I’ve always been pretty skeptical about polls that attempt to measure how people feel about issues because we rarely have a vote on those issues that can confirm or measure those polls’ accuracy. If you tell me that Obama is leading Romney in New Hampshire, well, eventually we get to find out if you’re right. But if you ask me if people care a lot about McCain’s age, we never get to confirm that. Still, pollsters do ask these kinds of questions and we have no other way of trying to answer them.
Back in 2008, the matter of McCain’s age was polled rather extensively. And there are some things in that polling that might still be of interest. For example, it seems like around a third of the electorate will respond by saying that age is a concern for them. That’s the percentage that said they worried about Reagan in 1984, Dole in 1996 and McCain in 2008.
But, here’s where it gets a little more interesting.
The importance of the age question may be magnified this time around because it threatens to sap McCain’s support with one of his most critical constituencies: older Americans.
According to the latest CNN/Opinion Research Corp. poll, voters age 65 and older currently support McCain over Obama by 8 points (51 to 43 percent).
Older Americans are a group that, percentagewise, almost always turns out to vote more heavily than the electorate as a whole. McCain will need them firmly in his corner on Election Day.
Unfortunately for McCain, however, older voters also tend to worry more about the age issue than other voters.
“For younger voters, old age is an abstraction,” says CNN polling director Keating Holland. “For senior citizens, old age is a reality. In 1996, that difference hurt Dole with senior voters, but didn’t seem to matter to voters under 30.”
Did Dole’s age really hurt him with older voters in 1996? I guess I don’t know.
It’s hard for me to put myself in the shoes of someone who might ignore all the substantive differences between Dole and Bill Clinton and the priorities of the parties they represented, and cast their vote based on who they thought was more physically fit to “effectively govern the nation.”
But it’s not an entirely ridiculous question. Did Ronald Reagan show early signs of dementia during his first debate with Walter Mondale? And would it have been reasonable to change your vote from Reagan to Mondale based on your perception that Reagan might not be physically and mentally up to taking on a second term?
It seems to me that type of concern is largely addressed by having a vice-president. Of course, having a second who can fill in for you when you’re ill or exhausted is pretty straightforward, but what if you’re physically fine but deteriorating mentally?
It could be hard for staff to step in and convince you to take a break and turn the reins over to your veep. Certainly, Reagan never took that step.
We’re not a nation of Bill Frists who can remotely observe someone on the stump or campaign trail and figure out how healthy there are, which is why it’s important that we get detailed medical reports on the candidates and nominees.
The thing is, human nature being what it is, people will form their own impressions. Maybe it’s true that older voters will weigh this much more heavily than millennials. They do, after all, have a much better sense of what it’s like to work long stressful hours when you’ve reached an advanced age.
Pew Research found in 2007 that 48% of Americans said “they would be less likely to vote for a candidate in their 70s,” which Trump is and Clinton isn’t. They also found that older Americans were more concerned about the effect of aging, with 40% of retirement-age Americans saying McCain was too old to serve but only 24% of people under 35 agreeing.
Of course, one of the reasons I don’t put too much stock in these kinds of survey results is that no one can tell me what it means that 48% of the people were “less likely” to vote for McCain because he was so old. How many people actually voted for someone else for that reason?
It seems to me that older Americans probably had an easier time identifying with a man of their own generation than a guy like Barack Hussein Obama, and whatever concerns they had about McCain’s age were probably no more than the tiniest statistical noise in the actual results of the 2008 election.
We can always find someone who will give strange or idiosyncratic reasons for voting the way they do, but that doesn’t make them politically significant.
The most we can confidently say is that people do think about how strenuous it is to be the president of the United States and they form opinions about whether they believe the candidates can withstand the rigors.
Perhaps, unsurprisingly, Rasmussen finds that Clinton’s health (whether it’s a concern or not) falls along partisan lines. Republicans say they’re concerned, Democrats say they are not, and independents are divided.
Of course, a wise person puts no stock in Rasmussen polling. Perhaps better to look at other polling outfits with better track records. For example, the Huff Post/You Gov poll finds that “just 39 percent of Americans currently believe that Clinton is in good enough physical condition to effectively serve as president for the next four years.”
The HuffPost/You Gov poll was in the field after Clinton had her medical episode on September 11th but before her doctor Dr. Lisa Bardack released reassuring information about her condition. It was also, as Huffington Post notes, “largely before Trump’s interview with Dr. Mehmet Oz on Wednesday, in which he discussed his love for fast food and shared that he considered emphatic hand-waving a form of exercise.”
While it’s true that early voting is almost upon us (e.g., Vermont and Minnesota start 45 days before the election), the September 11th event will be a distant memory by Election Day.
I think, and I hope, that people will vote based on their vision for the future of our country, and not based on subjective and speculative factors like how likely it is that Donald Trump will drop dead from Big Macitis and lack of exercise.
In the end, we’ll never really know what impact any particular event or consideration had on why people voted the way they did.
Perhaps age is used as a substitute for “out of touch” because it’s more objective and quantifiable and it’s true generally that with age people do become “out of touch.”
1976-2000, the older (by ten or more years) candidate won three times, and the younger one won five times. Too small a data-set to draw any firm conclusions. However, which candidate in ’80 and ’84 and also ’88 and ’92 appeared most out of touch?
A generational perceptual difference is that young people see lots of older people that still have their marbles and health. (Cheney continues on without a heart.) Whereas, older people are familiar with lots of people their age group that are gone and no longer have their health and/or marbles.
>>Perhaps age is used as a substitute for “out of touch” because it’s more objective
this also gets turned around, and “out of touch” gets used as a substitute for “too old” because it’s slightly less impolite.
we’re seeing this in my Congressional district, where Mike Honda (age 74 i think) is defending his seat for the second cycle in a row against younger DINO Ro Khanna.
Honestly, I’d buy the argument in favor of the new blood, if only the two were similar in viewpoint. They aren’t and I’m voting for the more liberal.
Honda is a good guy. If he beats Khonna a second time, then what? Does Khonna try again in ’18? Is there anyone standing the wings that could capture Honda’s base when he retires and defeat Khonna? How determined are Khonna and his funders to get this seat?
Those are some excellent questions. I’m not tuned in enough to even guess who else might be waiting, let alone have an opinion of them.
Honda is old and must someday retire, and Khanna has spent all this time investing in name recognition, but if Honda wins again this November, would his funders keep backing a two-time loser? Your guess is as good as mine.
re why this district for Khanna, it’s heavily Indo-American. the Fremont district (Swalwell?) is the other one where his ethnic group could have impact.
Donald, and how did it taste
Boiled? BBQed? Grilled? Roasted?
w/ “O/T”.
Delicious considering he used the announcement to con the networks into a 25 minute infomercial of veterans endorsing Trump and then delivered a sentence at the end.
My speculation is that Roger the Ailes set this up. It has his oder about it.
My understanding is that Trump also used the time to pimp his latest property in Wash DC, which rents out rooms at some ginormous amount per night.
Cui Bono?
Why the .001%, of course, which includes the Media Oligarchs. Trump has promised to cut their taxes, cut all possible regulations, sell off federal lands, including national parks, to them for pennies on the dollar.
I’m sure Trump really hated walking back his birther bullshit, but he did so whilst managing to BLAME it on Clinton.
In all, my take on this shit show is that it was a big old WIN for Trump and the Oligarchs.
I don’t even take cold comfort knowing that jackoff finally admitted Obama is a US citizen. I mean, seriously, how pathetic is this whole thing?
But make no mistake, Trump has made some big time DEALS with the Oligarchs, and we’ll no doubt be treated to similar spectacles going forward.
re:
No question he attempted to blame it on Clinton.
That was the bit I LOLed hardest at.
I pay pretty close attention to stuff, and unless something totally slipped by me anyway, that was about as ludicrous a Trump lie as I’ve heard to date (and THAT’s sayin’ sumthin’)!
So – a bit of history buried in a comment. Which is appropriate.
IN 2008 at mydd there was an avid Clinton supporter name Texas Darlin. MYdd was just very combative in the spring of ’08. Texas Darlin was always yelling about how Obama was a misogynist. The mydd archive is long gone, but Texas Darlin migrated to a PUMA site.
Her real life name is Linda Starr. She connected with a lawyer named Phillip Berg, who filed the first birther suit.
Texas Darlin had a blog – which is still up but requires a password.
So the Birther movement began in part by a vicious troll at mydd.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/sep/23/donald-trump/hillary-clinton-obama-bi
rther-fact-check/
To be clear, Clinton had nothing to do with it. Some of the Clinton types went crazy – see hillaryis44 for example.
An odd bit of history to be sure.
You make it seem like HRC is significantly younger than Trump. It’s 2 years. (68 to 70) Maybe it’s my own presence on the border of the millennial generation that makes me say this but how is 2 years going to matter compared to the individual genes of how we age? Trump could be more robust at 70 than HRC at 65 or HRC could live 20 more years to 88 and Trump 5. It’s impossible to say.
It would be easier to judge if we had the same medical information on both. But Trump doesn’t provide that. One wonders why. Likewise with his wealth.
How many levels of lies is Trump living?
Not even two years:
Trump – 6/14/46
Clinton – 10/26/47
I thought Bernie Sanders, the oldest one of all in the primaries, showed more physical vigor and connection with young people than any of them. And maintained the most punishing schedule to boot.
I’d like to see Hillary Clinton & Donald Trump do this:
Also off topic but I find this disturbing
The nation’s largest police union on Friday endorsed Donald Trump for president, lauding his commitment to police officers. The Fraternal Order of Police gave the GOP presidential nominee its endorsement after he received support from more than two-thirds of the group’s national board.
http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/296342-nations-largest-police-union-endorses-
trump
Just a point of clarification in case anyone had illusions about who the Fraternal Order of Police are.
That’s not good for Clinton. FOP has quite a few members in Ohio, Florida, and Pennsylvania. However, the FOP usually endorses a Repub–one of the few unions that does so.
“In recent presidential elections, the group’s backing has been much sought after because of the heavy concentration of law enforcement officers in several of the key states. The group counts 39,225 members in Pennsylvania alone and another 24,181 in Ohio and 19,912 in Florida.”
http://blog.workingamerica.org/2012/09/10/national-police-union-refuses-to-endorse-romney-first-such
-refusal-in-98-years/
Interestingly, The International Association of Firefighters (IAFF) is not endorsing a presidential candidate for 2016. The IAFF usually endorses a Democrat. Here’s what General President Harold Schaitberger said at the national convention:
“We have two candidates that seem to have trouble telling the truth. Their rancor and rhetoric is over the top. We hear it in the media among voters of all stripes — and I know we are hearing it in the stations where our members work. We have a serious split because both candidates have negatives and unfavorable ratings that are at historical and record breaking numbers.
As a board we have discussed that deep and emotional divide in strongly held positions throughout our ranks. So we decided that endorsing a candidate for president in these circumstances would be devastating to so much of what we built and counter-productive to our members interests.”
http://www.statter911.com/2016/08/15/firefighters-union-will-not-endorse-trump-clinton/
○ The IAFF has not made an endorsement in the 2008 presidential election
Giuliani Gets Exposed As Fraud by Firefighters
President Bush at ground zero on Sept. 14, 2001 and presidential candidate John Kerry addressing the
International Association of Fire Fighters earlier this election year. (Photo: NBC News )
○ Bush-Kerry split first responder vote in 2004
I think they are correct in the effect it would have in their ranks.
The interesting thing about age in this election is that neither party really has a strong bench in the same way parties of the 60s and 70s did. And the GOP this year embarrassed itself with how weak a bench it had.
The Democrats on the other hand have so many old war horses in Congress that there aren’t the middle-aged rising stars or the young ambitious lot in the Democratic Party for President. Democrats also lost a bunch of governors who might otherwise have been contenders.
So this year all around wound up with oldsters.
But, today’s health at 70 for a lot of people is equivalent to 50 during the 1950s.
My guess is that Hillary Clinton might be in better health than Donald Trump and more capable of going long days, even if she risks dehydration on occasion.
Trump’s cognitive function is a worry; his impulsive mouthing off and lack of a self-censor is one of the things that cause adult children to seek help for their parents. Watch that behavior. Trump doesn’t seem the type to delegate when he is incapacitated.
Until we have some conventional physical reporting on Trump, it is hard to say exactly what his condition is.
But what we have gotten about Clinton is alarmist drivel.
But what we have gotten about Clinton is alarmist drivel.
Which is what happens when one side actually puts out some real and substantive data on their overall health, and the other side puts out the equivalent of a junior high school sports physical. The media pores over every minute enzyme level of Clinton’s metabolic panel, while accepting that Trump is healthy as a horse, simply because he doesn’t have a hernia or an undescended testicle.
Correction: less than junior high sports physical. The letter from the gastroenterologist was a joke and had no actual data or medically robust conclusions.
My wife: Brooklyn raised Jew. Raised not all that far from where Bernie grew up, Her first reaction when I said I was for Bernie:
“He is too old”
She really struggled with it. She thought it would be big problem for him.
Bernie would be 75 when he took the oath. He would have had about a 25% chance of dying in office.
I think it matters but in the election is a wash.
FWIW.
McCain’s age was definitely a liability in my opinion because he picked Sarah Palin as VP. That video of Jack Cafferty is tattooed in my brain.
In fact, not even Bill Frist hizownself is a Bill Frist “who can remotely observe someone . . . and figure out how healthy [they] are . . . “.
See Schiavo autopsy results.
He should have been reprimanded by some appropriate medical board or other over that blatant malpractice.
OTOH, we do have folks here who imagine they DO possess requisite powers for performing that magic trick (won’t link, don’t wanna troll).