I think there’s some irrational exuberance in Peter Beinart’s latest piece in The Atlantic. Certainly the headline (The Death of ‘He Said, She Said’ Journalism) goes too far. It’s nice that the New York Times reported on Donald Trump’s abandonment of Birtherism by calling it the abandonment of a “lie” and noting that he offered no apology. It’s nice that they did this on the “front page, top right—the most precious space in American print journalism.” But, this is still an aberration. It’s not the “death” of “he said, she said” journalism.
Beinart uses a pretty good example to illustrate the problem created when political actors brazenly lie.
For an example of such a story, consider the way the Times covered George W. Bush’s claim, during his campaign against John Kerry, that Saddam Hussein had worked closely with Al Qaeda. “Bush and Cheney Talk Strongly of Qaeda Links With Hussein,” noted a Times headline on June 18, 2004. Why were Bush and Cheney raising the subject? Because the day before, the 9/11 Commission had reported that Saddam Hussein and Al Qaeda did not have a “collaborative relationship.” Nonetheless, the Times reported Bush’s claims and Kerry’s response as equally valid. Bush himself had helped create the Commission to provide an authoritative, nonpartisan account of the events leading up to 9/11. Yet the Times refused to grant its view any more weight than Bush’s own. It refused to render any judgment about what was true.
It’s true that the press struggled mightily to report on the Bush administration’s propensity to tell Big Lies with no shame, and certainly Vice-President Dick Cheney and his minions were the most guilty in this regard. They were also masters of trading access for at least neutral reporting of their falsehoods. An outfit like the New York Times wanted the Veep’s office to answer the phone when their reporters called. They wanted to get scoops and leaks from the Naval Observatory. As a result, they regurgitated whatever nonsense about Al- Qaeda or Iraq that Cheney’s team churned out, often with no more skepticism than noting what they were printing couldn’t be independently confirmed. If you followed the Valerie Plame affair and the trial of Scooter Libby, you saw how this worked very clearly.
The most infamous example involved the Judith Miller and Michael Gordon story on aluminum tubes that ran on September 8th, 2002. The short version is that Cheney’s shop leaked bad intel to the Times reporters about Iraq buying tubes that were supposed to have no other possible purpose than in an uranium-enriching centrifuge. Once the article was published on a Sunday morning, Cheney appeared on Meet the Press and told Tim Russert about previously classified information.
VICE PRES. CHENEY: Specifically aluminum tubes. There’s a story in The New York Times this morning- this is-I don’t-and I want to attribute The Times. I don’t want to talk about, obviously, specific intelligence sources, but it’s now public that, in fact, he has been seeking to acquire, and we have been able to intercept and prevent him from acquiring through this particular channel, the kinds of tubes that are necessary to build a centrifuge.
The Times was taken for a ride, but they valued Judith Miller’s ability to get access to people like Scooter Libby. Had they accurately reported that they were being used as a conduit to leak selective and highly contentious national security intelligence, their access would have dried up.
So, the need (and it is a need) for access is one reason why the ‘objective’ press is reluctant to report lies as lies. Another reason is that they worry about alienating huge chunks of their audience (or potential audience) if they’re perceived as taking sides in political debates. They believe that they’ll undermine their credibility and their reach if they come out and flatly assert that one side of the political divide is flatly wrong or lying.
When you combine this desire for access with the value they place on being perceived as objective and non-partisan, it becomes much too easy to manipulate them into promulgating talking points, innuendo, and big and small lies.
There’s no easy way out of this conundrum for a press outfit that aspires to be ‘objective.’ But it really becomes an acute problem when there’s a massive disparity between the basic honesty of the two sides of the political divide. It’s true that Hillary Clinton has told a whopper or two in her history, but there’s nothing in her record to compare to Trump’s multiyear Birther project or even his day-to-day lie-a-minute campaign.
In this case, the Times was incensed enough to break their standard of practice and report Trump’s Birther comments for what they were. But the way he lies and the way the Republican Party, more broadly, has abandoned reality-based politics is breaking the whole model of ‘objective’ journalism.
If they want to be truthful and ‘objective,’ they have little choice at this point to give up on the idea that they can avoid the perception that they’re taking sides. They’re going to have to lose some of their reputation for even-handedness in order to maintain their credibility with the reality-based community.
In other words, when one side nominates a Birther, it’s not possible or advisable to try to maintain some kind of perceived journalistic neutrality with the Birther’s supporters.
I have been talking to Desmoinesdem about the ’95 Russian election between Yeltsin and Zyuganov.
The press was incredibly unfair to Zyuganov. But how exactly do you be fair to someone who wanted to re-establish a totalitarian state?
She was in Russia at the time and thought they went way too far.
But it is not an easy question to answer: when someone objectively represents a threat to democracy how do you report objectively about it?
If someone objectively represents a threat to democracy, shouldn’t that be the focus of the objective reporting?
My recent long comment here should have been a response to this post of Steggie’s.
AG
You write:
Is “objective” reporting even possible as things stand now? We are living in a news-reported virtual reality. It can be changed…as it has been recently changed over the incredibly short period of less than two weeks regarding the odds on the coming election…basically at the whim of the controllers.
Booman pinned it in a recent post. I was traveling and not saving tidbits of info, so I do not really recall the context, but he was writing about someone high in the DC controller system who said something that was ostensibly a policy statement but was really a shot across the bows of the media to warn them off of being too critical of HRC/too favorable to Trump. (Maybe an editorial? A video? Gates? Whatever.) Booman observed that this worked very rapidly. (Chime in here, please, Booman. I don’t have the time to do an exhaustive search right now.)
Anyway…how can we be “objective” when everything we believe to be true is as easily changed as would be the bits and bytes on a giant computer? Some totally out-there nerds are positing the idea that we are living in a virtual reality that has been created by some advanced civilization somewhere/somewhen (From the Bank Of America, of all places!!! And Elon Musk, too.) They are way off. We are living in a virtual reality that has been created by the people who seek to control us.
Always remember this astonishing little piece of information that surfaced during Bush II’s reign, ostensibly from that pioneer turd blossom of reality warping, Karl Rove:
We’ve come a long way in 12 years.
Haven’t we.
A little piece of old-fashioned reality…you remember, when things actually happened in physical time.. peeked out of the virtual one last week when HRC almost fell on her face while surrounded by Secret Service helpers and someone managed to film and disseminate it. It was quite clear what happened to anyone with a well-functioning set of eyes. (A state that could be defined as a result of some kind of genetically-carried natural resistance to The Emperor’s New Clothes virus that has been with us for eons. The kid in that story was immune, way back then.)
Now…a week later…she’s suddenly all better and any doubts expressed on that subject are pegged as “lying down with dogs.”
Nice.
Maybe they’ll cure the common cold with it, too.
Until we start sneezing, of course.
Sorry.
Hand me a virtual Kleenex, please.
I have a genetically-borne allergy to pure bullshit.
No matter what asshole does the shitting.
Later…
AG
Now a standalone post. Objectivity!!!??? Out the Virtual Window.
Please comment there if you wish to do so.
AG
It is most often easiest for a small group with sizable power to outrun the reporting and analysis with rapid action. The time it takes large enough numbers of people to move strategically (even implicitly) against that small group is sizable. But it happens.
That’s what the media began working against a month ago. A complete blowout is their worst case financial situation for ad revenue from a $2 billion campaign.
Since we’re going down memory lane with the Bush administration, this old quote seems pretty relevant to a discussion about relationships between politicians, truth, and the press.
There you have the necessary counteraction.
Change events on the ground so that the GOP and Trump and most of the GOP downticket experience a catastrophic loss.
What the aide let loose is that in acting the Bush-Cheney administration was transgressing all sorts of political norms and ethical principles.
Getting out the vote in every precinct in which there is opposition to GOP candidates would do that. The GOP would just steal those precincts. Democrats have to do the hard work of getting people to the polls.
Maybe if the Democrats start telling Big Lies as often and brazenly, and the media is faced with ‘news’ that has no basis in reality on ‘either side,’ they’ll have to take the terrifying, unprecedented step of actually evaluating the veracity of bullshit claims.
The notion of an “objective” press has always been b.s. Choices are always made even in determining what’s news and what isn’t. When the networks had a huge audience, their flag carriers were able to maintain a veneer of objectivity while occasionally throwing it off, like an expenditure of capital, to call out untruth or injustice. If history turned out to be on their side, it only added to the stature of both the organization and the mouthpiece. Of course I’m talking about the way Murrow spoke out against McCarthy and how Cronkite spoke out against the Vietnam War.
All of that has broken down now. The pea counters have taken over the news divisions. Look at how MSNBC turns into a netork of schlock on Friday and doesn’t reset back to a left-leaning news organization until Monday. Is there no news on the weekend? No one has the credibility to reset the narrative the way Morrow or Cronkite could.
Things have just finally gotten to a point, in part because of the echo-chambers created by the internet, that the great lie of objectivity is now beginning to fall apart.
There’s a use for the kind of objectivism we get on the Nightly Network news or that we get in some (news sections) of the top newspapers in the country. Yes, it’s also an aspirational kind of objectivity. The point isn’t to resemble some kind of passionless robot. The point is to be a place people can go to get a take that isn’t created with primarily an eye to how it plays politically.
I’m not going to go to Daily Kos to verify if some new internet rumor is true. I’m not going to go to National Review for that, either. I’m going to go to the ‘objective’ press, and I might look several of those sources, domestic and foreign, to try to get a real feel for it.
It’s also problematic. Like I said, you have sources that you’re trying to cultivate and they don’t like it when you burn them or call them out. They’re find someone else to give a choice quote or background information or a big scoop. That’ll probably be your rival or maybe even someone below you in your own newsroom who’s looking to supplant you.
It’s not easy to be a bigfoot investigative journalist and avoid these conflicts. Not everyone is a Walter Pincus, and you can find examples of him getting burned, too.
But I wouldn’t want them to just go transparently partisan in some misguided acknowledgment that objective journalism isn’t possible.
The GOP is breaking their model just like they’re breaking our government.
Don’t you mean “objectivity”? “Objectivism” is something totally different.
There’s no doubt the GOP is breaking their model of journalism. I agree that it makes more sense to go to a “credible” news organization if one is trying to confirm a rumor. My point is that the veneer of objectivity can be dangerous in another way, hiding biases from the public eye. Had the media not had credibility for objectivity, it couldn’t have helped cheer us on into the war in Iraq or perhaps even Vietnam. Gulf on Tonkin — total b.s.
There was no such thing as an “objective” press until the 1830s. That’s probably in part because social values changed so much. There was once this idea that an objective truth existed but there wasn’t much of a notion that it could be separated from values. So each side argued vehemently that it’s version of truth was the real one. By the late 19th Century, and then particularly after World War I, such Enlightenment and 19th Century ideals had given way to a new paradigm in which it was seen as possible to view truth as a function of facts, completely separate from values.
The notion of natural law was completely tied up in values. God had certain values and they were right and good and true. Mechanized war had much to do with the obliteration of those values. Hard to make sense of death, to see it courageous or anything other than senseless and tragic, when machine guns rip through flesh without consideration of the bravery or idealism of the men and animals under fire. With mechanized war came mechanized society came a mechanized ideal of journalism.
However, ultimately that was just another illusion. It could only function so long as certain social norms were respected. When everyone and everything’s for sale, which is what it is when news organizations trade favorable coverage for access, then we’re in a Nixonian world where everything and everyone has a price. One could say there was an evolution from the belief in an objective God to an objective reality to only an objective advantage.
I was told a couple of years ago by a reporter for The Oregonian, published here in Portland, that management considered her primary duty to be maintaining a blog and keeping it “lively”. This is someone who had been covering Oregon state government and whose byline commonly appeared on the front page.
Apropos the New York Times and Trump’s pathological lying, I don’t see how calling out the lies is a bad thing, but I doubt it will have any effect, regardless how much the Times articles are reproduced elsewhere. Trump’s supporters don’t give a rat’s ass whether he’s lying. They support him because he’s an authoritarian maniac, not in spite of that fact.
So there’s no way short of societal collapse to break the spell?
I talked to a reporter I know who used to to work at a Boston newspaper last week.
She said just about the worst thing that has happened to newspapers are click counts.
The simple truth is long investigative pieces don’t gets enough clicks to make them economically as attractive as a piece on a celebrity or a crime.
It’s starting to appear that the (mostly feeble) attempts at fact-checking are simply irrelevant. The campaign of endless lies by Repub candidates has become simply an essential feature of their party, and has been for quite some time now. The partisans of both sides know who they are voting for based on party, and at this stage of the game, they simply will not vote for a candidate from the other party for any office. At best, they will leave a line blank.
The independents are often motivated by hostility to being seen as a member of either major political party–they are “above” all the disagreements and “partisanship” and supposed obduracy. Many (not all) are famously low-info and averse to politics. What these low-info voters vote on is anyone’s guess at this point, but it surely doesn’t seem to be policy positions, or even “social” issues. I’m starting to suspect they respond to the candidate seen as having the greater charisma, even if half the stuff out of the candidate’s mouth is total nonsense and falsehood. The “persona” is the critical element.
Ultimately, the vast majority of Repubs are going to come home to Trump and will reject any idea that he is somehow a crypto-fascist. Or even unqualified! They will literally risk anything over a demonic Dem…
I’m afraid you have given an almost perfect synopsis of the likely state of our politics from now until, well…maybe forever. At least until the entire edifice comes crashing down and we have to rebuild anew from whatever detritus remains from The Great American Experiment.
Based on some of the arguments I hear from such self-proclaimed folks, your description of the mindset of the “independent voter” seems sadly and eerily accurate to me.
Well let’s face it their entire platform is based on policies that don’t work (e.g. trickle-down economics, more guns keep you safe etc.), and denying reality (e.g. climate change, racism doesn’t exist etc.) so of course they need lies to defend themselves. They cannot use reality and truth as these would expose them for what they are; frauds and puppets for monied interests.
These same monied interests own the media so why the hell is anyone surprised that they get away with it?
We need some analysis of proportionality in “whoppers” then.
And consequence.
Because on both of those, the GOP is several quantum levels higher in political energy. And so is Donald Trump.
It is this sort of symmetric granting of arguments that undercuts the import of “objective” coverage.
In a polemical season, truth requires not being sloppy with rhetorical feints, if that was.
“Whopper” used to mean a huge outright lie, as in opposite of the actual facts, Not just a suspicion of something fishy.
For that to be salient in an election campaign, it must be about a topic of consequence. Dodging bullets in the former Yugoslavia does not rise to that level of consequence. Simply because “the greatest dealmaker ever” has set the bar of what is a salient consequence. A business model of bankruptcy (and the consequnce on “lesser” lives that has) and borrowing apparently isn’t in 2016.
It is easy to see that the irrational hatred of Hillary Clinton is inversely proportional to the consequence of the charges made.
This is a signficant issue because, the deliberate post-modern engineering of political speech confounds otherwise straightforward alliances against the GOP.
Everybody lies sometimes. For politician, it’s part of their job, and I don’t mean that cynically. We often have intense disputes between different parts of society, and politicians sometimes need to lie to make the losers accept their losses. Even when it’s not absolutely necessary it can smooth things out. It’s the same principle as saying your Aunt Mabel’s fruitcake is delicious when it has the taste of clay as well as the texture, except for much more important things.
With a major public figure like Clinton, inevitably you’ll be able to find lots of “lies” made over the past 30 years. Given the very narrow bandwidth of the mass media – pretty much one story a day tops – you could fill up a campaign with nonstop analyses of any longstanding public official’s “lies”. It means nothing.
Unfortunately people don’t understand the concept of representative samples. If they see and hear about something all the time they think it’s pervasive regardless of whether it actually is. If you use a representative sample, Clinton turns out to basically be the most truthful candidate of the 21st century (although pretty much tied with all the other major Democrats). But ordinary people don’t look that up, they just hear the media endlessly microanalyzing her statements for inaccuracies.
It is not a matter or representative samples. It is a matter of intense active smearing that nice Democrats and progressives often never see at all unless a reporter does their job.
Chris Hayes – 2007
And all the “where there’s smoke there’s fire” folk get completely taken in.
“Facts” are supposed to be difficult things, but today’s reporters apparently cannot recognize them, do not seem independently to know them and certainly don’t know how to report about them. And opinion statements often have a “fact” contained within them.
As for “lie”, there are many words in the English language, if reporters and editors are simply concerned about using a word fraught with moral implications: “false”, “inaccurate” “incorrect” “wrong”. It’s sort of a simple model: State lie as bleated by candidate. State this is “false” [or other word choice]. State actual fact and source of fact. Done. One doesn’t really need to report if Trump KNOWS he is vomiting out blather that is false.
Reporters and their producers/editors now resist doing this. The famous network nightly news currently does nothing but run videos of the candidates saying whatever they are saying that day. Virtually no independent editorial observation is offered. No fact checking occurs as far as one can see.
Cable news has rafts of 24/7 entertainfo and infotainment, but little attempt to demonstrate facts. It’s mostly uproar by teevee stars who are seen as partisans. Then there is the rise of one-sided partisan “reporting”, the various conservative rags and whatever category one wishes to place the WSJ. The Right wing monopoly of Hate Radio completes the picture, and is as far from objective as it is possible to be. This leaves the daily urban newspaper as the last organ attempting to be a part of the “objective” adversarial press the Founders envisioned, and most of these have fired half of their reporters and now simply license national stories from about 4 flagships, hence the obsession with the NYT.
In none of this can one see the mythical Lib’rul Media. It’s difficult even to see a reality based Media, although a Stenographic Media is fairly apparent. So the voter/citizen/consumer is left to piece it out by themselves, to the extent they care, and to the extent they have the ability (or desire) to determine the truth of a matter. And the years of happily wading through swamps of “conservative” sewage (or having it hosed upon oneself) also take their toll, of course. Thus the truth can only be glimpsed, darkly. Tax cuts raise revenue!
Objective in news reporting is straightforward:
If applies to both reporters and his/her sources.
There are two sides of that: research and presentation.
These days, those have to do with two different issues: research budgets and management pressure.
Fact-checking has never been as easy as it is today. Not every new or breaking news story lends itself to checking the specific alleged facts being offered by the source in the here-and-now, but context is more often than not available with a few minutes of research and follow-ups should be a part of the process in reporting. McClatchy did well in reporting on the great WMD hoax and those with “access” promulgated the hoax to scare the public.
For example, the first time a birther claim appeared, reporters should have tracked down the source, exposed that person, and secured the facts (birth certificate and birth announcement) and quashed the false rumor and never deviated from that position, including not giving the crazy birthers a media platform.
Every time I hear a reporter, or any news person for that matter, make a comment like, “Some people say”, or “There are some who believe”, I want to gouge my eyeballs and eardrums out with rusty fishhooks.
I don’t CARE what “some people say” or what “some people believe”, I care only about what it is supported by evidence, whether I like the result, or not. I cringe every night when my wife turns on the national network news. So often, it is mind-numbingly frustrating to even listen to what passes for reporting.
Every time I hear these types of things, I can just visualize the following exchange…”Among many Republicans, there are some that say Sponge Bob lives at the bottom of the ocean. There are those who disagree, largely people on the political left. And with that, Chuck Todd, we’ll have to leave it there, and let the voters decide. Thank you. Much food for thought in that report.”
Let’s talk about “whoppers”. This was BooMan’s Joisey Buddy Chris Christie being all Joisey on national TeeVee.
Objectivity ended the moment it became a requirement for news divisions to earn profits. And it has been aggravated by the imminent death of classic print journalism, which again is based around “the news” needing to provide profits to the shareholders.
“We Report. You Decide.” is probably the most apt description of most cable and network news to some extent. It is no longer concerned with providing citizens with information, but satisfying the entertainment preferences of consumers.
Stenographers are much less likely to upset the system and decrease profits than journalists, because they inherently avoid having to report on objective, observable reality (i.e. bias towards reality) and instead just provide the “he said, she said” BothSidesDoItTM dodge/BigLie.