On Booman’s recent post “When Trump First Said We Should Leave Syria” (http://www.boomantribune.com/story/2018/12/20/11354/803) AkamaiGuy posted a reply to a somewhat disparaging comment that I made regarding the entire thread.
Here it is:
I don’t disagree with you as far as the permanent state of the blood for oil war.
I don’t even (completely) disagree with you that that “it’s not about Russia.”
However for you to continue to hedge about the Russians CLEAR ratfucking of our election by saying “no matter what they MAY have tried to do” (emphasis mine) is truly, willfully, stupendously ignorant and incorrect and makes it much harder to judge your analysis in a favorable light (despite your obvious skill with words).
I started an answer. It grew. Read on.
AkamaiGuy:
I do not trust the investigators, nor do I trust the media information system. It’s as simple as that. Nor for that matter…if it eventually goes that far, which I doubt…do I trust the courts or the entire legal system, especially a Congress that is basically “elected” by Corporate/Deep State bought-and-sold media.
That goes not only for Russian attempts to influence elections (And of course the dark side of that particular moon, at least in this culture…how the U.S. and its own allies have tried to disrupt Russian elections and governmental operations. Not a word from the mass media on those operations. Not a word.), but also for the endless string of lies (and liars) that has erupted out of the assassination years.
I say above “…no matter what they may have tried to do.”
I will also say:
“…no matter what we have been told about what Lee Harvey Oswald may or may not have done.”
“No matter what we have been told about what may or may not have happened in the MLK Jr., RFK and Malcom X murders…”
“No matter what we have been told about what may or may not have happened regarding the Vietnam War…”
“No matter what we have been told about what may or may not have happened regarding 9/11…”
And on and on and on and on, right up to our current and tomorrow’s headlines and governmental/government media complex statements.
We are told to willingly “suspend our disbelief” when we consume a great piece of fiction…books, movies, TV programs etc. It’s the only way to really enter, enjoy and perhaps learn from alternate realities.
Well…against massive evidence to the contrary, we are constantly tacitly encouraged to suspend our disbelief when we consume “the news.” I say “tacitly” because we are fully miseducated from childhood to believe that “the news” is not fiction. Please read Manufacturing Consent…just for starters…on that idea. (Look it up on Wikipedia please…the Succuri security system on this blog gets fussy with some links.)
On the evidence of a lifetime of careful consideration, I refuse to suspend my own disbelief while consuming the news. In point of fact, I now quite consciously suspend my belief in what I am told by the government and its captive media until I have been damned well convinced that a particular “truth” is actually true.
From the mouths of babes, idiots, villains and other venal hustlers often come startlingly “true” statements.
Like this one from Donald Rumsfeld:
Reports that say that something hasn’t happened are always interesting to me, because as we know, there are known knowns; there are things we know we know.
We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know.
But there are also unknown unknowns–the ones we don’t know we don’t know. And if one looks throughout the history of our country and other free countries, it is the latter category that tend to be the difficult ones.[1]
Regarding that third paragraph…please research further on the concept of anosognosia. (Again…look it up on Wikipedia. Sucurri sucks sometimes.)
Anosognosia is a deficit of self-awareness, a condition in which a person with some disability seems unaware of its existence.
Rumsfeld’s last sentence brings the idea from a medical diagnosis into a good description of the mass illnesses caused by manufactured consent.
And this more recent one from the execrable Rudy Giuliani:
Truth isn’t truth.
HMMMmmmm…!!!
He is certainly in a position to know this. He’s a prime vendor.
We should be aware of it, too…every time we look at the mass media “news,” no matter from which edge of the corporate-owned closed media circle it appears.
Later…
AG
P.S. The jury is still out.
The real jury.
The “Truth” jury.
On the Gandhian level. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Story_of_My_Experiments_with_Truth)
Bet on it.
I am.
So which data source(s) WILL you eventually believe on the Russia election story, because it sounds like you will always push the goal posts further and further away. You have talked in th past about scanning media sources on the right (e.g., Drudge) and left to give you the ability to sense what is “the truth” but you can’t take an arithmetic mean of the news. Reality doesn’t work like that. All you end up doing is saying that your personal intuition will reveal the truth (but it’s really just what makes YOU feel safe emotionally because it allows YOU to make the call, essentially for everyone else as well. ).
How is what you are doing different from moon landing conspiracy theorists?
How is what I am doing “different from moon landing conspiracy theorists?”
I know and admit what I do not know…cannot know under current Deep State-controlled circumstances…and I refuse to make believe that I know.
That’s how.
The direct opposite of anosognosia.
I have a long and deep history in this culture…been almost everywhere, seen almost everything.
I fly by the seat of my pants.
This doesn’t necessarily make me popular, but I have yet to crash.
Bet on it.
When the current “popular wisdom”…read “mass media propaganda”…was busily preaching the inevitability of a Trump loss both in the primaries and the election, the seat of my pants (mostly from driving through deep Trump country) told me otherwise. I tried to tell people here, but they were too busy being trance media-hypnotized.
I really do not know if the moon landings occurred or did not occur, nor do I much care. It makes very little sense for the U.S. to try to put one like that over on the whole world, but…what the fuck, how much “sense” did say the Vietnam War or or the “Shock and Awe” run-up to the invasion of Iraq make?
So I hold my peace, at least until the seat of my pants speaks up.
Right now it’s saying…on the basis of 50+ years of observing the government media complex…that whenever said media goes all in on a story for months and months if not years, something is rotten in Denmark.
So I am…once again…pointing this out.
Take it or leave it.
No skin off my teeth.
Or the seat of my pants.
Later…
AG
If you HAD to bet whether Russia interfered in the 2018 election, how would you bet?
Edit: 2016 election
I would bet only on the following info:
Result?
No bet.
Sorry…
AG
OK, so you at least admit they did try to interfere. Thank you.
Oh, absolutely!!! The spook brigades of every major power are waging info war on their enemies. And their friends, too I must assume….just in case…
Truly, info war is now the only safe way to wage war, at least amongst the nuclear powers.
Total PostTruth or nuclear destruction…our most recent Scylla/Charybdis choices.
Meanwhile, as we sit spy-diddling with our rivals, fossil fuel-driven climate change world burns to a crisp.
Or drowns it, if you live near the sea.
A nice set of choices, eh?
AG
Correction above.
Should be:
“…fossil fuel-driven climate change burns the world to a crisp.”
AG
Thinking about this … I have become less interested in whether Russians tried to poke our election (altho it is useful to measure this), than the effect on & background of Mr Trump.
Mr Trump smells like a Russian asset thru and thru. And maybe not just Russian – who else has a handle on him or his mob crew? They might be up to their eyeballs in various kinds of compromise, blackmail, and old-fashioned debt to outside agencies. And he also smells a lot like an American mobster – like the Dapper Don. If any of that is true it’s no wonder the intelligence services don’t like him. I can share their dislike without forgetting who those intelligence services are and how they have worked.
The Russians don’t seem that competent. Their spy service seems amateurish compared to what they seemed to be capable of 50 years ago. Ham handed, clumsy, nothing hidden. Their government, the oligarchs, and their own mafia – how do you pick them apart? That doesn’t add up to a recipe for competence. Good hackers, tho, but there are plenty of them in the world. China seems more formidable, but they’re not playing the same game. Or at least not as amateurishly.
Just a thought.
Nasruddin…
Yes.
Precisely.
Eventually…always on the down side of the hill…kleptocracy seems to win over every other form of government.
Perfectly stated..
Putin and Trump.
Natural allies.
Only…there’s one big difference.
Putin started out in the streets. He is a street-reared gang boss…the nasty streets of postwar East Germany…but Trump has no real experience with street-level violence. He’s a wannabe gangster. Real gangsters have been using him for decades.
And laughing about him in their social clubs.
Bet on it.
So who’s the real boss in this relationship? Even if Trump is too ego-driven stupid to understand it?
Putin.
When it comes time to say “You’re FIRED!!!” it’ll be Putin…one way or another, probably well hidden…doing the firing. He has the goods on Trump, and he’ll use them at his own convenience.
That’s the way it works.
Watch.
AG
. . . “It isn’t”!
. . .
Posted with no slightest hint of self-awareness wrt the irony of that coming from you!
I mean, it’s really just perfect.
AkameiGuy, there is nothing CLEAR about it or Mueller would present it.
It’s CLEAR only in the partisan minds that are astonished that the most hated woman in politics was rejected by the voters in most states.
Now you want to risk global nuclear war just because SHE wasn’t coronated and can’t be the blue female Trump.
. . . fact penetrate your insane, irrational, heat-of-a-thousand-suns hatred of Clinton.
The pathetic hilarity (or is it hilarious pathetitude?) of your (almost certainly wrong) presumption that Mueller won’t “present it” is all bonus. But then, he doesn’t really need to (see link above!) for sane people to reach a rational conclusion about the Russian ratfucking.
That newly discovered undersea worm that they named after Trump cuz it spends extensive time with its head buried in the mud on the bottom? You wuz robbed!
So, your assumption is that since Mueller HASN’T yet made all the indictments and presented all the evidence, that he WON’T be doing that.
That is legally and common sense-wise, dumb as rocks.
Cases, like Rome, aren’t built in a day, and the ones (Russia or otherwise), the OSC are building take time and careful research and corroboration.
How will you change the goalposts once the evidence IS fully presented?
Y’gotta see the evidence, first.
Then y’gotta decide how much of it is believable….along with the rest of the huge audience.
Then?
Then the majority will rule.
The “majority” as decided by majority of the corporate-controlled media.
And it will…probably…end up being pre-Trump business as usual.
The UniParty/Duopoly DC swamp.
Oh well.
Sigh…
Better that than Trumpismo, I guess…
AG
. . . Syndrome requires it.