re not conservatives and they have no sympathy for conservatives, and they could not be more unimpressed with conservatives.
Add it all up, and you have a party that needed a bunch of things to win because rich people are always outnumbered. And those things are all either shattered or burning like a dumpster fire.
“There are always more poor people than rich people, so a party for rich people cannot compete on an equal playing field. They always need to distract and divert attention from the fact that their policies are primarily aimed at giving rich people what they want. That’s why partisan media dominance is critical. That’s why a unified message is indispensable. That’s why they need to march in lockstep and never validate criticisms coming from the other side.
If they can suppress turnout, that helps, but it is easier to suppress turnout when you control the courts (rules committee) and the Department of Justice (state Party organizations). Lose control of them, and this tool’s utility is greatly diminished.”
Are you sure you didn’t copy that from a DNC field manual? Looks like exactly what the Democratic Establishment did to get this close to the nomination.
You need to get out of your bubble and walk around. Flowers are in bloom.
Out here in SoCal the Jacarandas are in ‘bloom’. Large trees that turn purple in the spring. They are a popular neighborhood and park tree. They first start to ‘turn’ south of the border and then it slowly marches north all the way to Frisco, in a phenomenon that is very lovely.
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https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacaranda
I love this time of year.
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Unless you have to park beneath a blooming jacaranda, like I do, and those damnable sticky purple things get into every nook and cranny of your car.
They look nice, but they sure do seem like a scourge on bad days.
Spring is beautiful, especially where I live in the swing state of Colorado. I wish spring could fix the truth but it can’t. I will give you one thing though, you certainly know your way around bubbles, especially neoliberal Establishment ones.
I think you have no idea the mood of the country right now or the least bit of appreciation of just how much trouble the Democratic Party is in for shoving down our throat the most hated, corrupt and vile candidate for President in at least my lifetime.
In this beautiful spring, because of the breath taking corruption of the Democratic Establishment, we may be forced to choose between Donald Trump and leaving the Clinton Machine in power. At the present time it looks like the Clinton Machine is by far the most dangerous choice.
The two issues driving that choice are economic and foreign policy.
Do we choose Hillary who will most certainly get us into another war or the Donald who might accidentally get us into another war? I think even you worry about that one. Trying to judge the sanity of these two people can certainly take one’s mind off the beauty of spring. At least Trump wants to make a deal while Hillary has a horrible track record or as some would say, has demonstrated time and time again a problem with judgment.
Hillary is the absolute powerhouse of neoliberalism, this time on a world scale. They want no less than to conquer the world economically but democracy is in the way, even our own. This time the goal is to cement into international law things that will allow corporations to take over the world including overriding the sovereignty of the United Sates making it impossible to change things if those things happen to interfere with the interests of the corporations, even on such grave issues as climate change and the health and safety of people worldwide. Thank you, Obama and Hillary for putting this together and promoting it, you both earned your money.
Is the price to pay, the iron price to pay, choosing Trump to stop the neoliberal Clinton Machine? I truly wish I didn’t have to make that choice but at least when that time comes, spring will long be over.
I did see a bumper sticker today, “Bernie in July or Trump in November.”
Trade agreements have proven to be the soft underbelly of first world nations–allowing their colonization by multinationals. The craft perfected!
Because Sanders and Trump are identical.
Or maybe you’re flogging the good old “let things intentionally go to hell and thereby heighten the contradictions” nonsense.
“…because Sanders and Trump are identical.”
Where did you get that silly idea, from Hillary or was it one of David Brock’s million dollar army of trolls?
This is not “let things intentionally go to hell and thereby heighten the contradictions” but an effort to stop the Clinton Machine before it can do some real damage that is permanent to our economy and permanent by getting us into yet another perpetual war of choice.
All of the Big Money flowing into the hands of the Clinton Machine is not for nothing as she tries to get you to believe. If she does not take office, all that corruption is simply not rewarded. Wall Street and the Koch Brothers are going to be pissed. Will they give her yet another chance to deliver her neoliberal agenda? Not likely.
Think about this for moment. President Trump will be hated by both the Republican Establishment and the Democratic Establishment. We might even see an unprecedented level of cooperation simply to obstruct Trump resulting in veto proof laws to reign in his and future President’s powers, potentially a good thing.
If the Democrats manage to lose an otherwise winnable election, the neoliberal pragmatic `progressive’ wing of the Democratic Party will be in serious trouble creating space for our much needed political revolution to actually begin. With the fear of Trump driving the political revolution, the Democrats could be poised to take back both the House and the Senate in 2018 with actual progressives of the Social Democratic type, not neoliberal Blue Dog types.
If Bernie is nominated he will become President and the political revolution that could last for decades begins with his nomination. If Trump becomes President, the political revolution begins as soon as the disgraced Clinton Machine can be removed from the DNC. If done quickly, in the 2018 midterms we will send as many neoliberal Democrats into early retirement as possible setting the stage for 2020 making Trump a one term President. If Hillary becomes President it should be abundantly clear by now that the political revolution will be severely crushed. That is until a new third party is strong enough nationally to challenge the Neoliberals. This last option is the least desirable because of not only the time it would take to become effective but a third party runs the risk of more years of Republican rule because of the three ways split at the national level. A Clinton victory in 2016 will all but ensure a Republican victory in 2020, just in time for the census.
As they say on the Godfather; it’s not personal, it’s business.
We have to burn this country to the fucking ground in order to save it.
#Trump/Arpaio ’16
I’m afraid that doesn’t actually mean what you seem to think it means.
You write: “
There is a secret field manual…rumored to have been written written by several of the Daily Kos people, maybe even King Kos himself…that lays out effective ways to answer unanswerable truths about the corruption that underlies the entire neoliberal system. One of the major ways it suggests as useful in answering problem-causing critics is right at the beginning of the manual. Here it is.
But…nevermind, AustinSax. Whether we are “paranoid” or not, the very definition of paranoia presupposes a sort of isolation from the mainstream. It is beginning to look a great deal like…worldwide…we are the mainstream, and it is further beginning to look like a fairly large swath of the U.S. population is also beginning to doubt the oft-expressed good intentions of the neoliberal Democratic establishment as personified by people like Hillary Clinton. Minds are being changed daily by the general breakdown in the neo-fix system (“Neolib or neocon…your only choices. VOTE!!!”) due to the increasingly obvious bias of the mass media towards what we laughingly call “the center.”
Win or lose, Donald Trump has shattered the media centrist consensus in terms of its total dominance of the American mind-hive.
What comes next? I do not know.
The prophet/poet William Butler Yeats received a glimpse of one possibility almost 100 years ago.
Dystopian to the max, but nonetheless quite possible. Is Trump that rough beast, a prime example of “the worst…full of passionate intensity” of which Yeats spoke?
I dunno. Looks that way to me.
But I think…despite all the efforts of our wonderful polling organizations and mass media disinformation providers…we are going to find out. Soon.
Very soon.
Later…
AG
“a party that needed a bunch of things to win because rich people are always outnumbered”
Right there – it was one of those things that seemed so unequivocally true but never panned out … until now, finally!
Read Masket’s article this morning and have been thinking about it all day. It felt intuitively flawed and, as I tried to get a handle on why, my sense is that Trump let the cat out of the bag. Cruz was lining up his marbles for the last several years, coldly calculating where the party would be in 2016 and placing himself there. Then Trump came along and stole all the cookies by challenging the notion that one need be conservative to win the party. Rather, one need merely seem angry and iconoclastic. That’s the true glue that’s held the party together, at least for the last several cycles but probably all the way back to “68 and the Southern Strategy.
Having washed the pig clean of all lipstick, mascara and rouge, we can now see this creature for what it is. And guess what? We’re not the only ones who see it. All the young Machiavellians on the right see it. So it’s just a matter of time before we get Trump impersonators copying and perfecting their own versions of his style. Heck, before long, Ted Cruz will be aping it too.
So, yes, I think it’s likely the Republican party as we knew it is dead. The country club types and the neocons and those who want foreign policy engagement in other forms will be independent for a time and maybe become part of the Democratic coalition or maybe split off into a third party.
I tend to think the racists and the religious nuts will make peace and line up together as they did under a Tea Party umbrella that was at first confused as to its lineage and core agenda. But that still leaves an unpopular rump of a former party. What’s happening upstream with Trump is coming down ticket to a jurisdiction near you.
Or the counter-intuitive where Trump’s additional out-of-the-woodwork voters are added to reliable Republican voters who might even skip the top of the ticket, resulting in strong down ballot performances.
Especially if the firehose of spending by the big players for presidential contributions is redirected down ballot. It could be a rout, given the usual appeal of DNC-hand picked candidates.
I remember the elevated hopes for NC and Kansas that late polling in 2012 produced.
Sorry, 2014.
It dies like the Whigs. Then we will either have a new Leftish party arising like the original Republican party did or a one party state like the former Soviet Union where oligarchs reigned under the banner of The People.
BTW It’s cold and rainy (like Washington State?) here, the apples and crabapples are blooming off. They were very pretty this year, reminded me of NoVa.
what is the difference between Cruz and Trump?
For me, it’s only that Trump doesn’t speak in dogwhistles.
There’s not a dime’s bit of difference between them policy-wise.
Cruz is a Christian Dominionist. He wants a state run on daddy’s version of Biblical principles. Does that sound to you like Donald Trump?
What happens when Wall Street backs a Democratic nominee and neoconservatives back a Democratic nominee? The Republican Party is a pile of sawdust … but what is the Democratic Party?
I wish that one percent of the ink spilled on the future of the other party was splattered in service of the future of our own. Maybe all these pre-post-mortems are right about the Republicans. What about us?
Realignments carry within them the seeds of their own destruction.
The New Coalition came apart over race.
The Reagan coalition came apart when Communism fell and it appear Roe was endangered. Bush resurrected in 2004 barely.
The current pattern is of a marginal Democratic advantage in Presidential elections, and a significant GOP advantage in congressional elections.
A political scientist might note that it is unusual for patters to persist for this long, and that something is likely to break.
The words “political” and “scientist” should never, ever be used consecutively, fladem. “Political” and “observer,” sure. “Political” and “expert,” maybe, although that term usually translates as “political hustler.”
However…you write:
I agree, and I wonder if this currently apparent sea change is simply going to turn out to be a pole reversal when all is said and done.
A “Republican”…if Trump can actually be considered to be a “Rpublican”… advantage in Presidential elections, and a Democratic advantage in congressional elections.
Could happen…
It would be one way for the controllers to remain in control…gridlock works to their advantage no matter which way the traffic isn’t moving. It’s easier to buy and sell people when they are stuck in traffic and feeling powerless.
Just a stray thought…
AG
No guess as to in which direction things might break?
I think at that point, there is a fracture of the Dem party in two or three election cycles. The tent can only be so big. It is my hope that the progressive wing speaks for the party, and that Sanders influence on the party and on Clinton this election has made it so, and that it’s the conservadems and Bloomberg types that fracture off and morph into the new Republican party without the racial grievance to try to woo religious AA’s and Latinos. The current GOP will then atrophy into one-issue party of racial grievance (ironic considering it started as the party of Lincoln).
I don’t see how any conservative party can maintain its identity unless there is an acceptance of minorities within their own tent. These 90/10, 80/20 voting splits are insurmountable.
There is no evidence of this yet.
The Generic Ballot right now is Dems +2.3 in the RCP average, about what you would expect given the change in the electorate from 2014. Marginally better than 2012 (which was about even), but nowhere close to the +11 in 2008. There is nothing in the generic ballot polling that suggests the GOP will lose the House, and really nothing to suggest the GOP is coming apart as you suggest.
We might take the Senate, but in general the polling doesn’t show real evidence of a down ballot disaster there either. The Senate is in play largely because of the seats that are up.
I am not convinced Trump is about anything other than personality. I think he will get killed – though PPP this morning has him down a whopping 4 points.
Trump has a decent lead in Indiana, and the Georgia poll has higher undecided among GOP leaning electorates. I a doubtful Georgia or Arizona are truly in play. North Carolina looks good – it is the one addition I can see from 2012.
Having spend a lot of time studying conventions and their effect on the electorate, I would be wary of making predictions. Trump has any number of ways to cover his right flank. Clinton has a number of ways to improve her awful favorable ratings. Usually conventions cancel each other out – but with candidates this disliked I suspect one candidate will get a significant advantage from them.
Agreed. I don’t see much evidence for it yet either. My assumption has been that, should Trump lose, the GOP will likely return to its normal state. I don’t think he’s likely to lose by a sufficiently large margin to force any kind of serious re-think by the party base. So 2017 to 2020 probably looks a lot like 2013 to 2016 outside of a couple SCOTUS appointments.
As PPP said on Twitter, that seems to be a function of the GOP unifying. The fact that he’s still down in spite of that is probably a good sign for Clinton.
Some of it might just be a bounce from locking up the nod, too.
I can’t take that Georgia poll seriously. There’s simply no way 15% of the electorate is undecided about these two people. I can imagine Georgia going blue or being very close this year under the right circumstances, but I think we’re still a cycle or two out from it. Ditto Arizona (but add an extra cycle on — it’s not as close to swing-state status as Georgia).
In a way, Bret Stephans in today’s Wall Street Journal makes Boo Man’s argument:
“But Trumpism isn’t just a triumph of marketing or the excrescence of a personality cult. It is a regression to the conservatism of blood and soil, of ethnic polarization and bullying nationalism. Modern conservatives sought to bury this rubbish with a politics that strikes a balance between respect for tradition and faith in the dynamic and culture-shifting possibilities of open markets. When that balance collapses–under a Republican president, no less–it may never again be restored, at least in our lifetimes”
http://www.wsj.com/articles/hillary-the-conservative-hope-1462833870
In general when you look at high undecideds in polls the PVI is pretty accurate in predicting the final result. That happened in 2014, where there were a number of close polls in deep red states. In the end all of them broke the way the PVI predicted.
WTF (What the Fuck) is PVI?
PVI = Partisan Voting Index
If in the future you choose to use an acronym that cannot reasonably be assumed to be already essentially universally understood (e.g., FBI, GOP, CIA, IRS, etc.), please write it out with the acronym following in parentheses (e.g., in the present case, “Partisan Voting Index (PVI)”) the first time. Don’t make us guess. Making a link of either/both, as you did in reply, would score bonus points. Once that’s done, feel free to deploy the acronym as many times as you wish in that same comment.
In the precincts of publishing that I haunt (e.g., scientific journals), this is just standard practice (cuz required!), for good and obvious reasons.
Unless you prefer to give your readers an incentive to become your non-readers. In which case you’re on the right path, don’t change a thing!
Scientific Journals? You mean as in Scietific Community?
Corruption! Bias! Tax Funded Waste!
You should immediately stop posting on the Internet. Unless you agree with me, then it’s OK.
👹
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in case you might want to reconsider your, um, whatever that just was.
Or not! Suit yourself.
That was snark.
.
I figured it was snark, just wasn’t clear to me initially at whom or what you were snarking. Now I think I get it.
Most people here know what PVI is – pretty standard knowledge for political junkie types.
But I was being lazy.
(I sometimes think to an unhealthy degree), I gotta question the validity of the assumption that
I expect I’ve probably seen the term before, but didn’t memorize it with its acronym. (My rule would be ‘if there’s any reasonable doubt that anyone choosing to read it will understand the reference by its acronym, then write it out the first time you use it.)
But thanks for the clarification.
is right, this piece is the definition of jumping the shark.
Fl Clinton 43, Trump 42
Ohio Trump 43, Clinton 39
PA Clinton 43, Trump 42
There is a lot of volatility in these states. In Florida Marist (Clinton +8) and SUSA (Trump +1), both good pollsters, find pretty different results.
What is interesting is the relationship of Florida to Pennsylvania. There is pretty good evidence Trump has alienated the Cuban vote in Miami. By contrast in Ohio and Pennsylvania look weaker in relative terms than they did in ’12 and ’08. That suggests increased racial polarization. Other polling in PA shows Clinton much further ahead – though there is another poll that has it close as well.
Absolutely amazing cross tabs.
Net favorables 18-34: PA, Sanders +42, Clinton -47, Fl Clinton -38, Sanders +35, OH CL -39, S +37
More data:
In Ohio Clinton leads 18-34 43-39. Obama won 18-29 in Ohio by 65-35 in 2012.
Clinton has a very real problem with the young. She is not close to the Obama margins.
Could it be because Sanders is still in the race?
Please don’t use data this way.
You write:
“And the biggest realignment of them all is the youth vote, because although they’re only voting for the first or second time, they’re not conservatives and they have no sympathy for conservatives, and they could not be more unimpressed with conservatives.”
So right now the data shows the GOP outperforming among the young versus 2012.
The data has for a while supported a different proposition than this. Pew noted that the young were leaving both parties: among the young the dominant trend is DE-ALIGNMENT. The exit polls from primaries showed incredible dislike for Clinton – numbers I had never seen before. The explanation was focused on Sanders himself. That might be true.
But maybe it was never about Sanders, maybe it is about Clinton. She is WAY below Obama’s margins from 2012. On the order of 25 points.
Maybe Clinton is just a terrible candidate for this group. I doubt it has much to do with Sanders still being in the race. If so maybe the Convention can fix this.
Right now this is a huge shift – if Trump gets within 10 after the GOP lost by 30, it would be an incredible improvement
But this is just one set of polls. Maybe PPP will shed light tomorrow.
From what I’ve seen, when Sanders is removed from the equation, the youth vote overwhelmingly move to Clinton. It’s like preferring to hang out with your grandpa, but you still love grandma and would go with her over drunk uncle Trump.
ratings never “take” here)
Yet Sanders lost Pennsylvania.
Some people don’t get that performance in the primary isn’t a predictor for the general election.
Well, please explain to this dummy how he lost with an 89% favorability advantage?
OT:
This Dark Money Group Spent Big On A Montana Judicial Race. Now We Know Why.
The billionaires behind the money had a little problem.
WASHINGTON — Ed Sheehy was driving home one day in the middle of his 2012 run for a Montana Supreme Court seat when he received a call from a local newspaper reporter. The reporter wanted to read Sheehy the transcript of a blistering new radio ad.
“Fortunately, I pulled over before he did,” Sheehy recalled for The Huffington Post.
……………………………..
Montana’s judicial elections are officially nonpartisan — candidates do not have a D or R next to their names. Moreover, the candidates are bound by a code of conduct requiring them to be “scrupulously fair and accurate in all statements.”
Even more surprising than the appearance of the anti-Sheehy ad was its source: not his main competitor and the ultimate victor in the judicial race, Laurie McKinnon, but a brand-new, little-known conservative nonprofit group. Called the Montana Growth Network, it had some big money behind it.
Spending to sway judicial elections has been increasing across the country for nearly two decades, but it soared after the Supreme Court’s 2010 Citizens United decision, which served to legalize unlimited electoral spending by corporations, unions and individuals. The court’s decision led to the overturning of Montana’s Corrupt Practices Act, which banned direct and indirect corporate political spending in the state. The Montana law had been passed in 1912 after powerful mining corporations, like the Anaconda Copper Mining Company, essentially took over the state’s political institutions, particularly the judiciary.
Montana is one of many states where funds have poured into judicial races from groups unaffiliated with judicial candidates — the kind of supposedly independent spending that Citizens United empowered. As the amount of money has increased, so too have the nasty attacks.
God, you should see the lunatics on the Texas bench. Same reason.
https:/www.texasobserver.org/2132-the-worst-judges-in-texas-in-these-courtrooms-justice-comes-to-a-
screeching-halt
Another element, rather than leg, of the GOP has been social media and talk radio. This race has shook up talk radio & Fox big time. Their ratings are at stake. Just as importantly, their ability to tell Rep who they are and what to think has been uprooted. And, to some extent, evangelical leaders face the same disruption.
Saw that David Brock’s PAC plans on making a stronger presence fighting back online. So what will happen when there is such strong pushback against the myths and fabrications that the GOP uses to promote itself dissolve? What will happen when Roger Stone’s whispers in Trump’s ears that come frothing out of his mouth fall apart in the wake of Clinton’s mega online pushback. If somehow they can permeate the Trump believers’ faith in him and see him as the con man that he is, the whole GOP industry falls.
the strength and robustness of the rightwingnuts’ Anti-Cognitive-Dissonance Shields, which have been necessary all along to allow them to remain comfortable within the Reality-Denying Community.
But now, for some reason, they’ll be swayed by David Brock?
Now, for some reason, they’ll even become aware of anything David Brock has to say?
I’ll believe it when I see it.
I doubt I’ll see it.
Take a look at the link and what they’re planning. Also, Trump has already broken the ice for distrust of the Fox & friends; add that to the Drudge vs RedState or Glenn Beck and you see the united voice of anti Obama has died down to be replaced by a Trump fight. Then look at what’s happening to the religious leadership that Trump has attacked.
So with the ice broken, mistrust in place, and then you have Brock’s counterpunches in play, the Right’s media leaders will have a rough ride and a tough time regrouping after the election (or before if you look at Rush’s numbers).
Now, the transparency of this (assuming they stick to it) seems a good thing. But ever confront a wingnut’s nonsense with inarguable facts sourced to, say, MediaMatters (which Brock founded)?
Been there, done that.
They’re immune. The defense mechanism is simply to dismiss the information out-of-hand due to the sourcing of it (“Soros . . . ! . . . bias! . . . [blah, blah, blah]”, no matter how plainly factual the information and bulletproof the documentation). As I suggested, the Anti-Cognitive-Dissonance Shields are for all practical purposes unbreachable by Reality.
Challenge them to document even a single uncorrected falsehood/factual error by MM, ever? Crickets. Doesn’t matter.
The feuding within the wingnut media that you mention is a whole nuther matter, though. It should at worst sow confusion in the wingnut ranks, who have for so long been so dependent on unified messaging from these “sources” to tell them what they think (a point booman made). That part’s all good.
My take on how effective Brock’s initiative is likely to be with the Brethren hasn’t changed, though.
Yes, agreed. My point being that Trump has chewed on the Right’s sacred cows so much and gotten so much coverage while he was doing it that he has softened up the general resistance all of us run into when having an online argument with a troll.
I do win against trolls from time to time, and I’m finding it easier now that Trump has told them how badly they’ve been treated. But, you can only get so far.
Thing is, the media that has told Rep who they are and how they should think have been taken off their pedestal by Trump. So question is, how will they rebuild themselves?
It would be interesting to find out what parts of the youth vote still align with the conservative movement and in what geographies.
Like independents, the youth vote is fragmented.
Most analysis just makes statements about the preponderance of the vote as shown in exit polls. I’m not sure that is going to be very accurate in 2016 when a lot of things are still in motion.
Billmon:
I’m trying to wrap my mind around a claim that I keep seeing here: if disgruntled Republicans decide to jump ship and come aboard the Democratic ship, it means that the Democratic Party will necessarily tack to the right to accommodate those ex-Republicans.
Perhaps it would be productive to look at actual examples. I’m thinking of Arlen Specter (Pennsylvania) and Lincoln Chafee (Rhode Island). Both were long time Republicans who jumped ship and became Democrats.
Did the Democratic Party lurch rightward when those two joined? Not that I recall.
I’d like someone to provide examples of the Democratic Party changing its tune to accommodate defecting Republicans, as opposed to those Republicans accommodating themselves to the Democratic message.
Oh, and snarky remarks about how Hillary Clinton is actually a closet Republican do not constitute examples.
Seriously, you are putting the cart before the horse. The party first changes to become more hospitable to former opponents.
Subversion is the name of the process and oligarchs are much better at it than Communists ever dreamed of being.
We are seeing it overseas through the use of debt to neuter dependent governments and lead them around by the nose.
Much cheaper than bullets, stupid neocons!