It’s actually not that rare for the FBI’s counterintelligence staff to contact professors who work in sensitive fields, especially in science and technology, and who frequently travel abroad to warn them about the possibility that they may be approached by people who are actually spies. These people may try to have a sexual relationship with them or to offer them some lucrative business deal rather than coming out and trying to recruit them to betray their country. In Carter Page’s case, it went a bit deeper than this because it wasn’t a precautionary meeting. Page really was being recruited and the spies were eventually expelled. Page met with the FBI in 2013 and the spies were moved out of the country in 2015.
What’s really unusual about this case though is that Page responded defensively by telling the FBI that their time would be better spent worrying about real threats like the Boston Marathon bombers. And then Page went right out a couple of months later and told people that he had ties to the Kremlin as a way of promoting his academic credentials. The people that I’ve known who have had visits from the FBI’s counterintelligence team were a little freaked out but also respectful of the process and a little more careful going forward about their foreign contacts. They understood that the FBI was trying to protect them as well as the country and our technological secrets and advantages. The last thing they would have done is go around bragging about their connections to the Chinese or Russian government right after being warned that those governments might be trying to compromise them.
So, Page is a kook and heedless of the normal precautions, but I think that’s also why he has been such an easy mark. They promise him business deals and he’s all too happy to adopt their political line. It’s hard to figure out if he’s crazy like a fox or just dumb enough to not understand why he’s been getting so much attention.
As I have detailed in the past, many MANY years ago I was interviewed by counter intelligence FBI agents about a very serious spying case at the time. I was completely innocent of involvement, and I was 100% honest and forthright in our conversation, even when it came to my use of drugs…..which were involved in the case.
The interview was as congenial as such things could be. But one thing there was absolutely no doubt about, was that the two agents were not to be f$#ked with, not to be lied to, not to be talked back to. They were very serious about their job. There was no doubt that if they thought for one minute I was lying or in any way involved, I would have been put in the back of their car and taken to Los Angeles. It’s best to be courteous in those circumstances.
How is it possible for Page to be so stupid? How is it that people allow such a silly thing as greed to blind them? They FBI came to him and, in essence, did him a favor. He let Greed and Pride rule.
No wonder they are two of the `Deadly Sins’
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I can’t help but wonder if Page is a double agent. I heard Malcolm Nance say this week on CNN that he’s heard some speculation about this. Is the goofy act part of a cover?
Page may have been willingly duped by the Russians but I’m interested in the time frame between when the FISA warrant first kicked in in October and when the mysterious Rosneft deal was brokered. It may be that the wiretapping/surveillance captured many bigger fish in the net, so for that I’m hopeful the connections he made fried said fish.
He comes across as a total kook and flake, but he certainly has an impressive resume, although he ran into a buzz saw with his PhD dissertation which was rejected twice before being accepted by the University of London.
Some people speculated that he was a double agent. But you have to be really smart to pull that off and just listening to Page talk in interviews on TV or in Congressional testimony, it’s obvious that he’s as dumb as a bag of rocks.
So naturally, the Russians laughed at him behind his back and as far as I know never took him seriously until he suddenly showed up as a Trump advisor (because Trump only picks the “best people”) and the Russians saw an opportunity they couldn’t pass up and the rest is history.
OTOH, it could also be the case that Trump’s people (Flynn) deliberately picked Page and Papadopolous because of their Russian connections and to use them set help up a quid pro quo for Russian dirt and interference.
We’ll soon find out.
It’s something to think about,
Several times the Russians determined people were so stupid they could be compromised (with the FBI giving warnings), and then later those people end up being advisors to the president elect.
God the world is laughing so hard.
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I know he sounds dumb, but he graduated at the top of his class from the US Naval Academy, has an MA from Georgetown, MBA from NYU and PhD from the University of London. Had a fellowship at the Council on Foreign Relations. Etc. Fooled a lot of people, apparently.
As someone else pointed out elsewhere in the comments, it’s probably less a matter of Page being dumb (at least not in an academic sense) but just being a very odd duck. He holds some crackpot views and seems a bit socially awkward. He had a difficult time defending his doctoral dissertation back in 2012, although that may again be more due to his eccentric perspective Page had taken for his particular topic, although having not read it, I am hesitant to do more accept that all I can offer is mere conjecture. What I do know is that if a doctoral candidate and her/his advisor have a good working relationship, are regularly communicating as the research progresses, and are successful in working out whatever points of contention may arise as the work progresses, a successful defense in front of the dissertation committee should be doable (not necessarily easily, and the defense is hardly a mere formality, mind you, but doable). Worst case should be acceptance pending revisions requested by committee members. Of course, I have no idea what went on behind the scenes of Page’s dissertation process, but my impression is that somehow things fell apart probably fairly early on. Could be wrong, and I wouldn’t take my own conjecture on the matter as gospel by any stretch of the imagination.
I have a doctorate and lack of support from the chair or disputes between the chair and the candidate are not unusual. Sometimes these are never resolved and can result in a change in the committee or even transfer to another university.
After I made my comment I did see a comment further down suggesting Page’s behavior may result from an oddball personality, or odd duck as you put it, rather than lack of intelligence. This makes sense to me.
No worries. I’ve known folks who really did struggle in grad programs. It wasn’t due to a lack of raw intelligence. Quite the opposite, really. Rather, there seemed to be something else about these particular individuals that was off. Lack of social skills was mostly what I chalked it off to.
Smart people can lead themselves down some long, dark blind alleys. There’s no worse propagandist than your own self.
I’ve seen problems on the student side of the equation but also serious problems with advisers who have a great deal of power and more than you might realize wield it improperly. It is fairly common for graduate advisers to exploit students for their own benefit. It’s cheap, capable, captive labor. I have seen students black balled by advisers who consider them competition in their field. Academia is not an ivory tower and can be quite cut throat.
As noted in Sayre’s Law:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sayre%27s_law
Perfect!
Thanks for catching that. Problems with thesis/dissertation, etc. can also come from the advisor side of the equation. An otherwise excellent student can really struggle if their advisor does not have their back. Some sage advice I got from some folks I trust many moons ago was to be prepared to switch advisors or programs (if feasible) if caught in a situation where there was no hope of progressing based upon poor mentoring. I have some experience switching advisors midstream. It was hardly a seamless process, but long-run was glad I did. The academic world is a very vicious environment. A lot of folks have no idea until they get into that cycle of grad school, post-doc, initial tenure-track position, etc. The prospect of treating grad students and post-docs as cheap labor is clearly a problem, as are other potential abuses given the power differential that exists (including those of a sexual nature – and I would not be surprised if we see a lot of #me-too moments in the so-called “ivory towers” of academia in the not too distant future).
Can someone explain how the double agentry would work, in this case? And then why they would need a FISA warrant? (I may be picturing the whole thing backwards.) Thanks!
Serious question: why we do we keep putting SWAT team guys in charge of FBI counterintelligence?
I’ve been involved with the alphabet soup from DC. There is NO WAY you can do a 6 hour “interview” without obstruction of justice or perjury .. no matter what the base act is. (yes Virginia, there IS an NCIS. I was “interviewed” by them and MI6 [British Army Foreign Intelligence} for 6 hours on one day).
Carter page is an idiot. And not even a particularly smart idiot.
I still say Melania will be the final knife, but Page and Popodoupolis will be the ones to turn Trump so his back is exposed.
No matter the facts and regardless whether you’re guilty or innocent of whatever “base act” it is they’re looking into?
This makes it sound like “you”‘re at the whim of whatever outcome they seek at the moment, for whatever “reason” they may have, regardless of Reality. Is that really what you meant?
I mean, it’s easy to not lie. It’s really easy. Everyone is probably guilty of minor inconsequential crimes that nobody cares about. You don’t lie to the FBI unless you’re actually a crook.
It could be that ‘there is no way Carter Page can do a six hour interview….’ I can believe those guys can be intimidating.
Yes, oaguabonita, REGARDLESS of the guilt or innocence of the base act. You ARE at the whim of whatever outcome they seek.
The thing is, its not just the investigators. The DA has to sign off on it and they are not part of the investigation. So a lot gets swept under the rug (good and bad) because the legal eagles don’t want to defend it.
But when up to your ears in the alligator soup of investigation … you lose track of what you’re doing. The urge to embroider or deny is constant. Ask anyone whose been the subject of a serious investigation.
Whatever Melania knows she will save some for her book so she and Baron have money. The donald will bankrupt the entire family before he goes to jail.
In terms of political sympathies, no persuasion was needed. As early as 1998, Page was let go from an international consulting firm due to his “vehemently pro-Kremlin views.”
https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2018/02/03/carter-page-nunes-memo-216934
I don’t have TV service, so I haven’t seen him speak. I have read his congressional testimony. Looking at his life, I don’t get dumb. I get oddball personality disorder… and a hint of an Oswald vibe. I don’t mean I think he’d assassinate anyone: just that he’s a loner, restless, oppositional by nature, and noticeably odd.
I suspect he’s always had funny ideas running through his head.
Not the least bit surprised. The US appears to be burgeoning with right wing Putin lovers. These are the same types who wore brown shirts in the 30’s.
offtopic, and terribly behind the times, I was wondering if our host was still working at the Washington Monthly? I can visit that site at work, but not this one. I have missed seeing Mr. L’s posts there.
He’s still listed as the web editor.