I’m having one of those rare days that isn’t really compatible with professional blogging. There isn’t much I want to say about anything in the news right now. Either that, or I don’t have the time and energy to say it. One thing I noticed today that I’m willing to offer an opinion about is that a lot of progressive-minded people are savaging Al Gore for visiting Trump Tower to talk about climate policy.
I guess the idea is that Al Gore is legitimizing Trump which is something he shouldn’t do.
But, barring some miracle, the Electoral College will select Trump as our next president on December 19th, so I have trouble seeing how acknowledging that is somehow giving him more legitimacy. If Al Gore can have any positive influence over climate policy with Trump or his daughter Ivanka (with whom he also met) then I think that’s a plus.
If not, then I don’t see much harm in having tried.
Do you see this differently?
I think a lot of this is down to the success the GOP had with 100% obstruction but there are some different factors here. Even the GOP met with Obama sometimes. Democrats are not as united (at least not yet) in an obstruction primarily because many believe in process and/or because Trump is hard to peg and maybe influennced. Our voters are not their voters and it’s hard to say if 100% opposition will work to our benefit. That said, I think Dem appetite for compromise will be reduced significantly.
I don’t think it will do any good at all and they’ll just be played for fools but I don’t have particular confidence in democratic leaders anyway and who knows maybe something worthwhile comes of it. If nothing else maybe Koch guys have to work harder counteracting any anti-Koch influence on Trump.
Personally I’d wait until after the electoral college certification as I think there are about 13 electors so far that have refused to vote Trump which about 1/3 of what is needed to deny it to him. I’d want to be absolutely sure it’s done before any meetings. Other than that I really see no harm in occasional meetings as long as you don’t start giving away stuff.
I think there’s plenty of time and places for Dems to be full bore obstructive. Sadly, that’s most likely not going to happen, imo, but I’m quite happy to be proven wrong.
Al Gore is now a private citizen and has been for quite some time. I have my own reservations about Gore, but hey, I seriously doubt that there’s anyone available on the conservative side of the street who’s gonna be willing or interested in speaking favorably about environmental protection and how to deal rationally with climate change.
Is Gore the best person for this job? Possibly not, but Trump is only gonna wanna talk to Big Name people and a Big Name White Dude is a plus.
So, eh? Go talk to Trump. It’s probably not going to matter in the end, but you never know. Maybe something beneficial for mankind and planet might stick. Worth a shot, I guess.
“No” seems the simple, obvious answer.
RE:
Yup.
Who cares?
Gore is not going to run for any elective office. What the hell kind of leverage does ANYONE have with Gore? Getting hot and bothered about this less productive than raving about the 2000 election.
Gore?
He got trumped by Bush I and the vote fraud thing in 2000. He backed down instead of fighting.
Now?
Meh…
Who cares?
Gore is just another loyal PermaGov worker, that’s all.
Different corporation, same product.
Bullshit.
AG
I’m pretty sure LIEberman engaging in some backstabbing was a major contributor. Although I’m not sure who Gore is permagoverning for in your formulation
I hate this stupid meme that some lefties have been repeating for sixteen years. Exactly where and how was he supposed to do this fighting?
He campaigned poorly and was no match for the slick team put together by the GOP to fight the recount. (Don’t freaking overlook the fact that the GOP raised gobs of money for the post election battle and Gore had to beg for the small amounts that his campaign received.) The latter of which not only got the win at the SC, but by then, majority public opinion favored Bush/Cheney over “Sore/Loserman.”
Gore won with the FL SC and in federal courts until the loser, Bush, appealed to the SC. Gore had no control of Bush appealing the case or the SC taking it up and overruling the FL SC. Let’s face it, Bush had the better attorney.
James Baker III. Once I saw he was involved, I knew Gore was dead in the water.
Actually Gore was defeated by me, an Oregon voter, ticking the box next to “Ralph Nader”.
Really. I really did vote for Nader in 2000. I won’t say it’s the stupidest, most mortifying thing I’ve ever done, but it has to be high on the list.
No he didn’t. There is no better lawyer in America than David Bois.
He lost because there were 5 Republicans on the Supreme Court,
I am too tired for the rest of it. All of the myths: “Gore didn’t ask for a statewide recount” and “The Butterfly ballots”.
The media did a partial hand recount – and the margin was less than 200 votes.
It was goddam close, and some the reading of the cards was subjective enough that there is actually no way of knowing who would have won.
After the media recounts a Palm Beach columnist wrote:
The Florida election was the closest margin of any election decided by more than 200,000 votes.
Nearly 6,000,000 million votes cast.
The St Pete Times had their recount margin at 67 votes.
Several critical factors must be considered and retained.
1. Timing is everything. Note the date of the initial reporting of results from the “media recount”: Nov. 12, 2001.
Anybody remember a significant event occurring just two months, virtually to the day, prior?
Anybody recall the “mood” of the country at the time?
I have no doubt that even the reporters/editors/headline writers at “even-the-liberal” [hahahahaha!] NYT (and other “media consortium” orgs) were infected by the rally-round-flag-and-president feeling that was rampant at the time (also reflected in suddenly astronomical approval ratings for dubya), leaving them reticent to cast doubt on dubya’s legitimacy in that context, regardless how warranted by the data. Hence, the consortium recount results were spun hard in that initial reporting, with conclusions from a less-likely scenario of how the actual recount would have proceeded absent SCOTUS’ judicial coup blared in headline and lede (which became instant gospel to rightwingers — they believe LIEberal NYT when it tells them what they want to hear! — and remains so to this day), while results from actually-more-likely scenarios in which Gore won were buried farther down in the articles (if reported at all). For example (above link):
I’m glad you asked! Documentary evidence (e-mails) confirms that the judge (Terry Lewis?) FL SC put in charge of the recount directed the county elections officials to preserve all uncounted/rejected ballots, both over- and under-votes. Likewise, he was quoted in media that, if SCOTUS hadn’t halted the recount, he would have directed they be counted, too (thus eliminating one of SCOTUS’ main “equal-protection” objections, i.e., “what about the over-votes”?).
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Outrage is off the meter right now for a well known variety of reasons. This should not even enter into it. As you say, Trump will be the next president barring collision with a giant asteroid or the like. If this does even a small amount of good then thanks to Al Gore.
A lot of comments in the blogo-sphere indicate that the Trump administration has already failed, and by a lot.
I’d rather actually have him be sworn in and do stuff before deciding if he has failed. That includes a meeting with Gore, which might or might not be good.
Just so long as he has time to launch the pogroms, amirite?
And it pretty much boils down to whether or not you’ll be taunted for the next four years with the observation, “Even Al Gore met with the Trump transition team; why can’t you libruls just accept Trump’s legitimacy as President?”
This will come from the very same quarters that denied any legitimacy of the Obama administration, and refused to do anything for a staggering eight years because they wanted to deny Obama any kind of achievements, poisoning the atmosphere for his successor with the Democrats.
Sorry if I don’t want to treat with the obstructionists now that they’ve gotten everything they wanted. If they want to burn the country to the ground, there’s nothing politically we can do to stop it. But I decline to aid and abet their arson.
Grabien News
Yes Nancy, people voted for Donald -freaking- Trump because they don’t want a new direction. As for those “unifying values,” what did voters hear from national Democratic campaigns in the final sixty days? Other than “be very afraid of Putin, Russia, and Trump (and women must be especially afraid because Trump is a grabber).
Well we hammered on this for months but its not like anyone wanted to listen because we were sexists.
The message I heard was the ladies need to be afraid because Trump was going to do away with reproductive choice, and defund planned parenthood. That, along with his statement that women who have abortions should be punished was at least as terrifying as the “pussy grabbing.”
But at least he didn’t give any speeches to Goldman Sachs.
A golden oldie? Democrats have been playing that one record since 1980. And in forty years they’ve yet to make any effort in getting rid of a 1976 law that denies real women abortions that they desperately seek.
Maybe if Clinton and the DP had slung a bit more mud they would have won. Rather shocking that a billion dollar campaign couldn’t beat a half a billion dollar Donald-freaking-Trump campaign.
Half a billion? I guess you’re not counting the 24/7 free airtime Daddy Marmalade received.
And wasn’t repealing the Hyde Amendment included in the party platform this year? It’s a start, right?
This is your daily reminder that 2.6 million (and still counting) more people voted for Clinton than for Trump.
Must give you great comfort to remind yourself of that everyday while the WH, Congress, and forty-odd states are controlled by the GOP.
It’s not about comfort. It’s about post-mortems of her message being stupid, since it appealed to a lot more people than her opponent’s.
The goal is to win the election. She didn’t.
You can’t make sensible conclusions about future strategy from an unprecedented malfunction of the system involving a mere 80,000 voters in only 3 states.
I would hope that we would want to have a leader that would appeal to, stand up for and benefit an overwhelming majority of Americans and not just one that gets 1 more electoral vote than the other guy.
That didn’t happen and it’s not going to happen until the Democratic party starts caring about all Americans and not just their donors.
Yeah, losing all those Senate races and rural house/ state districts and governorships is just a malfunction of the Electoral College. Our mistake.
Comfort? It pisses me off. That’s twice that the D’s have gotten boned in the last five elections. I get that you’re cool with it because HRC but would you be so nonchalant if Bernie were the one jobbed?
This message brought to you by Double Down on Loserhood, an Identity Politics franchise. Yes, you too can spend the next 4 years in bitter anger over what might have been, never even once actually wondering why it happened.
Double down on loserhood today!! Don’t worry about tomorrow. Why, demographically, WE CAN’T LOSE!! No need to even think about a thing. The future so bright I need 2 pair shades!!
Impeach James Madison!
Thanks for your comment, but it seems worth remembering that most people didn’t vote for Donald Trump; indeed, over 2.5 million more people voted for Clinton than voted for Trump.
I have a professional acquaintance, a paleo-climatologist by profession, who has told me several times that he is a registered Republican. Party of Lincoln and all that. And I know for a fact that he served as a sort of science adviser to Al Gore. Figure that out.
A substantive comment.
One of the few good things George Bush ever did was introduce clean energy tax credits for wind and solar. Obama extended the credits – but an argument can be made that Bush is as responsible as Obama for the growth in clean energy in the US.
Those tax credits have built industries that employ more people than Coal does.
So hell yea he should meet with Trump if it gets him to extend the tax credits.
“Nice beachfront resort you’ve got there, Mr. Trump. Be a shame if anything happened to it”
Not off topic of climate change, but a curious development…
http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2016/12/saudi-arabia-surrenders-to-u-s-shale.html
“This, in its way, is as momentous a shift in global power as the stunning recent Brexit and Donald Trump votes. Whereas Brexit showed Europe to be in absolute decline, while the election of Trump brings to an abrupt end 70 years of the U.S. as the global ordering power, the Saudi’s meek surrender brings to a close the long age of OPEC domination of the world’s energy market. This year truly has seen the death of one world order, along with the uncertain birth of another.
While the Saudis are hoping to persuade the Russians to go along with their fragile deal, to reach even this stage meant Riyadh wholly giving way to their hated enemy within the cartel, Iran.”