Businessman and Dallas Mavericks owner Mark Cuban says that there’s something wrong with President Trump’s head and that he’s thinking of challenging him in the 2020 presidential election. He also says that he’s more likely to make the plunge if the Republicans hold onto power in Congress after the upcoming midterm elections. From the sound of things, he envisions running as an independent rather than as a Democrat or a Republican, and he has the money to finance an independent or third-party campaign. If his candidacy becomes more than pure speculation, I’ll have a lot to say about his fitness for the job, but I’m not much interested in Cuban’s prospects at the moment. I’m more interested in the idea of removing Trump from power through a strong third-party challenge, regardless of who the vehicle for that challenge might be.
In this day and age, we have so much data that it should be relatively easy to figure out exactly which voters you need to get to deny Trump a second term and also which messages you’ll need to use to attract just the right segment of the electorate to peel off many more votes from Trump than from the Democrat.
Actually winning an independent challenge might be more possible than ever for the exact same reason, but that’s still a much tougher hill to climb. Armed with the right information, you could build a candidate who is ideally suited to make sure Trump cannot win a second term. Without access to that data, I can only speculate about how such a candidate should position themselves. They would want to be on the conservative side of most issues, but I think they’d get more bang for the buck peeling off moderate Republicans than going after former Democrats who drifted into the Republicans’ camp over the last few presidential election cycles. Trump lost a lot of moderate Republicans, but he still retained a shocking number of them who just couldn’t pull the lever for Hillary Clinton. Our hypothetical independent candidate would rather win over these voters than former Democrats who might drift back to the Democrats’ column with a different candidate to support.
Given how narrowly Trump won the election last time, any division on the right might be sufficient, so I can’t say that coming at Trump from the troglodyte right wouldn’t work. But those voters have shown the most loyalty to Trump so they seem like the least promising prospects.
Another factor is that it simply wouldn’t be good for the country to have two hard right candidates and one of the alternatives to Trump coming after him for insufficient conservatism. Running to the middle in a Republican primary field might be helpful from a health point of view, but it would probably be a hopeless cause. A challenge launched on competency, decency, honesty, and loyalty to country might be a better way to vie for the GOP nomination than one based on more middle of the road policies.
In any case, if I were to design this candidacy, it would leave the economic populism to the Democratic candidate and the independent would focus like a laser on getting the upscale suburban voters that have been running away from Trump but not yet into the arms of the Democrats. The only downside would be that this would be more likely to boost Republican turnout in the congressional races, but it would probably doom Trump to numbers so low in the places like the Philly suburbs that he’d have no prospect of reelection.
You really think that if there was such a hypothetical candidate, then Trump would not wrestle this person down?
If I think of the current scenario of the toxic right, I cannot think of a single potential candidate who could do this – come at Trump from the right and stay standing.
Yes there are some truly troglodyte politicians and chatterati (Matt Gaetz, Steve King, Louie Gohmert, Ted Nugent, Laura Ingraham, Sean Hannity – I am trying to name as many as I can, but this is not exhaustive) – but right now they operate against the decency of others, NOT against the rabidness of Trump.
IF that ever happened – someone truly able to beat Trump from the right – I will book a passage to Mars!
Is anyone paying attention to what is going on in Kentucky or Oklahoma this week? Back to the question at hand. I just don’t see how you’re going to have a successful third party candidate. Is Cuban going to be prepared to drop $1 billion dollars, at least, of his own money? Do you really think he’s going to convinced any Republicans to drop Trump? Why would they? The GOP has their tax cut and has Gorsuch on the Court to replace Scalia. That’s darn successful. Why would Democrats vote for Cuban over their own nominee? I’m just spitballin’ here but say the race is Sanders/Trump/Cuban. How do you think that would work out? I’d give Cuban a lot higher odds if the Democratic nominee was Cuomo or Hickenlooper. And what if Cuban won? He’d appoint Supreme Court judges more towards Gorsuch anyway. Meaning business friendly.
You know from my perspective, I just want Trump gone. If Cuban can do it, sign me up. Everyday Trump seems to do something else to harm us all. He is a hateful and ugly man. And he must go at all costs.
That’s just the point though. Trump will likely be helped by a 3rd party challenger, especially a fellow billionaire.
So if you don’t mind me asking, who do you have in mind for a democrat challenger?
Sanders. Elizabeth Warren. Barbara Lee. Keith Ellison. Jeff Merkley. That is not in order of preference. And given the current president, the celebrities I think would make it interesting on the Democratic side are Tom Morello and John Cusack.
The question is can they win the northwest territories plus Pennsylvania? Sanders may not be up to this challenge. The others you listed have some appeal but I am not at all sure they have what it takes. I’ve not seen Cuban in a political setting either so I will have to wait.
What other Democrats are there? Cuomo? He’s horrible. Hickenlooper? He’s even worse. Booker? Better than the previous two but too chummy with the billionaire class. Kamala Harris? Her record as AG is horrible, especially in such a blue state as California. She passed on prosecuting the present Treasury Secretary. Tim Kaine? LOL! Gillibrand? Not impressed but I’d vote for her before Kaine, Hick and Cuomo. Sherrod Brown? I read he had no interest in putting his family through the presidential campaign ringer. Will 2016 change his mind about running?
What about Amy Klobuchar? Surprised no one mentions her.
Well that’s my point. The democrats don’t really have anyone to light the fires that it may take to bring back the lost states. Cuban or someone like him can change that.
How will Cuban change that? Hell, his basketball team sucks these days so it’s not as if he could theoretically campaign with a basketball star or something. At least Trump insulted Jeb!, Rubio, McCain and C- Augustus. What is Cuban’s hook? He’s not going to tax billionaires like himself at confiscatory rates. He’s not going to jail our oligarchs, he’s one himself after all.
Cuban can try to out-clown Trump, which 1) won’t work and 2) we don’t want. He has absolutely nothing to recommend himself as a candidate for president.
I think if the gloves came off, any Republican anywhere, given permission, could attack Trump ferociously and draw blood, even fatally. It’s only been about a year and we’ve watched them firmly deny themselves the freedom to criticize anything he’s done (even with reporters goading them, etc.). It must be torture, since we know from Wolff’s book that they’re all experiencing the Tillerson “fucking moron” frustration over and over again.
The interesting question is how this would play out for the voters. The Trump base might not accept any of it…but who knows. He’s rattled by Ann Coulter; that could be the tip of the iceberg. And the greatest weapon Trump had in 2016 — the lack of a record — will be gone.
It must be torture, since we know from Wolff’s book that they’re all experiencing the Tillerson “fucking moron” frustration over and over again.
The whole GOP caucus, Representatives and Senators, are fucking morons. About the only one who isn’t is Yertle the Turtle because he at least has a plan and sticks to it. Do Rubio or Cruz really know policy? Please!!
Also local and state races. I think this greatly outweighs whatever problematical help of maybe hurting Trump’s reelection prospects, maybe.
Trump appears to be coming unglued mentally, based on his recent behavior, including the latest tweetstorms. The stock markets were down nearly 2% today, and historically the markets have correlated with how the public feels about the President. I think the chances of this nutter being reelected are remote, I would prefer not to do anything to stimulate Republican voter turnout.
I agree. If we take the House and/or Senate, we limit much of the damage, even if he’s re-elected, but if we DON’T win back at least one of those, then the downside of his re-election is MUCH worse (think MULTIPLE more SCOTUS appts by then).
I agree the congressional races are a key. Lose there and the danger for heavens knows what increases greatly. There is no saying what this mad man will do. Winning in 2020 becomes super critical.
No matter how bad a situation is, it can always be made worse.
For better of for worse, we have first-past-the-post elections; transitioning to any other model would require an effort of public education of a kind and magnitude that is infeasible on its face.
If an FPTP election is to make any claim to represent “the will of the people”, then there must be exactly two candidates on the ballot.
Conversely, if you want to be able to have more than two candidates on the ballot, then you must use something other than FPTP.
Tactical voting in FPTP inherently obscures the legitimacy of the result and often leads to perverse results not intended by those who attempted to vote tactically.
Think more carefully before recommending these things.
I’m not sure I follow. There are always rando third-parties on the presidential ballot (Greens, Libertarians, others). Trump is president because of the EC and not popular vote – the Republicans make no real pretense that his election represents the “will of the people” – their argument is that he’s president because the rules say he is.
I agree that third-party runs can have unintended consequences (I’ll never forgive Nader), but the name of the game is winning the presidency. For better or worse, this country doesn’t care enough about the “will of the people” to make any changes to the current system.
There were successful third party candidates in 2016, they denied Clinton the victory as they wanted.
The country doesn’t need a third party, it needs a politically competent Democratic Party (no Republican appointments) and a journalism community that understands their mission.
What are the odds?
There have always been third party (and fourth and fifth) candidates on the ballot. We never think about them except during a close election. The only election in my long lifetime where it really mattered was Perot. Otherwise they are ready made scapegoats for under performing major candidates.
And are you convinced we have a competent democratic party and a media that really gives a shit? I don’t see anyone clamoring to take the top spot. The democrats seem to have lost it. Period.
I agree.
All Big D is offering is the thin gruel of Russia! Russia! Russia!
Hey maybe there’s a “there” there vis Russia. So ok, investigate away.
However, what about NOW? All I see are Big D voting for Tax Cuts, completely ignoring all the hits to the Environment, voting for repealing, in part, the already weak-tea Dodd-Frank, twiddling their thumbs vis Trump’s clear use of the office of POTUS for personal gain via emoluments, etc.
Don’t whine at me about how intransigent the GOP is, so they simply cannot DO anything. B.S. Stand up on your hind legs and at least bray about this stuff.
Nada nada enchilada.
Big D’s Oligarchs are totally SATISFIED with their bought off minions in CONgress. Doing just what they’re paid for. Screw the 99%. Enrich the 1%.
Twas ever thus.
Awaken me when real change occurs. Not holding my breath…
If you mean any right of center challenger to Trump should just forget about the GOP primary because it is just going to be the base deciding who is the most rabid of dogs, then I agree with you. By then, if he is still President, Trump will most likely be mentally crippled (I know, he isn’t now?) but still no one will out-Trump the man himself in the down in the mud, authoritarianism and ad hominem slander of any and all opponents. Let Trump be renominated unopposed; it will do nothing for the GOP brand.
So an Independent run makes much more sense. I see someone like Evan McMullin being the ideal independent Republican of the type you are describing. As for it also benefitting the Republicans in Congress, I am much less sure. The GOP seems to me to be a dying party. As it is, the party mainly depends upon voter suppression, gerrymandering and an enormous and wealthy media arm to keep itself going.
So an Independent run makes much more sense. I see someone like Evan McMullin being the ideal independent Republican of the type you are describing.
Why? The media gave McMuffin plenty of publicity in ’16. He didn’t make the ballot in California. One thing CA does do is count write-ins. Guess who kicked McMuffin’s ass as a write-in candidate in CA for the 2016 general election? Sanders!! See:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election_in_California,_2016
yeah, a real independent challenger needs to be like Ross Perot, willing to spend lots and lots of money without any expectation of doing anything but denying the Republican a second term.
If all we want is to knock out Trump then why do we want a third party candidate. Make him the dem candidate and set him loose.
Because some Republicans would hold their nose and vote for Trump rather than a Democrat. Give them the choice of Trump and a “normal” Republican, and they might vote for the latter.
Why? What is a “normal” Republican exactly? Name me one GOP politician, besides Yertle the Turtle, that isn’t a complete moron. All GOPers care about is tax cuts for the rich and “owning the libs.”
I still don’t get how he’ll pull it off though. Remember, for all the bullshit being thrown around Gary Johnson got three times the votes Jill Stein did and I never hear anyone mention him. How many times has he been on The Daily Show and such? There is no moderate Republican going to run 3rd party.
Jill Stein makes a convenient scapegoat, which is why we hear about her not Johnson. She got very few votes in my county, but Trump drew occasional voters out of the wood work. I was surprised Johnson didn’t do better among Republicans who were repulsed by Trump and wouldn’t vote for Clinton.
Because actual voters weren’t repulsed by Trump. Not in large enough numbers anyway. #NeverTrump is only a thing amongst pundits in the Beltway. David Frum and Ana Navarro don’t hold any kind of power in the GOP. As some of us say over and over, the #NeverTrump crew just wish Trump would use a dog whistle instead of an air horn.
McMullin doesn’t appear to have the ambition or fundraising heft to mount a serious run, though. It would have to be someone very wealthy and/or of national prominence. A Bloomberg type (or Bloomberg himself).
Trump’s popularity with voters has only INCREASED recently, despite everything he’s done, tweeted, or whomever he’s screwed around with while married.
His base – and that base includes a high percentage of well-educated country club types with good jobs living in wealthy neighborhoods; iow, not just the duck dynasty types (but includes them as well) – LOVE LOVE LOVE Trump to the Nth degree. I see very expensive vehicles in Southern CA with bumper stickers reading: “At Last! Someone with balls is in charge!” with a logo that is clearly a portrait of Trump.
I don’t see Mark Cuban persuading most of Trump’s base – which is not insignificant at all – to switch over. Let me repeat that with each wierd insane tweet, Trump voters LOVE him all the more.
I see Trump fans on reputable blogs (not the rightwing swamp blogs, which I’ve never visited) bend themselves into pretzels defending this troglodyte and ‘splaining why he’s So. GREAT. and his “policies” are A-MAZING and how THRILLED they are with him.
And, per usual, they hypocritically hand wave away all the shite they went on about w/ Obama, such as how personally painful it was for them that Obama Played. Too. Much. Golf!!!!!!1111! on their tax dollar$. Trump? “Oh that doesn’t matter that he plays so much golf because …. (fill in the blank with some utterly ridiculous nonsense)”
Emolluments? Who Cares??? Trump is faaabulous and he’s getting us of Syria. If Clinton had won, we’d be in WWIII TODAY. – this was typed to me yesterday at Naked Capitalism.
Ergo, I don’t see any challenger from the right for Trump, AND I don’t see Trump’s rabid White Supremacist Nazi base losing faith in their Dear Leader. They LOVE this shithole, and they’ll stick to him like glue.
Mark my words.