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Let’s hope that Kaine wins but pray he is the last anti-abortion Dem elected into office. We can no longer afford selling out the Democratic base and 50% of the American population… purist????… you bet your ass…when it comes to the bonehead faith-based bullshit Kaine is touting… has he never read an Abstinence Only issue paper… irresponsible and irreprehensible…
Base Envy: You get elected with the base that you have not the one you hope to have.
Wow, Parker. Do you really think that we should vote for a conservative Democrat who is against privacy in personal medical decisions?
I do, but every time I mention the realities of candidates and the local population in my state (MS), I get castigated by a few on this site who claim that voting for a conservative Democrat is totally selling out. I say that if the alternative is a total Thug, we should vote for a conservative Democrat and try to restore the Dem party to a controlling majority. The Agenda must be taken out of the hands of thugs. They are totally ruining our country.
Some Dems may be thugs-light, but I do not believe that their faction will control the whole Democratic Party Agenda. I don’t have to like voting for a conservative Dem, and I won’t support them in the primaries if I have any alternative, and I won’t quit pressuring them to become more liberal, but I will support removing control of the Agenda from the hands of thugs.
That dog don’t bite anymore….
The only thing we are doing is electing Republicans…point blank… it is a lose/lose proposition and as the head blog cheerleader of this bullshit just found out for himself… Dems lie too ….there is no next time or later once the ink dries it is a done deal.
IT IS A COMPLETE LIE THAT THESE ANTI-ABORTION DEMS WILL UPHOLD WOMENS REPRODUCTIVE RIGHTS. IT IS A LIE TOLD TO GET THEM INTO OFFICE AND ONCE IN THEY TURN THEIR BACKS ON THOSE WHO BROUGHT THEM TO THE PARTY.
The problem with Kaine is that the best candidates for president are governors. The Democratic Leadership seems to be “lining up” anti-abortion governors…
I’ll never understand why you refuse to take a nuanced position. I understand and agree with the principles you are upholding, but…
Arlen Specter, Gail Collins, and Olympia Snowe do nothing to protect a women’s right to choose, and they do plenty to undermine it. Why do you assume the reverse would not also be true?
That’s all I’m asking.
This issus is more complicated than just assuming Dems mean what they say but Republicans do not. Neither of them mean what they say.
“nuanced positions”… will see women lying dead in backalley’s…
What part of overturning Roe and more abortion restriction… will kill women… don’t you understand?… There is absolutely NOTHING nuanced about death.
that’s a non-response.
There is nothing “nuanced” about Democrats voting for this shit…… why are you spreading this lie that anti-abortion Democrats are “nuanced”…they certainly are not and they make sure that they team up with their GOP wingnut cousins to pass legislations regarding a woman’s body.
you still won’t respond.
Do you see Arlen Specter, Gail Collins, and Olympia Snowe names on this list?
“Let’s hope that Kaine wins…”
You are now on record as having contradicted yourself. How can you expect anyone to have a logical discussion with you when you are not logical?
I understand your point of view, I’m even willing to discuss the relative merits and drawbacks of your point of view with you right here in public. You might even convince me if you try, as I’m presently very close to adopting your position. However, I can not be convinced by illogical inconsistency. You embrace the possibility of a Kaine win, then you spew at me for adopting your viewpoint. Are you willing to “hope that Kaine wins” in that state, but unwilling to root for a conservative Democrat to defeat Trent Lott in my state?
Just to be perfectly clear about it, I am unabashedly and unreservedly for keeping the government completely and totally out of women’s wombs – no time restrictions, no notifications, no age restrictions, no nothing – just a woman and her doctor. I agree that it is totally reprehensible that women’s rights are currently being violated in this country and I wish to do all that I can to reverse and remove any restrictions whatsoever. We just disagree on possible ways to reach that goal.
If I lived in a state where there was a real chance for a very liberal Dem to get elected, and the national party ran a conservative Dem instead, I’d be royally pissed at the party. But where I live, barring at least a $100 million campaign and a successful Democratic Rove-type mud-inventing machine, the sheeple will not elect a totally liberal Democratic candidate.
This is not a contradiction:
Let’s hope that Kaine wins but pray he is the last anti-abortion Dem elected into office.… is the full quote.
this is
I am unabashedly and unreservedly for keeping the government completely and totally out of women’s wombs – no time restrictions, no notifications, no age restrictions, no nothing – just a woman and her doctor.… but you are more than happy to enslave women to elect a Republican Democrat who won’t give a shit about the Democratic Party or its base…
It is a contradiction in the exact instance of wishing for Kaine to win, regardless of whether or not you intend to be inconsistent in the future or not. The main focus of your sentence is that you hope Kaine will win, which you then modify with praying that he will be the last.
It is not inconsistent to want to put pressure on a bleeding artery before getting the patient to surgery. It is a logical step toward saving the patient.
No I pray that he is the last of this kind.
At the beginning of your sentence you hope that he wins. Then you modify that by stating that you pray he is the last. I understood you very clearly. You do not understand yourself.
You violated your own position, then prayed that you wouldn’t have to do it again. That is not a consistent position any way you cut it.
I modified NOTHING…
The idiot is there now and there is nothing that can be done… so I hope we wins… however… in the future… I am giving notice now… I don’t care if the Dem is running against the Devil himself … I will not support an anti-abortion Dem…. purist… you betcha… if you want to watch women die that will be on your conscientous…not mine… this has gotten to the point of complete irresponsiblity.
The GOP runs that Devil as a candidate and the Dems buckle and run the GOP candidate in defence
Your willingness to vote for the Devil is unimpressive, and shows that you are willing to violate all of humanity itself to achieve your one objective. You would apparently vote for a pedophilic, war-mongering, traitor if he/she were to agree with your one position.
Why are you lying?
Why do people have to make up shit when they lose a debate… you know damn well I didn’t say I would vote for the Devil… it was clear that I said I didn’t care if the Dem was running against the devil…I still would not support and anti-abortion Dem
Oh, sorry ’bout that. I guess you would just stay home and be silent while the Devil wins. That’s hardly an improvement.
This ploy has been used by the GOP and the DLC to move the party to the right… it is time for Dems to wake up and smell the coffee… either way the GOP wins and the Democrats lose… fucking Salazar calls him self and “independent” instead of a Democrat even though he still has a “d” behind his name and he happily accepted Democratic fund for his campaign… he is a complete waste of space and supports the GOP platform 9 times out of 10 over the Dems…
“This ploy has been used…”
Fine, I agree with you. However, in the case of most districts in my state, it is not a ploy. It is the only option. A conservative Dem is still better than giving up the country to the Republicans. What is it about Mississippi that you don’t understand?
What is it about Kansas that you don’t understand.
What does that have to do with the price of peanuts in China?
“What’s the Matter with Kansas”
So, just like you think that all people who don’t agree with your one issue are equivalent to the Devil, you think Mississippi is equivalent to Kansas?
Perhaps a peanut in China is equivalent to bug in my backyard.
for fucksake read the summary…
Your summary of your political Bible does not concern me. You seem to think that book is God and anyone who disagrees with your opinion is equivalent to the Devil. You have no argument. You shuck and jive and repeat yourself, and say the same things over and over. When someone disagrees with you, you cuss at them and equate them with the Devil. This thread is over, too.
There is NOTHING logical about electing Republicans and hoping that they will defend Democratic values… that is the most assbackwards logic I have ever heard. It is just plain lazy … and a bullshit DLC/NDN strategy…. who by the way are both funded by the Republican Majority Fund… get a freaking clue.
I do not wish to elect any Republicans. I would much rather elect a Democrat who doesn’t agree with every single one of my personal positions than vote for a thug who agrees with NONE of my positions.
Well then just call me a “single issue voter” because I do not want to see women DIE!!!
Glad to see you embracing your “single issue voter” stance. Now it’s all very clear. You would indeed vote for the pro-choice pedophilic, warmongering traitor over a kind, decent, peaceloving, universal-healthcare-advocate Democrat who disagreed with your one issue, right?
Keeping women healthy and alive seems to be a very good “pet issue” or perhaps it should promote FEC regulations to get capital flowing into blogs unrestricted… every one has their issues… and it is just shows you views if you equate pro-choice with pedophilia…
What part of “women will die” you don’t fucking understand…????
I did not equate pedophilia with pro-choice. I put it there to show how ridiculous it is to be an “obstinate one-issue only to the exclusion of everything else” voter, and to say such evil things about letting the Devil win.
I understand plenty about “women will die”. I also understand that the Devil himself would torture all of humanity and everyone would die. What is it about the Devil that you don’t understand?
How many pro-choice pedophiles do you know????
Hey, it’s a big country. I bet there are a few out there. I don’t know any personally. If I did I would turn them in to the police so quick you couldn’t say “Devil” before I did.
decent, peaceloving, universal-healthcare-advocate Democrat… who is willing to politicize a woman’s body for political gain and willing to jeopardise her life…that doesn’t sound so …decent, peaceloving
So a Dem legislating harmful regulations that could kill women is better than the GOP?…
So, the Devil would be better, right?
THAT IS THE FUCKING POINT NIETHER ARE ACCEPTABLE
Yes, it is possible to be decent and peaceloving and to be wrong about choice. Such an individual needs education and pressure to change, not hatred. To compare someone like that to the Devil is just wrong.
To compare someone like that to the Devil is just wrong.
How else would you describe a politician who uses womens lives for political gain…???
I totally disagree with your premise that every single anti-choice politician is equivalent to the Devil. You seem to think that if someone holds a mistaken position that therefore they are actively, positively, using women’s lives for political gain. You refuse to face the fact that some people actually believe that the anti-choice position is morally and religiously correct.
I believe that some people are sincere, but misguided and wrong. You believe that they are all equivalent to the Devil.
You go ahead and keep telling them they are the Devil. I will continue to try to educate, inform, cajole, and pressure them to adopt the proper view.
Let’s see which tactic is more effective. If you agree to tell every anti-choice Dem that you meet that they are the Devil incarnate and refuse to discuss it further with them, I will agree to continue to argue with anti-choice Dems forcefully and with superior moral and religious arguments. We can meet back here on a regular basis and see who can change more minds.
this was a made up wedge issue…invented by the GOP and it worked because the Dems decided to “be like them” than to fight for womens rights…
If you look that vast majority of anti-abortion politicians support cuts in welfare, education and healthcare… they could not give a damn about babies
What’s the matter, don’t you think telling anti-choice Democrats that they are equivalent to the Devil would be effective in convincing them to change?
You keep dodging and ducking and repeating yourself and you refuse to repudiate making the vilest of all possible comparisons.
This is over, I refuse to waste my time.
Sorry women aren’t for sale…. and what you seem to forget is that the majority of Americans are PRO-CHOICE.
That is why Hackett could compete in a totally “red” area against the president of the local anti-abortion chapter. What are spouting is a lie touted by the DLCers whose real interests lie with the Republican Neo-cons…helping *them
to secure their wingnut base.
Why are wrong is if political leadership believed as you do… there would be no end to slavery, women would still not be allowed to vote, it would be legal to hire children as laborers … therefore you are so very wrong on a deep and fundalmental level.
The majority of Americans are pro-choice, but the majority of Mississippians are not.
And Hackett LOST. HE LOST. What about that don’t you understand?
As for the right of women to vote, it first happened that only white women above the age of 21 could vote. Then, later, the Voting Rights Act gave protection and assurance to minorities that their right to vote would be protected. Then, even later, all Americans gained the right to vote at age 18. What about these steps toward fair enfranchisement do you think are sell-outs?
You can wish for a total revolution overnight, and someday you may get one, but it hasn’t happened here in over a hundred and forty years and I personally don’t believe its going to happen now. You may be one of those who believe that we should go ahead and vote for Republicans in order to bring on the revolution, but I’m not. Sometimes change is incremental, whether we like it or not.
Thank you for making my point… you have to go FORWARDS…not backwards in order to progress.
Going forward is all well and good. I’m for it. However, we have already taken two or three giant steps backward. I don’t think we can move forward again with a Republican majority. You may be right that we still won’t be able to do it with a Democratic majority, but I think we stand a hell of a lot better chance with Dems in the majority. I do not believe that Dems would put wingnut mysogynists on the SCOTUS.
I challenge you to come live in Mississippi and run as a blatantly pro-choice no-restrictions Dem and see how many votes you get. Or at least come here and go door to door with me and talk to these people. You will then understand what I am up against in this crazy place. Until then, I don’t think you get it.
I don’t think the strategy that works in Massachusetts works in Mississippi. As a matter of fact, I’ve lived both places and I KNOW the same strategies won’t work. All I am saying is that HERE, IN MISSISSIPPI, no pro-choice Dem is going to win an election in 2006. That is a fact, so what then? Should I stay home and let the thugs win by a thin margin? So they could actively and agressively take away the Bill of Rights, too?
Your rigidity is underwhelming.
Your rigidity is underwhelming.
No the Democratic Party’s complete lost of power in every branch of government due to this bullshit “move to the center” is overwhelming
A conservative Dem over a wacko Republican would be a move to the left in my state, not a move to the right.
Bullshit… look at the Salazars… they moved Colorado more to the right than any GOPer ever did.
As a frequent critic of Ken Salazar, and someone who would probably come to blows with his little brother were we placed in the same room, I defy you to explain to me how the Republicans they beat would have been better choices.
In some sense, electing these DINOs has blunted progressive energy. (Although I’d argue the opposite in our case, if I had half an hour to type out my reasoning.) But they have not moved Colorado to the right.
I am often sympathetic to your arguments, Parker. We all struggle with the wisdom of supporting half-assed Democrats, every election. I’m not lifting a finger to help Bill Ritter, an anti-choice Democrat running for Governor next year. On the other hand, unless a progressive Democrat decides to run–which is still quite possible–I don’t see how it helps me to drag Ritter down or to tell others that a choice between the two is false, when I don’t believe that myself.
I never said the GOP would be “better” choices. The Salazars are Republicans… point blank. Neither have any loyalty to the Democratic party.
I don’t see how it helps me to drag Ritter down or to tell others that a choice between the two is false, when I don’t believe that myself.
The Democratic leadership which is being lead by the nose of the Republican funded DLC … has used this same ploy over and over again to move the party to the right and to promote the ideologoes and issues of the GOP.
ENOUGH is ENOUGH… let them fall on their face… if we keep supporting these anti abortion anti Dem candidates the DLC will keep running them…and making sure to block progressives from running… that was the whole idea behind establishing the NDN to keep progressives and liberal out of races by corporatly funding their own candidates.
Now that you say Colorado is next in line for another anti abortion Dem candidate… it is time to put a halt on this shit. Governors are the best candidates for president and it seems like the Dem Leadership is filling the Dem bench with anti abortion propectees…
Frankly,…at this point there really isn’t anything left to lose …unless the GOP wants to reinstate slavery… I’ll give them another decade in power to do that.
And Republican Dems like Salazar aren’t going to do the Democrats bidding anyway…
Voting for Republican Democrats only destroys the party and it’s platform…unless you believe in the DKos/NDN/DLC logic that the Democratic party should not stand for anything…well unless they are GOP ideologies and issues to appeal to a more “white christian” base… just like the GOP.
Why won’t you answer my question, rather than giving me a list of anti-choice house members?
The question is, do Specter et al, do more to protect or erode women’s rights?
And if they do more to erode them, wouldn’t the reverse be true for Democratic anti-choice Senators in a Democratic majority?
In other words, Sen. Ben Nelson is anti-choice. But if his seat provided the Dems with a majority in the Senate, we could block judges from getting through the judiciary committee, which would do more do protect women’s rights than electing a pro-choice Senator from Nebraska would.
You know I am not in favor of running anti-choice candidates, particularly when other strong candidates are available. I am only asking a political point, which you refuse to answer.
A Democratic majority is more important than whether any particular Senator is pro-choice. Unless Arlen blocks Scalito I can’t see how that point can be argued.
What can be argued is that getting mushy on women’s rights is going to hurt the party and make it harder to get a majority. But that is a different argument.
Because that is the same dK bullshit that is being spewed all over the blogs… frankly I don’t give a shit about the Republicans because I do not vote for them nor do I help fund their campaigns. As for the Democrats I think I have the right to DEMAND yes DEMAND a modicum of party loyalty.
It is rediculous to sit here a year after the second Bush debacle and split hairs whether or not a Republican Dem is better than a Republican Republican…particulary when we have seen Republican Dems sell out the Democratic base on 98% of Democratic issues…
If Kaine wins… 6 months to a year from now we all will be groaning over some boneheaded GOP stunt he’s gonna pull… like we didn’t know it was going to happen.
you are ignoring is that the ‘dKos bullshit’ has a force of logic behind it.
There are plenty of counterarguments. And I often use them. But it does us no good to ignore the fact (and it is a fact) that women’s rights are better protected by a Democratic majority in the Senate than they are by whether or not each and every Democratic Senator is pro-choice.
The question is whether or not we are well-served to pick anti-choice candidates to obtain that majority. And I can see certain races where being pro-choice is a hard sell. That is not the case in Pennsylvania or Rhode Island, so I never agreed with Kos when he started going after NARAL.
But what about Mississippi or Utah or Oklahoma?
There are only a few states where the majority oppose abortion rights, but they do exist. Can pro-choice candidates state-wide races in those states? I think they can. But it isn’t easy.
‘dKos bullshit’ has a force of logic behind it….no it is just BULLSHIT.
And if we were to have listen to the “dKos logic”…Rosa Parks would still be sitting at the back of the bus… the only “logic” is the path of least resistence…
It doesn’t even garuantee success…in fact as it has been proven (due to the fact that Democrats have lost EVERY branch of government) quite false… yet this damn duck refuses to die… I guess that is what having a 200 million dollar [Do Not] Think Tank does…
to try to engage you on this subject, because you won’t engage in a discussion.
Asserting the argument is bullshit is useless. It’s not bullshit. Arlen Specter heads the judiciary committee, he is pro-choice, he is going to let two straight anti-choice judges go through his committee to the Senate floor, where they will be confirmed.
If he were willing to block Scalito, then the dKos argument would be bullshit. But he not willing to do that, so the dKos argument has great force.
That is because your argument is COMPLETELY FALSE:
You are jumping to the HUGE ASSUMPTION that somehow anti-abortion Democrats will uphold womens reproductive rights when they have NEVER proported to doing so or evening wanting to do so…hence they would not campaign on politicizing a women’s womb for their political gain.
It was a bullshit wedge issue and Democrats are just giving it more credibility.
So Specter is going to block Scalito, and he did block Roberts? I hadn’t noticed.
So electing MORE anti-choice Dems will protect women’s reproductive rights NO… like I said I have absolutely NOTHING at all to do with the GOP… what the GOP does is their business…what the Democrats do is mine…
Circle of influence… I have more influence over my immediate environment ie the Democratic party than the GOP…
my problem with your argument.
You are saying that Specter and other GOP Republicans are useless for protecting women’s rights. I agree.
Then you are saying that a few anti-choice democrats will not be useless in undermining women’s rights if the tables are turned and the Dems are in the majority. I can’t agree.
The system works the same way, no matter who is in power. The party that controls the Senate controls the judges. And they can block judges that don’t pass their litmus tests.
If the Dems controlled the Senate, Alito would not get out of the judiciary committee, and probably would not even have been nominated. It wouldn’t matter whether Casey was in the Senate or Santorum, or Pennacchio.
That’s the point you refuse to acknowledge.
You are saying that Specter and other GOP Republicans are useless for protecting women’s rights.
I said no such thing…you just made that up… I said that I do not give a shit what the GOP does…since I can not effect change in their party.
a few anti-choice democrats
give me a fucking break… that is the most disengenous statement I have ever read from you.
Schumer came right out and said that he only want to put up anti-abortion Dems… a fucking few MORE Dems is all that is needed to ban abortion.
Here is just a “few” Democrats for Life All Stars
Alabama
Judy Belk- 1st Congressional District
Arkansas
U.S. Representative Marion Berry – 1st Congressional District
Senator Tim Wooldridge – 11th District
Senator Jack Critcher – 12th District
Jerry Taylor – 23rd District
Senator Jimmy Jeffress – 24th District
Senator Gene Jeffress – 25th District
Senator Bobby Glover – 28th District
Robert Jeffrey – 7th District
Dewayne Mack – 23rd District
Dawn Creekmore – 27th District
State Representative Dwight Fite – 28th District
Tommy Coates – 48th District
Tommy Dickinson – 58th District
David Wyatt – 72nd District
Ray Kidd – 76th District
Travis Boyd -79th District
State Representative Harmon Seawel – 80th District
Colorado
Chris Rose – 27th District
Florida
Bob Hagenmaier – Congressional District
Carl Joaquin Duncan – 7th District
Dwight Stansel – 11th District
Georgia
Representative Jim Marshall
Sylvia Delamar – 8th Congressional District
Judge Rick Crawford- 11th Congressional District
Roger Boatright – 7th District
Howard Rainey – 13th District
Terrell Starr – 44th District
Mike Snow – 1st District
Charles Jenkins – 8th District
Stan Watson – 91st District
Carl Bergman – 102nd District
Darrius Geter – 111th District
Terry Evans – 112th District
Greg Morris – 155th District
Woodrow Lovett – 157th District
Bert Oliver – 166th District
A. Richard Roval – 171 District
Jesse Andres Crews, Jrs. – 177th District
Hinson Mosley – 178th District
Illinois
Dan Lipinski – 3rd Congressional District
U.S. Representative Jerry Costello – 12th Congressional District
John Sullivan – 47th District
State Senator William Haine – 56th District
Gary Forby – 59th District
Joseph Lyons – 19th District
Ralph Capparelli – 20th District
James Brosnahan – 36th District
Bill Scheurer – 61st District
Bob Brown – 70th District
Jack McGuire – 86th District
Gary Hanig – 98th District
Robert “Bob” Flider – 101st District
Bill Grunloh- 108th District
Dan Reitz – 116th District
John Bradley – 117th District
Brandon Phelps – 118th District
Indiana
Joe Donnelly – 2nd Congressional District
State Senator Lindel O. Hume – 48th District
State Representative Bob Bischoff- 68th District
Iowa
Bill Gluba – 1st Congressional District
State Senator John (“Jack”) P. Kibbie, – 4th District
Tom Hancock – 16th District
State Representative Dolores Mertz – 8th District
State Representative Brian Quirk – 15th District
Thomas J. Schueller – 26th District
State Representative Pat Murphy – 28th District
Ray Zirkelbach – 31st District
Michael McMahon – 32nd District
Kentucky
Tony Miller- 3rd Congressional District
Nick Clooney – 4th Congressional District
State Senator David Boswell – 8th Senate District
James R. Carr – 8th House District
Joseph E. “Eddie” Ballard – 10th District
State Representative Tommy Thompson – 14th District
State Representative Jimmie Lee – 25th District
Mike Weaver – 26th District
Jim Wayne- 35th District
Denver Butler – 38th District
State Representative Robert R. Damron – 39th District
Tom Riner – 41st District
Royce W. Adams – 61st District
Arnold R. Simpson – 65th District
John Will Stacy – 71st District
Rick Nelson – 87th District
W. Keith Hall – 93rd District
Tanya Pullin – 98th District
Louisiana
U.S. Representative Chris John – U.S. Senate
Damon Baldone
Don Cravins
Willie Mount
State Representative Roy “Hoppy” Hopkins – 1st District
State Representative Cedric Bradford Glover – 4th District
State Representative Beverly Bruce – 7th District
State Representative Jane Smith – 8th District
State Representative Billy Montgomery – 9th District
State Representative Jean Doerge -10th District
State Representative James R. “Jim” Fannin – 13th District
State Representative Charles McDonald -14th District
State Representative Willie Hunter -17th District
State Representative Donald “Don” Cazayoux -18th District
State Representative Francis Thompson -19th District
State Representative Lelon Kenney – 20th District
State Representative Bryant Hammett – 21st District
State Representative Tommy Wright – 22nd District
State Representative Taylor Townsend – 23th District
State Representative Joe Salter – 24th District
State Representative Charles W. “Charlie” Dewitt 25th District
State Representative Rick Farrar27th District
State Representative MonicaWalker 28th District
Sharon Weston Broome 29th District
State Representative John Smith 30th District
State Representative Herman Hill 32nd District
State Representative Elcie Guillory 34th District
State Representative Dan “Blade” Morrish 37th District
State Representative Eric LaFleur 38th District
State Representative Clara Baudoin 39th District
State Representative Gil Pinac 42nd District
State Representative Jerry Luke LeBlanc 45th District
State Representative Sydnie Mae Durand 46
State Representative Mickey Frith 47th District
State Representative Errol “Romo” Romero 48th District
State Representative Troy Hebert 49th District
State Representative Jack Smith 50th District
State Representative Carla Dartez 51st District
State Representative Damon Baldone 53th District
State Representative Warren Triche 55th District
State Representative Gary Smith 56
State Representative Robert R. Bobby Faucheux 57th District
State Representative Karen Gaudet St. Germain 60th District
State Representative William Daniel 68th District
State Representative Robert Carter 72nd District
State Representative John Alario 83th District
State Representative N.J. Damico 84th District
State Representative Austin Badon, Jr. 100th District
State Representative Kenneth Odinet 103th District
State Representative Ernest Wooton 105th District
Maine
U.S. Representative Mike Michaud
Richard J. Carey – 18th District
Senator Stephen Stanley – 27th District
Joseph C. Perry – 32nd District
John Martin – 35th District
Troy D. Jackson – 1st District
Rosaire Paradis, Jr. – 2nd District
Jacqueline A. Lunden – 6th District
State Representative Herbert E. Clark – 10th District
Raymond G. Pineau – 87th District
State Representative Ross Paradis – 150th District
Maryland
Senator Norman R. Stone – 6th District
Senator Leo E. Green – 23rd District
Senator Thomas M. Middleton – 28th District
Senator Roy P. Dyson – 29th District
Senator Philip C. Jimeno – 31st District
Senator James E. DeGrange – 32nd District
State Representative Kevin Kelly – District 1B
State Representative John P. Donoghue – District 2C
State Representative Joseph J. Minnick – 6th District
State Representative Emmett C. Burns, Jr. – 10th District
State Representative Anne Healey – 22nd District
State Representative Mary A. Conroy – District 23A
State Representative Joseph F. Vallario, Jr. – District 27A
State Representative George W. Owings, III – District 27B
State Representative Van T. Mitchell – 28th District
State Representative John F. Wood, Jr. – District 29A
State Representative Theodore J. Sophocleus – 32nd District
State Representative David D. Rudolph – District 34B
Massachusetts
U.S. Representative Stephen Lynch
State Senator Marian Walsh – Norfolk and Sufolk District
State Representative Emile Goguen – 3rd Worcester District
State Representative Mark Carron – Sixth Worcester District
State Representative Paul J. Donato – 35th District
State Representative Philip Travis – Fourth Bristol District
Edward Connolly
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Last Updated ( Friday, 24 June 2005 )
will you please focus on the Senate, since that is what I am talking about?
The whole NARAL issue was about the Senate. Not state legislatures.
Your argument would be a lot more solid if you would debate your opponents on the merits of their arguments rather than continually ignoring their point.
The argument is over whether or not the Dems should run anti-choice Senators if they are the strongest candidates. The argument was that Langevin had the strongest chance of winning Chafee’s seat and Casey has the best chance of beating Santorum.
And (if that were true) it would make sense to run them in the interest of winning a majoriry IN THE SENATE.
My problem with that argument is that I think we can win in Rhode Island, and even more so, in Pennsylvania, without relying on those candidates, who are viable in spite of being anti-choice, and not because of it.
But as for Mississippi? That might be a different story.
if that were true) it would make sense to run them in the interest of winning a majoriry IN THE SENATE
In which the MAJORITY ANTI-ABORTION Senate would promptly enact every legistation in it power to ban abortion… with NO OPPOSITION… why is this simple fact so hard for you to grasp
it is hard to grasp because it isn’t true.
When Arlen Specter begins passing legislation to protect a woman’s right to choose I will be believe it possible for a anti-choice Democrat to do the opposite in a Democratic Senate.
I have no reason to believe the dynamics would be different.
Stop lying to yourself… and to others…why the fuck would they be anti-abortion if they were not going to legislate against women. I am sick of this shit…
Anti-abortion Dems are NOT PARTISAN… they spell it out quite clearly that they put this “pet issue” above the party… tell me again how electing MORE of the same …will protect women… IT IS A LIE and I wish you and Kos would stop spouting this crap.
how many times are you going to bring up a subject unrelated to the Senate?
How many times are you going to ignore that anti abortion Dem no matter where the hell they are state, House, Senate will NOT uphold women’s reproductive rights…??? Or is it just easy to pretend that they will when ALL EVIDENCE proves otherwise.
I never said they would, Parker, I said that a Democratic run Senate will uphold them better than a Republican run Senate. Period. And that is all I said.
I also said that I think we should only consider running anti-choice candidates in the few states where the majority is anti-choice. Consider.
Like I said MANY TIMES anti abortion Democrats are NOT partisan in this respect… anti abortion Democrats PUBLICIZE the fact that they do and WILL vote across party lines when it comes to abortion… they fucking advertise the fact that they are more than happy to join up with wingnuts to pass these egerious bills…
Democratic run Senate will uphold them better than a Republican run Senate
This statement is CATEGORICALLY FALSE.
They only thing that matters in this fight is the number of anti abortion politicians versus the number of pro choice. Adding to the contingent of anti-abortion politicians will in NO WAY protect women’s rights even if they are Democrats…. this is proven DAILY. Your argument that these same people… in GREATER numbers will magically reverse their anti abortion positions and support women’s reproductive rights is one of the boggest lies floating around… right up there with WMDs.
A Democratic run Senate will NOT uphold reproductive rights of women if the numbers of anti abortion Democrats INCREASES to a level where they can maintain an overall anti abortion Senate mojority in league with anti abortion Republicans.
The ONLY means in the Senate in which we can protect reproductive rights is to ensure that anti abortion politicians do not become a majority. Since we have no influence over anti-abortion GOPers… that leaves making sure there are a few anti-abortion Dems as possible.
Democrats for Life spell out the same rationale… they want to ban abortion therefore they are working to INCREASE the number of anti abortion legislatures in the States, the House and the Senate… and openly work in league with the GOP…to make sure that anti-abortion maintains a majority vote.
state legislatures are MORE IMPORTANT since if Roe is over turned and kicked back to the state the Democratic base will be gutted by our own party.
Thanks for recognizing the difference, Booman. I hate my state for lots of reasons, but I also can’t leave it for lots of reasons. I am in a terrible position. I hate conservative Dems almost as much as I hate the thugs that are in control. I’m a small ‘i’ independent and always have been because of this. But I do believe that if we could get a Dem majority, things would be better. How much better, I’m not really totally sure. But I’m willing to support Dems here in certain districts in Mississippi even if they are only moderate-to-conservative, because the alternative is usually a total wing-nut poster-child. For example, I would rather have Gene Taylor-D representing my district than Chip Pickering-R, who is a total sell-out. That doesn’t mean that I would be HAPPY with Gene Taylor. But if it got the Dems control of the House to elect such a Dem to replace Pickering, I’d be for it.
It is still arguable that the Dems wouldn’t put anti-choice legislation on the agenda. If the Dems do get control and put such items on the floor of the House or the Senate, I will rethink my position. I think we all would, if such a thing were to come to pass.
and you are ignoring the fact that the Democratis Leadership is increasing it’s support of anti abortion Democratis candidates… therefore your point is moot if the Democrats elected refuse to protect women’s rights.
It became clear that NARAL was MORE supportive of the Democratic base than the Democratic leadership.
Not only are the Democratic Leadership supporting and endorsing crappy Republican Democrats like Casey et al… but those Dems who have been “pro-choice” feel the need to get wingnut cred and sponsor shit like the “Right for Pharmacists to Discriminate” Bill that Hilliary and Kerry sponsored with the Grand Wingnut himself Sanatorum.
Then there is this:
H.R.3746 ‘To prohibit certain abortions. ‘
9.13.2005–Introduced. Late Term Abortion Restriction Act – Prohibits knowingly performing an abortion after the fetus has become viable, unless, in the medical judgment of the attending physician, the abortion is necessary to preserve the woman’s life or to avert serious adverse health consequences to her. Subjects a physician who violates this Act to a civil penalty.
Sponsored by:
Sep. 13, 2005 Rep. Ellen Tauscher (D-CA)
Sep. 13, 2005 Rep. Mark Kirk (R-IL)
Sep. 13, 2005 Rep. Robert Menendez (D-NJ)
Sep. 13, 2005 Rep. Maurice Hinchey (D-NY)
Sep. 13, 2005 Rep. Adam Schiff (D-CA)
Sep. 13, 2005 Rep. Rosa DeLauro (D-CT)
Sep. 13, 2005 Rep. Dennis Moore (D-KS)
Sep. 13, 2005 Rep. Ron Kind (D-WI)
Sep. 13, 2005 Rep. Barney Frank (D-MA)
Sep. 13, 2005 Rep. Albert Wynn (D-MD)
Sep. 13, 2005 Rep. Nancy Johnson (R-CT)
— Rep. Steny Hoyer (D-MD)
Sep. 13, 2005 Rep. Jim Kolbe (R-AZ)
Sep. 13, 2005 Rep. Rick Boucher (D-VA)
Sep. 13, 2005 Rep. Adam Smith (D-WA)
Let’s beat the Republicans by by electing our own… Republicans.
people get a clue… these people ARE NOT DEMOCRATS