… what will historians write about Bush’s speeches, including the one he’s giving right now? (Discuss here if you’d like.)
“When historians look back at the Iraq war, they will divide it into the pre- and post-Murtha eras,” writes Trudy Rubin for today’s Miami Herald.
Today — early on in the post-Murtha era — House Democrats are meeting to debate the top issues. About today’s meeting the Seattle P.I.‘s D.C. correspondent Charles Pope observes that while “Iraq has taken a toll on President Bush and his Republican allies … Democrats are finding the issue hard as well, and the party has been unable to reconcile competing internal visions over Iraq’s future or the best plan for bringing U.S. troops home.”
Just how divergent those views are could come into sharp focus today as House Democrats meet to discuss the war and lay the groundwork for a more unified policy.
In that respect, the six House Democrats from Washington state offer a telling snapshot of the crosscurrents pulling Democrats nationwide. Four of them — Jim McDermott, Jay Inslee, Rick Larsen and Brian Baird — voted in September 2002 against going to war while Norm Dicks and Adam Smith voted to give the president permission to invade.
No one expects a consensus to emerge today. “It’s part of an ongoing conversation,” Democratic Leader Nancy Pelosi’s spokeswoman, Jen Crider, said. “The leader understands that decisions about Iraq are a personal decision.”
Dicks and Smith have recently said they regretted their votes. Dicks’ statement was especially significant because he is among the most respected voices on military matters and has vigorously supported the Pentagon.
“Now Norm Dicks is with me and Jack Murtha is with me,” McDermott said … [Susan’s note: You may remember Seattle’s Jim McDermott from his prominent interview as an outspoken war critic in Michael Moore’s “Fahrenheit 911.”] — From today’s Seattle PI, via Howie in Seattle
Just like the Miami Herald’s Rubin, Charles Pope sees “some broad outlines are emerging, mostly a result of comments made two weeks ago by Murtha …”
Murtha proclaimed the Iraq strategy a failure and called for the withdrawal of U.S. troops within six months. Other Democrats have said that most troops should leave Iraq by the end of 2006 if certain specific benchmarks are reached.
[Jay] Inslee said he could support such a framework. [Susan’s note: Inslee, who lives on Bainbridge Island, was my mom’s representative until her death. Inslee is a longtime close friend of Joe Wilson’s, and he sponsored the seminar in which Wilson first said Karl Rove should be frogmarched out of the White House in handcuffs.]
While holding back for more than a week, Pelosi finally endorsed Murtha’s position last week. Yet the No. 2 Democrat in the House, Steny Hoyer of Maryland, refused. “A precipitous withdrawal of American forces in Iraq,” he said, “could lead to disaster, spawning a civil war, fostering a haven for terrorists and damaging our nation’s security and credibility.”
If not for Murtha, Dicks’ reversal could well have been the most significant defection. Dicks, like Murtha, has historically supported the military, even when it angered his party. He was a vocal advocate for such controversial programs as the B-2 bomber.
Yet when asked last week if he would vote again to invade Iraq given what he knows today, Dicks said, “Absolutely not.”
Norm Dicks is my representative. I am so grateful to Jack Murtha for opening a pathway for hawkish Democrats like Dicks. And, now, while the Smirking Chimp is on my teevee set — blathering on about the terrorists that he has created — I’ll close with this from Trudy Rubin’s must-read op-ed essay in the Miami Herald:
Murtha’s call released a torrent of pent-up doubts from Americans who were initially willing to support the war but want to know why things have gone sour. The congressman has made it legitimate to voice criticisms that would previously have been denounced as unpatriotic.
[…..]
If the White House wants Americans to support a continued Iraq presence, it will have to absorb the Murtha message: Talk straight, come clean, hold people accountable, offer a clear plan for the future without misleading statistics. And stop insulting critics who point to mistakes that are apparent to everyone, regardless of White House denials.
“Talk straight, come clean, hold people accountable, offer a clear plan for the future without misleading statistics …” Doesn’t the same hold true for the House Democrats in their meeting today? Just as the now-historic Jack Murtha has done, shouldn’t they also talk straight with the people they represent?
What is that doofus saying now? I don’t have the tee-vee on…
This is bad … I was reading Chris Kulczycki’s diary and got lost in it! (It’s wonderful.) And I haven’t been listening.
I think it’s terrorists … terrorists … terrorists … terrorists … terrorists … terrorists … terrorists … terrorists … work with Iraqi leaders to give reconstruction Ks to Iraqi firms … hey! There’s an idea!
Don’t forget:
“September 11….September 11…. 9/11…. Setptember 11, 2001”
Um, can anyone remember what happened to Iraq’s infrastructure?
Jesus … he’s quoting Lieberman at length again!
And over and over!
(Um, are the rumors true about Lieberman being a longtime turncoat? Er, him becoming Secretary of Defense?)
My reaction to this:
Democratic Leader Nancy Pelosi’s spokeswoman, Jen Crider, said.
“The leader understands that decisions about Iraq are a personal decision.”
[emphasis mine]
NO MA’M, Leader Pelosi, NO!! That is PRECISELY the problem, these decisions are NOT AT ALL PERSONAL to 99% of the FUCKERS who are making them!! The EFFECTS of the decisions made are sure as shit personal to many out here in the midst of the unwashed masses, though. But, please, don’t let that get in the way of your “ongoing conversation”.
Gods, they ALL make me SICK!
Yup… she dickered around too long … at least she’s standing beside Murtha now. But she should be very decisive about it.
We need decisive leadership.
I won’t be holding my breath.
Didn’t mean to go off in your post, Susan, I just had a violent reaction to that quote! All of this is too little, waaaaay to late. I am so sick of hearing about “regrets” over that vote…you can undo the damage of the last three years, tell me what you are doing RIGHT NOW, not what you are going to do later, or what you are thinking about maybe doing at some point — ACTION! NOW! What is it?
As I said I won’t be holding my breath.
Brinn, I need to read someone going nuts, don’t apologize for it. Somebody’s got to express these emotions for us. Where’s Michael Moore? I couldn’t watch the speech. I think the time for polite reactions to george is already past. As for Nancy – the war is only personal when it comes in your front door and takes your child away. They can all be delicate about it because it’s not their blood.
Thanks, Alice, sometimes I can’t even think straight until I have gotten my reactions out!
😉
I have given up watching Bush speeches, catnip’s not around to live blog them with anymore, and they’re bad for my health in any case….
It’s cool…. it is upsetting.
I wonder if we should call our Rep’s offices today and let them KNOW that we are watching, and we want a clear message to come out of that meeting. TODAY.
And I think I’m going to write up Howard Dean in a bit. He’s getting pummeled for his statement the other day that we can’t win in Iraq. … Bush targeted him in this speech.
If you’re doing a piece on Dean — look up an interview the Shrubster gave in August 31, 2004 (I am not positive that is the right date, but know it was 8/04) to Matt Lauer on NBC’s Today show…I heard Jerry Springer (I still can’t believe that I actually listen to him!?!?) make a really good point this morning (and apparently he told the same thing to Joe Scarborough last night):
[paraphrase follows]
Who gives a rat’s ass about whether or not what Dean said is bad for democrats or good for republicans??? This is WAR we’re talking about, not partisian politics — the question we SHOULD be discussing is: what if Dean is RIGHT? What if that is really the bottom line?
Then he quoted Bush from the above interview when Bush said “I don’t think we can win it.” (It being the war on terror…)
Nancy Pelosi needs a new job, preferrably nothing to do with the Dem Party. Several other prominent (so-called) Dems should do the same.
I’d like to see a mechanism established in the Dem and Repub Parties that provides for elected members who betray the principles and ideals upon which those parties are supposed to be based to be voted out of the party.
For Lieberman to use the “D” after his name should be considered a crime against the party.
As to susan’s question about what the historians will write about Bush, it depends on who’s running things when that history is written. History is almost always written by the victors.
Wouldn’t it be fitting that, since Iran and aAl Qaeda seem to be the ones who stand to gain the most from Bush policy in the MidEast that they might wind up being the chroniclers of the Bush legacy down the road a couple of decades?
Murtha but the slow realization by some dems that they need to pay attention. This war is not about terror, unless it is about terrorizing the us citizenry.
Ummm… Steny… buddy… what was that you were saying again?
The point Mr. Hoyer is afraid of happened several years ago: When Brehmer disbanded the Iraqi military with no plan in place for employing several million insurgency-age Iraqi men. Withdrawing only changes the dynamics, and it could be an improvement if other countries help repair what we destroyed. Of course, we don’t get to keep all the oil for ourselves that way.
Bush will announce in his next State of the Union that a withdrawal of most of the US forces in Iraq will take place at a point conveniently after the 2006 mid-term elections. After the elections, they will seize upon some pretext to cancel the withdrawal and we will be in Iraq at least until Bush is out of office, because there is no way they’re leaving all of that oil for others to plunder.
Glad you picked that up out of the newspaper story … he is really out to lunch.
Steny Hoyer has to put himself few miles south of his Congressional District a few centuries ago in Cornwallis headquarters at Yorktown and ask himself how are the British going to defeat the American insurgents.
They can’t. We can’t.
Don’t ignore what is happening.
Bush has had to come out and defend the war. Before now the GOP propaganda machine would be spun into operation and Idiot would have been kept behind closed doors. Safe from all intrusions of reality.
But then again, there is Lieberman and Clinton: two pro-war Democrats who will distance themselves from any withdrawal talk, and will undermine efforts at unity every chance they get. As a result, either the Democrats will end up with no position at all, or else you will see Lieberman and Clinton on Fox News talking about how wrong the Democrats are.
You can crow all you want about the demise of George W. Bush, but do not forget that according to polls the Democrats in Congress are less popular than the president. With the Democrats in Congress at 25% approval I don’t see why people here are so gleeful. The Democrats have taken a glorious opportunity to turn the tables on the Republicans and have screwed it up by being the party of no agenda, no plan and no hope.
Susan,
Norm Dicks is my representative, too (and someone I knew in high school). It is a very good sign that he is moving towards us. When I was back in Bremerton two years ago, the ‘support our troops’ signs were still all over the place; this last August, there were many fewer. Dicks’ seat is as safe as they come, so he doesn’t have to pander to either side, which might mean he’s actually changing his mind. It didn’t surprise me that he voted for the Resolution. Bemerton is a lot more redneck than it was when I was growing up there as a kid in the 40’s and 50’s, but the combination of the old FDR dems of my parents’ generation and the professionals who have been moving in seems to provide a solid base of liberal support.
It’s good news, in any event.
As an utterly unrelated piece of gossip. I was having dinner in Washington DC this weekend with an old friend from the Fed, and discovered that his daughter had a longtime serious relation with Dicks’ son. Small world.
Norm Dicks does right by his district. He visits us up here in the wilderness regularly. (So do both Patty Murray and Maria Cantwell.)
I don’t begrudge him his original vote on Iraq. He reflected his district. But now that he’s speaking out, he’s reflecting his district too.
And, let’s face it, this area needs those defense industry jobs. And how.
I know a lot of people who COMMUTE to Bremerton from the Peninsula. That’s a long drive every day. (Or they sleep in their vans during the week.)
Which hand-picked group is Preznit Pretzleface ranting in front of today?
I wish one of the major polling firms would ask the question;
Do you believe the people running the Bush administration have any real intention of bringing home a significant number of troops from Iraq and the midEast.