The U.S. Constitution provided for a permanent Navy, but it would not do the same for an army.
The Congress shall have Power To …raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years….
ARTICLE I, SECTION 8, CLAUSE 12
Raising an army was supposed to take a special legislative act and be limited in time to meet some crisis. Of course, even at the slower pace of the 18th Century, in a time of crisis it could conceivably take too long to raise an army, so state militias were the first line of defense. The Constitution provided for this, too.
The Congress shall have Power To…provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions; To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;
ARTICLE I, SECTION 8, CLAUSE 15-16
At the time, the states were vastly more divided than they are today, particularly on the issue of religion. The Congregationalists of Massachusetts, the Presbyterians of New Jersey, the Quakers of Pennsylvania, the Catholics of Maryland, the Anglicans of Virginia and the Baptists of the Carolinas did not trust some overarching federal government to control their militias. This is why the states maintained the right to appoint their own officers and the training of their own soldiers. They would not have submitted to anything like the National Guard that we have today.
They also had the responsibility for arming their own militias, and this was partly because the federal government sure as hell didn’t want to pay for the expense. In fact, after the Whiskey Rebellion broke out in 1791, Congress decided that they needed to codify how militias were to be used in the future. In the Militia Acts of 1792, Congress was clear that the responsibility for arming the militias lied not just with the states but with every male citizen.
Militia members, referred to as “every citizen, so enrolled and notified”, “…shall within six months thereafter, provide himself…” with a musket, bayonet and belt, two spare flints, a cartridge box with 24 bullets, and a knapsack. Men owning rifles were required to provide a powder horn, ¼ pound of gunpowder, 20 rifle balls, a shooting pouch, and a knapsack.
Now, we’re working a little outside of a strict chronology here, but it’s easy to see how the 2nd Amendment’s concern with a “well-regulated” militia fits in. How, for example, could a man provide his own musket if he was prevented from buying one?
So, on the one hand, the distrust of standing armies and of an overarching federal power led to the adoption of the Second Amendment, and state militias would be remain under state control as much as possible during a federal muster. On the other hand, to make this practicable, the Congress soon concluded that every man must own a firearm. The Second Amendment only restricted what the federal legislature could prohibit, but the Militia Acts applied to the states and their citizens.
Now, consider that we have had a National Guard since 1903 and a standing army for much longer than that. I’ve never met anyone who wouldn’t move from one state to another because they didn’t want to live under a foreign religion. We haven’t had a draft since the 1970’s, and the idea that the federal government could compel you to buy a firearm seems tyrannical to every American citizen. If the government does compel us to serve, we expect them to pay for our equipment.
We got over our religious differences. We got over our fear of a standing army. We allowed the federal government to play a large role in our state’s militias when they were organized into national guards and reserves. But, somehow, we never got over our adherence to the Second Amendment. In fact, about ten years ago, the Supreme Court for the first time in our nation’s history ruled that citizens have an individual right to a firearm irrespective of their potential service in a militia.
We’re not living in a country anymore where everyone owns a gun or where every male citizen can be compelled to own a gun. We aren’t relied upon to race to the country’s defense if an emergency arises so immediate that there is no time to raise a standing army.
Almost every element that was present when the Second Amendment was enacted is absent now.
I recognize that many people still believe that an armed citizenry is a bulwark against tyranny, but it’s not much of one as the standoff at Waco made clear. The primary way that the Constitution tried to prevent tyranny was by denying the federal government a standing army. To do this, the Founding Fathers devised provisions to make a standing army unnecessary or limited in duration. The state militia system was their device for accomplishing this, but it’s a solution that predates the Napoleonic Wars. It proved itself unworkable over two hundred years ago.
The rationale for the Second Amendment is an anachronism. This is true if you look at the narrow language they used (A well regulated Militia, being necessary…), and it’s also true if you look at the wider context and purposes of the amendment. Not only is a militia no longer necessary, but the whole scheme we use for our national defense is a gigantic violation of the principles the amendment sought to preserve and protect.
When we get rid of our army, marines, and air force, and we eliminate our National Guards and Reserves, and we reapply the principle that our citizens must be ready to muster to the nation’s defense and provide their own equipment, then we can talk about how necessary it is to preserve the Second Amendment.
In the meantime, anyone who tells us that the Original Intent of the Founders requires us to consent to the easy availability of AR-15s and other like weapons, is completely misinformed.
GUN ENTHUSIAST: The Founding Fathers guaranteed my right to own a firearm.
ME: I know. In fact, they required you to own one.
A well written exposition. These things do have to be understood in historical context.
The second amendment should be repealed as archaic, but can you imagine the histrionics?
All we have to do to fix this, is embrace the 2nd amendment, and demand everyone get a gun.
http://www.sacbee.com/news/local/history/article148667224.html
Pictures like this – gun control laws in the US will make getting a security clearance look easy.
This actually happened in CA – at the time of these pictures, 1967, CA had a very, uh, liberal open carry law. Ronald Reagan put a stop to that!
Yes, because the main thing Republicans hate to see is black people carrying guns.
.
If every black person legally bought a gun, and as they picked it up, smiled and said, “Wakanda forever!”, the laws would change very quickly.
I’ve heard that a lot lately. Admittedly, I’ve said it a few times myself to make a dramatic point. The sad fact is that the police just shoot law abiding black people with guns on sight. White people get to carry guns around in public all day and have their 2nd amendment rights respected. Black people doing the same thing get shot. If every black person legally bought a gun, and as they picked it up, smiled and said, “Wakanda forever!,” the police would simply shoot them dead.
That is unfortunately true.
Unfortunately, conservatives have their own version of the Second Amendment (and entire Constitution for that matter) that lets them negate everything you just said.
You’ll never get gun fetishist into such a nuanced, fact base, discussion. They will just yell “SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED!” until you give up.
Just look at how they interpret the First Amendment to justify their social resentments and feelings of persecution in their “God-give homeland.”
Lincoln at Cooper Union:
“Your purpose, then, plainly stated, is that you will destroy the Government, unless you be allowed to construe and enforce the Constitution as you please, on all points in dispute between you and us. You will rule or ruin in all events.”
Nothing has changed…
Don’t need to look at Waco. There is a live civil war (genocide) happening right now. Your little assault riffles won’t do shit against a siege combined with modern air force.
An interpretation of the Second Amendment that finds the opening Militia clause to be analytically irrelevant (as the 5-4 Heller opinion does) is intellectually dishonest. It gets worse (from the “state militia” standpoint) in that a subsequent 5-4 decision held that Heller applied to the states as well–so state and local governments have no power to regulate firearms, either. So much for state power over their (supposed) militias! But for Roberts’ Repubs, the remarkable fact is that the law almost always turns out to be exactly what a “conservative” activist hopes it would be.
Also, too, it’s wonderful how “conservative” worship of the Genius of the Founders and (supposed) deference to their “original intent” doesn’t extend to the Founders’ horror of standing armies and a professional military. Thus, the Constitution’s distrustful anti-militarism is seen as the “anachronism” by the American right, but not the Second Amendment. The Exceptional Nation indeed! But in truth the “conservative” right has won the battle on both of these fronts: endless militarism and high-power firearm ownership as a “civil” right…
Historically accurate Founding Fathers or any 18th Century Enlightenment ideals they held have long been banned from public square discussion because it makes Republicans invoking “original intent” look really, really stupid.
Notice how conservatives always change their favorites depending on how current public understandings of a given Founding Father squares with modern Republican ideas.
This is the reason for Palin’s famous gaff, which happened not because she didn’t know any, but she knew that to her base voters there was a wrong answer. Right now, I think Adams, Franklin, and Hamilton are apostates, while Jefferson and Washington are gods among men.
It depends on whether you allow original intent to include the concern for county slave patrols that delegates certainly discussed at least in private or limit it to the formal authoritative record, which recorded the high-flying rhetoric used to sell the vote for ratification.
Madison was open about some of his misgivings and also those that he perceived others as having. A balance between order (for some?), justice (for some?), and freedom (for some?) in the midst of asserting general rights under the law.
No, the original intent was not preserve slave patrols. It makes a nifty, and politically correct, meme for our times. Oh, and show me where Madison supports your argument.
It is also historically and constitutionally wrong.
It doesn’t apply to the states by its own terms. It is a prohibition on the federal government in relation to the states. How can an amendment addressed specifically to the federal government be “applied” to the states?
Modern constitutional interpretation is that the 14th Amendment imposed the protections in the Bill of Rights on the states (“No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States…”) – which, overall, is a good thing.
That’s irrelevant. The Second Amendment is a guarantee that the federal government will not disarm the state militias.
How would you make an amendment designed to curb federal action against the states apply to the states?
What can I tell you – the Civil War and the 14th Amendment are viewed in some sense as a constitutional reset. Between the 14th Amendment’s Due Process and Privilege and Immunities Clauses, the long prevailing view is that citizens enjoy the rights in the Bill of Rights to the same degree against state governments as the federal government.
Just to clarify one point you made, the Supreme Court has not said that either the federal or state governments are without power to regulate guns – obviously many gun laws are still on the books. Heller announced that the Second Amendment codifies an individual right and not a collective one, and that gun laws are subject to either strict or intermediate judicial scrutiny (meaning that the law must serve an important government interest – such as promoting safety – and be no more restrictive than necessary to promote that interest). In other words, gun laws are still permissible, but they have to be drafted artfully (and likely backed by strong rationales as to why they are likely to be effective). Among other things, the law in Heller banned handguns in the home – the Supreme Court felt that at minimum, the Second Amendment provided for people to use firearms in self defense, and so the law was over broad.
Forgive me that I’m having a little trouble expressing this thought, but the cable news pundits have been even more aggravating than usual – trapped in the old stereotypes (or paradigms, or some word that I’m having trouble finding) about what a danger it is to advocate for any sort of gun control and yapping on about what is and isn’t possible. Maybe the current moment won’t last, maybe it will, but I really think these folks are wrong in dismissing it the way they are.
They are wrong it will last. They will do nothing in time to stop the next mass murder. There are too many guns out here in the real world that exists outside of the realm of alternate facts.
We live in a country that voluntary gun-owners intend to dominate through weapons if they don’t get their way.
What kind of government does one call that? A pyrovolocracy? kakourgocracy?
#BladensburgRaces
Never forget.
The white supremacy movement will be the end of ‘gun rights’.
As in end it, or the end result in power?
The gun fetishists a) don’t know and don’t care about the Constitutional history of the 2nd Amendment and that includes the disgraceful conservative SCOTUS majority and b) are really sublimating their fear of the “other” as a rationale for maintaining not just gun ownership but especially weapons of mass destruction like assault weapons.
When and if white supremacy is suppressed/eliminated, then rational gun control can be enabled but not before then so meanwhile mass slaughter will continue and the profits for the armaments industry will continue to roll in.
Meanwhile, the country will increasingly be turned into a kind of open air maximum prison with constant checks before entering any facility and other restrictive actions like trigger happy police. So much for the gun fetishists “freedom”.
The fear of “other” seems to get at the gist of that subset of our population. I’ve certainly “conversed” with a few of these folks thanks to the miracle of social media. Any time I’d make a work-related trip to Chicago, I’d get an earful of remarks about how I was going to get killed. Hint: rumors of my demise are greatly exaggerated. Apparently I need a full arsenal to be safe in my own relatively boring, uneventful smallish city, if I were to believe these folks. Facts and figures about how violent crimes, including gun-related violence, have decreased fairly consistently over the past three decades (data does occasionally come in handy) and is still at or near historical lows (mass shootings notwithstanding) have no impact on their thinking. They’ll tune that stuff out. Fear is one hell of a drug.
Chicago is a wonderful city. Gun violence is pretty much confined to areas you wouldn’t go anyway.
No wonder the property owners in Chicago’s Trump building want his name off of it.
Pretty much the case. At most, I pass by many of the neighborhoods in question while on the L between the airport and whatever hotel my reservations were made. Downtown Chicago has really changed since I made my first trip there. I do hope that the Trump name goes away. Ruins a perfectly good skyline.
That could depend on which El you take. Which, in turn, depends on which airport you fly into.
Probably true enough. I usually fly to Chicago O’Hare airport. The El is right within my budget, and as I travel from the airport to wherever I’ve been booked – and back again – there are some reminders that not far from where the touristy parts of Chicago are located, some areas that are hurting.
You write:
And here we have the real essence of the white, middle class, middle-aged, middle leftiness position that screams all over this blog.
A wonderful city for whom, jsrtheta? Go here (<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Chicago#/media/File:African_American_Population_by_Census_Tract_in_Chicago,IL(2011).svg>) and look at the demographic map of Chicago…Obama’s city, currently ruled by his political hitman, Rahm Emanuel. Roughly 3 million in population, with vast tracts of areas where you wouldn’t go. But somebody has to live there, right? It looks to be roughly half the area of the city. 1.5 million people, maybe? Or even more, given the overcrowding in ghetto housing. And those “somebodies”…black and brown, mostly…all over the U.S. read people like you like a book.
The Dems currently seem to think that they can run the table in the 2020 presidential election by appealing to the “minority vote.” Yeah, right. Look at how well that worked out in 2016. They think that they’ll prop up some Dem hustler of color like Cory Booker (not necessarily even at the top of the ticket) as their proof of sincerity and sail into the White House. They oughta think again. The “minority vote” saw though the Democratic Party during Obama’s stay in the White House, and they’re not coming back. Not in numbers large enough to win. Bet on it. They’ll stay home rather than get hustled again.
Home…you know…in those “areas where you wouldn’t go anyway.”
Disgusting.
This should be the Dem’s 2020 slogan. Hell, it might even win them enough Trump voters to win.
Get real.
AG
P.S. Don’t even bother zeroing this one out, neo-McCarthyites. I’m posting it as a standalone as soon as I’m finished writing it.
BIG GUN, SMALL HANDS
That’s the root of this evil. Gun freaks don’t really care about the second amendment.
Why so many American men are insecure about their, er, hands is a mystery.
This is not correct.
First, we had a standing army after the Constitution was ratified, and we’ve had one ever since. The Constitution may use some weasel words, but it intended a standing army, and that’s what we got. This goes some way toward explaining anti-Federalist resistance.
Second, the Constitution expressly provides that Congress, not the states, is responsible for arming the militia.
Third, the militia was never an effective military institution, and everyone knew that in Constitutional times. (Washington had no use for the militia at all after the Seven Years’ War.)
Fourth, even prior to the Constitution, the militia was pathetic. Men didn’t buy or maintain suitable firearms, and the states wouldn’t supply them. This is one reason the states, and the federal government under Jefferson, conducted gun censuses in order to determine who owned what guns, with an eye toward what firearms the state militias could appropriate in case of an emergency. This gives the lie to any claim that the Second Amendment forbids gun registration. It also demonstrates that firearms in private hands were considered held in trust for the state.
The Revolutionary militia bravely standing up for their states was and is a myth. People failed to show up for training, and those with money could pay for others to perform their service. Lip service aside, the militia was never, as a matter of fact, composed of the “body of the people.” The Continental Army, not the militia, won the Revolution.
The Second Amendment was an answer to anti-Federalist claims that Congress, by simply choosing to not arm the militias, could disarm them. Hence, the Second Amendment.
It is as obsolete now as the Third. And it has nothing to do with private gun ownership.
So it’s an anachronism, so are lots of old laws. But clearly it has evolved. You make the argument well, but I think it’s futile.
I don’t say that as a fatalist, I just don’t think it’s a viable approach. That it relates to well-regulated militias is actually an important point, because these gun nuts are not members of well-regulated militias, which means a lot of their claims have no constitutional support.
To me the really strange thing about the 2nd Amendment is that the NRA position on it is the product of myth and propaganda, not constitutional law.
All the gun nuts believe the Second Amendment gives absolute freedom WRT guns. And they’ve done such a great job with their propaganda that their opponents believe it too. But it doesn’t.
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/jurisprudence/2016/06/how_the_nra_perverted_the_mean
ing_of_the_2nd_amendment.html
http://thehill.com/opinion/civil-rights/359413-second-amendment-myths-everyone-should-stop-believing
. . . “guns”. The rightwing-gun-nut Gospel, carried to its logical conclusion, declares my individual right to own machine guns, nuclear devices, cruise missiles, any/all ammunition, clips, etc., limited only by my budget, since the Holy Writ of the 2ndA puts no definitional limit on “arms”. Cuz “shall not be infringed” is pretty darn crystal clear, dontchaknow. And recognizing/accepting any infringement of that Sacred, God-Given Right is such a slippery slope leading straight to Hitlery taking away all our guns, dontchaalsoknow.
Which is nonsense of course. Like all constitutionally recognized rights, this one’s not absolute either, as long recognized in jurisprudence . . . and even by the NRA. Whose response to the Las Vegas massacre was to allow as how revisiting the administrative decision declaring “bump stocks” legal would be ok with “them” (i.e., Wayne — may karma visit upon him the fate his advocacy has inflicted on so many innocent others). Which, being a departure from their standard total resistance to any further “infringement”, actually surprised me. For obvious (I think) reasons, they’d prefer that be undone administratively, not legislatively, but it’s an inarguable acknowledgment that the 2ndA right is indeed not absolute — as is their longstanding acceptance that fully automatic weapons can be (and legally are) banned.
As with all such rights, yours ends where mine (or the public’s — which is really just collective “mine”s) begins, and where they conflict, whose interest is the more “compelling” gets sorted out judicially, case-by-case. (Any lawyers in the house are welcome to critique the details, but I think I have the gist of that right.)