I don’t agree with David French about much but I didn’t find anything to disagree about in his latest column which asks if it is possible for Trump to be at least as tough on Saudi Arabia as he’s been on Canada. It’s rare that writers at the National Review express opinions on foreign policy that are shared by a lot of people on the left, but here we have an example:
At a minimum, we can and should stop facilitating the Saudi bombing campaign in Yemen, a campaign that depends on American weapons and American help and is murderously indiscriminate.
In this day and age, I’m inclined to latch onto any bipartisan agreement I can find, and I also agree with this:
Republicans and Democrats alike have looked the other way as the Saudis exported radical Islamic theologies, funded jihadists, and oppressed their own citizens. We’ve consistently treated the Saudi government as if we need them more than they need us.
Of course, our relationship with the Saudi regime was forged in the immediate aftermath of World War Two, and the Eastern Front of that conflict, at least, largely followed a logic that is impossible to understand outside of the context of energy resources. Hitler made a race for the Caucasus rather than concentrating all his troops for a crushing blow against Moscow because he needed the fuel, and it’s the same reason that was so interested in taking over and holding Romania. Tanks and planes require vast amounts of fuel and an alliance with Saudi Arabia (and, initially, Iran) gave us a chance to not worry about that factor in any confrontation in Europe with the Soviets.
At the time, the culture, politics, and welfare of the people of the Arabian Peninsula were far down the list of American national security concerns, and we were primarily interested in applying the lessons we’d learned from the war so that we’d be better positioned in any future conflict. In retrospect, we might have made some different choices, but it’s doubtful we would have risked having that oil and gas fall into the hands of the Soviets who enjoyed enough of those resources as it was.
With so much money available, we naturally saw some of our purer motives become corrupted over time, and there’s not much to be proud about when we look back at our relationship with the House of Saud. Particularly after 1979, the relationship has curdled badly and we already had the experience of blowback in 2001, when we were attacked on our own soil by Saudi terrorists.
I’m probably more forgiving of our Saudi policy than many on the left, mainly because I recognize the legitimate reasons for why it began and that nothing is easy in the region. There are never easy pat solutions to the problems we encounter there, and when we pull back it invites different problems that are sometimes just as severe and devastating as when we move in.
We’re making progress on being less dependent on the regions’ energy, but that hasn’t solved as much as we might have hoped. Syria’s refugee crisis has already transformed the politics of Europe and the United States, leading to a resurgence of the type of fascist ideas that we fought to defeat in the 1940s.
What’s most depressing in our current situation is that the president is now running interference for a Saudi Crown Prince who has been caught red-handed murdering an American resident and having him chopped into pieces. That’s probably a new low. America is actually free to criticize the Crown Prince and to punish him, but apparently President Trump doesn’t feel that way.
This mess obviously needs to be dealt with with some delicacy and deftness, but we should not have our president helping the Saudis make up some story about how rogue and unauthorized elements are responsible for this murder.
And, as David French said, as a minimum we should respond by cutting off all assistance for the indiscriminate bombing in Yemen.
Never going to happen, and it has nothing to do with geopolitics.
The reason Trump went to Saudi Arabia for his first visit, and not Mexico or Canada like is traditional, is because THE SAUDIS ARE PAYING HIM. When he says `they are paying us lots of money’ he does not mean any arms deals…he means `THEY ARE PAYING ME, AND I DONT WANT THAT TO END’. When the Saudi prince says he has Kushner `in his pocket’, he means `in my pocket, with my money’.
It’s always money. ALWAYS.
.
A good first start, but let’s go a step farher and say that the USA should not be deciding what government ANY other country has. If nation A invades nation B and the UN GA agrees, THEN we can intervene – to stop the war and restore borders. That’s what the UN was supposed to be for – to stop wars.
And then when a dictator orders massacres against people and this violence spills across borders? Do we just watch it engulf the region? This wasn’t about the US deciding what governments other countries have, it was counter-revolutionary forces deciding that it’s better to remain kings over graveyards and ashes than relinquish power and being indifferent to it. Ben Rhodes book documents this.
The government of Yemen — an illegitimate government — has “invited” Saudi Arabia to help them. Is the goal to “end the war”, or is it to wash our hands of it?
There aren’t going to be any enforceable borders in this region in two decades time give or take as climate pressures push people to migrate. Assuming it’s even habitable at all.
The U.S. cannot feed, clothe, shelter and sufficiently educate some relatively large percentage of it own population…citizens andnon-citizens. It resorts to imprisoning vast numbers of its inhabitantsthat rise up against this failure. No matter how uninformed/misinformed those who are thus imprisoned might have been, if they had been given a fighting chance to survive in t U.S. society on at least a working-class level, do you really think that most or all of them would have resorted to whatever “crimes” it took for them to try to get the fuck out from under the boot of the controllers’ insatiable appetite for cheap labor?
I don’t, and I have lived and worked amongst them for going on 50 years.
Physician…heal thyself.
And…
First, do no harm.
Wisdom of the ages.
You also write:
And at whose feet…including the “climate pressures”…do you lay this lamentable state of affairs?
Me?
I personally lay it squarely at the feet of the soon-to-be NATO powers in the very first blood-for-oil “wars”….the early 20th century military hustle in North Africa/the Middle East so well chronicled by that early erstwhile spook, T. E. Lawrence. (aka Lawrence of Arabia)
You?
ASG
Oh look the “America First!” sympathizer has logged on.
Agreed. Yet your prescriptions have caused much harm given that if you watch a fire destroy a house it’ll eventually spread to the rest of the neighborhood. If our policy was to first do no harm, it wouldn’t have allowed Sisi to topple the Muslim Brotherhood government in Egypt and stood by all the revolutionaries.
Arthur stands with despots against the people.
>> if you watch a fire destroy a house it’ll eventually spread to the rest of the neighborhood
is that the good old “domino” theory back again?
I stand against America imposing regime change on other countries that don’t threaten US vital interests or allies. That’s not “standing with despots” and it’s not isolationism.
No, the domino theory is bullshit. Allowing despots to murder hundreds of thousands and cause millions of refugees is altogether separate.
What defines “imposing” regime change? Arguably, we did impose regime change — we propped up the dictators. Since when is it imposing regime change when the very people rose up against their government?
Also, look the fuck around at the fascist fires that have spread as a result. I’d very much call that part of our interests. Why do you think I’m singing a different tune than I was in real time a few years back? Because the evidence should be pretty clear that the steps we took had the opposite effect that Obama intended — one I agreed with in real time, because I didn’t want MORE people to die — has brought us to this point.
Noam Chomsky says US should stay in Syria to protect the Kurds
Chomsky understands when it’s the Kurds. Just extend that logic to the rest of Syria.
What do you want to do in Syria? Do you want to oppose Assad and Russia?
so you want to see the US military defend this area against all its neighbors forever?
what’s your position on whether we can afford universal health care?
So what do you say? “America Last”?
Fool!!!
I cannot begin to tell you how sick I am of all of you neocentrist DemRats trying to excuse the utter cowardice and stupidity of the Democratic Party over the past 50 years.
The U.S. has overextended itself and its human and economic resources so badly over the post-WW II years that it now cannot even protect itself from its own inner demons like Trumpism!!
WTFU!!!
And while I’m at it…get a life!!!
Sincerely…
AG
Arthur goes out of his way to criticize NATO in response to this post, a post which is focused on current U.S. actions in the region.
Arthur offers no criticism of President Trump, his Administration, or the Republicans who fully control the Federal government.
He continues to frequently offer to this community bad faith criticisms of the Democratic Party and its leaders in his continual attempts to drive wedges in this community and our Movement.
Let’s point and laugh at Arthur, who is fully on the Trump Train and has a number of extremely regressive policy preferences which he has defended over and over again here.
Continue proving the Republicans correct in calling the Democrats “the War Party”.
The donald only builds bridges or blows them up. He lacks the simple ability to tell the prince what a mess he has made. Betcha every foreign embassy in SA called the prince and at the least asked for an explanation. No one with that kind of authority is in our embassy. But, we will get that photo of our SOS smiling with the prince. So much BS.
Typo alert — Caucuses ought to be Caucasus.
The need to be independent from the Saudis was obvious in 19-fucking-73!
Our elites are actually not…
elite |əˈlēt, āˈlēt|
noun
1 a select part of a group that is superior to the rest in terms of ability or qualities
…unless those qualities are greed and lust for power.
. . . that “assistance for the indiscriminate bombing in Yemen” nets us (or, to be more precise, the Military Industrial Complex — Thanks, Ike!) $110B/year! According to the Pussy-Grabber-in-Chief, anyway.
Sure and it makes murder okeydokey.
If it takes the death of a fixture at DC cocktail parties – rather than, say, a genocidal famine – to end our support for the Saudi atrocities in Yemen, I guess that what it takes.
Remember the end of “Under Fire”…
“We should have killed an American journalist a long time ago.”
First we have to be honest about what REALLY happened in the Middle East over the last 70 years and why.
Since this is not a book, I can only give examples: the US inspired coup that toppled government of Mossadegh of Iran in 1953 and installed the Shah. This lead directly to the Iranian Revolution, right up to the present hostility between the US and Iran.
Normally, if US client states conduct genocidal warfare against their neighbors or their own populations we sell them arms – as we do with the Saudi proxy war against Iran in Yemen. The Israeli invasions of Lebanon in 1982 and the occupation of the West Bank, the “tilt” towards Iraq in the Iran-Iraq War, the First Gulf War, are only a scattering of examples from a long, long list.
Our client states are only disciplined when their actions tend to disrupt OUR interests. Otherwise it’s normally not newsworthy.
The argument of the mainstream Foreign Policy experts against Trump is that he’s so stupid that he doesn’t understand all this and just acts according to his own ignorance and greed without regard for the fragile structure of power relationships we’ve established since WWII.
Thus, Trump’s corruption has him siding unilaterally with Saudi Arabia when they conduct a genocidal war in Yemen slaughtering civilians and creating a refuge crisis, or torture a critic to death in their own embassy. The establishment is aghast because he’s violating all the rules! He’s essentially undermining US control over the entire Middle East and fomenting war and massive problems — for US.
Since this Middle East power structure we created was always inherently unstable, this kind of idiocy is terribly dangerous. But, let’s not kid ourselves that a real concern over human rights plays any significant role in US foreign policy for the last half century.
ou write:
Right on point.
Wouldn’t it be wonderful if some presidential candidate with a rational chance of actually winning would stand up in public and say this?
Can you imagine that happening at a Democratic Party convention?
They’d have to take that candidate outside the building into the sequestered “Protestors’ Area!!!”
Nice.
Thank you, Cugel.
Maybe you ought to write a book.
Later…
AG
American “delicacy and deftness” are in somewhat short supply these days, ha-ha. Nor are they going to be arriving anytime soon, and certainly not in a time-frame relevant to a shooting war.
Der Trumper openly stated (in a quite jovial fashion) while running for prez that he was financially beholden to the Saudis—they “buy his $40 million apartments”, according to him. And the incompetent boneheaded white electorate LOVED it. As an unqualified fool, luxury apartment sales is what motivates Trumper. Since this is the brainless level he operates on, he’ll never see any reason to hinder KSA operations, nor will the various inexperienced Trumpite courtiers advocate for anything other than fawning collaboration with the Saudi princes.
The entire region is falling apart, at enormous human cost and suffering. The people are the hapless pawns and playthings of the various Muslim elites on both sides of the great doctrinal divide, all happily playing the Great Game from the comfort of their capitols. But if the world’s hand-wringing leaders and diplomats and think-tankers imagine that Der Trumper’s Idiot America is somehow going to offer any kind of constructive engagement at this point, then they can’t add 2+2.
Indeed, we are likely just entering the Trumparian Warmongering stage–indeed, Mattis is now being described by Der Trumper as a Dem. There’s no greater pejorative, ha-ha. So who’s gonna take his seat in Crackpot Cabinet after the midterms? Sen Cottonhead? Or perhaps the great infighter himself, von Bolton? Whoever it is, it ain’t gonna be a help for the region, that’s a certainty.