One occupational hazard of political blogging is that you will shut your lights off at night with a good idea in your head about what you’re going to write about in the morning only to discover at dawn that someone has done an adequate job of it while you were sleeping. In this case, I was victimized by Marcy Wheeler and her piece: Jeff Sessions Unforgets the Discussions with Russians He Twice Swore He Didn’t Know About.
I had noticed more than one article last night that cited people in the Trump administration or its close orbit who attended a March 31st, 2016 meeting at the Trump Hotel in Washington in which George Papadopoulos raised the prospect of a personal meeting between Mr. Trump and Mr. Putin. These sources were admitting that Papadopoulos made the pitch, but insisting that Jeff Sessions eventually cut him off, said it was a bad idea, and requested that the topic not be brought up again.
Here’s the New York Times’s version:
Mr. Clovis and others immediately expressed doubts about the wisdom of the idea, noting that Russia was under United States sanctions and denouncing the “optics” of a meeting with Mr. Putin, according to a former campaign aide who attended the meeting.
But Mr. Trump listened with interest and asked questions of Mr. Papadopoulos. Mr. Trump “didn’t say yes, and he didn’t say no,” said the former aide, who agreed to describe the meeting on the condition of anonymity.
Finally, Mr. Sessions, as the campaign’s top national security official, spoke vehemently against the idea, asking others not to discuss it again. Mr. Trump did not challenge him, the former aide said.
Here is the version provided by CNN:
Candidate Donald Trump did not dismiss the idea of arranging a meeting with Russia’s president when it was suggested in a meeting with his campaign foreign policy advisers last year, according to a person in the room.
The idea was raised by George Papadopoulos as he introduced himself at a March 2016 meeting of the Republican candidate’s foreign policy advisers, according to a court filing.
“He didn’t say yes and he didn’t say no,” the official said, declining to be more specific about Trump’s response to Papadopoulos.
But the chairman of Trump’s national security team, then Alabama senator and now attorney general Jeff Sessions, shut down the idea of a Putin meeting at the March 31, 2016, gathering, according to the source. His reaction was confirmed with another source who had discussed Session’s role.
Obviously, Marcy noticed the same thing as I did and beat me to the punch of spelling out why this, if true, is the clearest evidence yet that Jeff Sessions perjured himself under questioning from Congress.
The totality of Sessions’ Senate testimony, both at his confirmation hearing and subsequently, is highly dubious on this point. But his clearest perjurious statement came on October 18th, when Sen. Al Franken of Minnesota asked a very specific question: “You don’t believe that surrogates from the Trump campaign had communications with the Russians?”
Sessions responded, “I did not — and I’m not aware of anyone else that did. I don’t believe that it happened.”
Marcy points out that two weeks prior to this testimony, the Justice Department that Sessions heads had obtained a guilty plea from Papadopoulos who can only be described as a campaign surrogate. In fairness, Sessions has recused himself from that investigation and so should not have been aware of the fact that Papadopoulos had copped a plea and openly admitted to having communications with the Russians, including a person who was represented to him as a relative of Vladimir Putin.
On the other hand, if he had been aware of what Mueller knew about the March 31st meeting, he might not have felt free to lie so brazenly about it to Sen. Franken.
The only defense here is that Sessions forgot all about the meeting, but now we are given the story that Sessions “spoke vehemently against the idea” of a meeting between Trump and Putin and asked the other attendees “not to discuss it again.”
And I guess I should be clear that Papadopoulos was explicit that he had made contact with a representative of Putin’s and that his idea for a meeting was more than hypothetical.
In late March last year, Mr. Papadopoulos emailed Mr. [Sam] Clovis and others that he had discussed with his contacts — a London-based professor with Moscow ties and a Russian woman whom he described as a relative of Mr. Putin’s — the possibility of a meeting between the Trump campaign and Russia’s leadership.
“Great work,” Mr. Clovis responded, according to the court documents and interviews.
At the meeting, Papadopoulos was pitching this exact point. But Sessions testified that he was not aware that “surrogates from the Trump campaign had communications with the Russians” and that he did not believe that any of them did.
Prior to now, most of the focus has been on the fact that Sessions was himself a surrogate of the campaign and that he had failed to disclose three separate meetings with Russian Ambassador Sergey Kisylak. But we now have a further example of the attorney general’s forgetfulness.
What’s amazing about this is that someone in the Trump administration is pitching this clear evidence of Sessions’s perjury as an alibi against seeming proof of collusion. The “vehement” opposition to a meeting with Putin that Sessions allegedly expressed makes it much harder to argue that he had no recollection of surrogates talking to the Russians. And they’re hardly doing the president a huge favor in portraying him as open to the idea. Who are they trying to protect?
Perhaps this is a limited hang-out, where the plausibility of the claim is enhanced precisely because an unhelpful confession is included. The president isn’t innocent of poor judgment, but he didn’t ultimately authorize or attend a meeting. This would be my guess at what we’re seeing here.
But, in that case, it could have been done using someone other than Sessions as the person who shot it down. After all, as far as I know, none of the other participants would be exposed to legal charges for playing that role since none of them testified under oath that they had no knowledge of any communications with the Russians.
As for Sam Clovis, he’s now testified to the grand jury, and no doubt this meeting was a major topic of their discussion. That may explain why the sources for Sessions’s role are all anonymous. Going on the record could land someone in front of the same grand jury and that’s not a place where you want to spin fables.
To me, it’s plausible that Sessions didn’t object at all and that this is just a way for the Trump administration to explain away damaging information. But whoever decided to advance this story, whether it’s true or not, clearly didn’t think through the implications for the attorney general.
The next time Sessions has to testify before the Senate, he’s going to be in an impossible position.
Whoever stopped George P. in his proposal is sure to be someone up the chain of command from George P.
Did Trump gesture in any way, say be raising the don’s (or the Donald’s) authorization finger?
Meetings where everyone gets their orders but no decisions are made. Mysterious and magical events where nothing shows and everything happens.
They met with Veselnitskaya in June, after Sessions “spoke vehemently against the idea”.
The Trump Jr. email setting up the meeting also contained promises of email dirt on Clinton.
They can’t keep their lies straight.
so what happens when Mueller has a grand jury indict sessions on perjury charges. does this let drumpf select a new ag and will the new ag fire Mueller.
Don’t give Drumpf any ideas!
Perhaps Sessions’ usefulness has come an end?
Not particularly useful comment: God, they’re all so awful.
I mean, it’s like the Bush II cabinet, who were a bunch of monsters…but at least had legitimate credentials. These guys are all con men, dupes, morons, grifters, or (in terms of the ones with conventional government experience like Pence or Sessions) yahoos, creeps, and religious crazies.
some of them, Clovis, for example, may be appointed in vain attempt to buy their silence.
My sources in the USDA are pretty certain that, after what’s come to light, Clovis the Hut will not get Senate approval for the Chief Scientist position.
sorry, yes, I meant to write Clovis the Hut.
re: confirmation. lawrence O’Donnell talked about that. evidently Debby Stabenow sent L. O’D her first question while he was saying CtheHut’s nomination will have to be withdrawn, she will ask a question about Mueller.
For a few days, his resemblance to his infamous ancestor is providing entertainment provided he doesn’t actually become Sec Ag
Wouldn’t that be Clovis the Hutt?
Between this and the possible KOTOR reference, I really do feel like I’ve wandered into a Star Wars thread. In that case, may The Farce be with us!
indeed, it’s Clovis the Hutt
interesting Seth Abramson thread on Clovis.
(THREAD) It’s now almost certain Papadopoulos wore a wire during the last 90+ days. Here are the implications. Hope you’ll read and share.
I
tried to insert, too large or something, so here’s link
https://twitter.com/SethAbramson/status/925115577190010880
“Not particularly useful comment: God, they’re all so awful.”
I’ve seen that format for responses before. It’s the way HK-47 in the Knights of the Old Republic and Star Wars: The Old Republic games speaks. Is that where you got it from? Just the same, you’re absolutely right. They are all so awful!
The only “proof” that Sessions “argued vehemently against the meeting” is some anonymous sources in CNN. We don’t know whether these sources are really credible, or not. We don’t know anything but what CNN tells us: “”He didn’t say yes and he didn’t say no,” the official said” and “according to a person in the room.” So, we have the testimony of someone who was in the room.
The only significance of this is that this piece of the investigation is now going public. Mueller presumably already knew it, but is it going to lead to perjury charges against Sessions? Probably not. He always has the “I have no recollection at this time” defense which amounts to “I don’t remember.”
It’s hard to prove Sessions is lying although the clear implication is that he is.
I think we can assume that every Trump official lies all the time, but proving it in a specific matter is a different story.
Of course, Mueller knows exactly who was at that meeting, including CNN’s anonymous official. If that guy (or Clovis) come clean to the investigation, it doesn’t matter what Sessions says he recalled or didn’t, he’ll still be liable for perjury. In any administration except this one, including Bush’s disastrous Justice Dept., Sessions would already be gone. But Trump also knows that if he is fired, he would probably turn on Trump. It’s a den of thieves.
How would it matter even if it is proved beyond the shadow of a doubt that AG Sessions perjured himself?
I am asking what would be the legal consequences? Is that something that would be up to the Senate to bring charges in a court of law? The Republican senators will most likely completely ignore that over protestations from the Democratic members.
Does the DoJ bring charges against its own head in a court of law?
I don’t quite see where this will lead to!
The AG does not have the implied immunity that the President has. He can totally be indicted by Mueller.
Roger Stone’s second Twitter account threw Sessions under the bus on Monday. Said that they thought that Sessions was part of the team, but turns out he’s a deep stater. I can’t confirm that its really Stone’s account (@StoneColdTruth). And it was during that time that the guilty plea was unsealed and he was going cray cray.
I found the Tweet:
Because Jeff Sessions fooled us all @realDonaldTrump. We too thought he was a good choice, but it now looks like he was a #DeepState plant.
Beauregard, Beauregard, Beauregard. He will not testify in an open session before the senate. He will get cover from the GOP on the committee.
Maybe it’s a modified limited hang-out
imo the admin is crippled by their world view in which there are alt facts, they act as if there’s more give and take in what exists in reality.