A second prison crammed with hundreds of maltreated Iraqis was uncovered last Thursday in Baghdad the Washington Post and The New York Times are reporting in Monday’s editions. Thirteen prisoners were in such bad shape they were immediately taken to a hospital. The Post’s story by Ellen Knickmeyer appeared late Sunday night on the newspaper’s Web site:
An Iraqi government search of a detention center in Baghdad operated by Interior Ministry special commandos found 13 prisoners who had suffered abuse serious enough to require medical treatment, U.S. and Iraqi officials said Sunday night.
An Iraqi official with firsthand knowledge of the search said that at least 12 of the 13 prisoners had been subjected to “severe torture,” including sessions of electric shock and episodes that left them with broken bones.
“Two of them showed me their nails, and they were gone,” the official said on condition of anonymity because of security concerns..
Edward Wong at the Times wrote, however, that the raid was a joint Iraqi-U.S. operation, led by the Ministry of Human Rights:
The detention center raided Thursday, situated to the east of the Tigris River, is run by a commando unit from the Interior Ministry, which oversees the country’s police forces, said the senior American official, Lt. Col. Guy Rudisill, a spokesman for the American detention system in Iraq. When members of the search team entered the building, he said, they found “overcrowded” conditions that prompted them to begin transferring the prisoners. …
The Interior Ministry is run by Bayan Jabr, a member of the Supreme Council for the Islamic Revolution in Iraq, a leading religious Shiite party that has an Iranian-trained armed wing called the Badr Organization. Many Iraqi officials have said the ministry has recruited heavily from Badr and other Shiite militias, and there is growing evidence that such forces are abducting, torturing and killing Sunni Arabs.
Colonel Rudisill said he did not know the ethnic or religious make-up of the prisoners found Thursday, or whether the commandos running the center had been recruited from militias. The Interior Ministry employs a vast array of commando units, many shrouded in secrecy.
After the November 15 discovery of the first Iraqi prison brimful of malnourished, ill-treated prisoners, Brigadier General Karl Horst told The Los Angeles Times, “We’re going to hit every single one of them, every single one of them.” There are said to be 1,000 detention centers in Iraq. So far, two raids, two prisons filled with malnourished, ill-treated, and in the most recent case, obviously tortured prisoners. Nine hundred ninety-eight to go?
Since the discovery of that first secret prison, U.S. officials – including Donald Rumsfeld, General George W. Casey and Ambassador Zalmay Khalilzad – have made strong public statements decrying maltreatment at detention centers and declared that the United States will not stand for it.
Sort of. There was this telling exchange between Marine General Peter Pace, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and Rumsfeld at a November 29 press conference:
Pace said then that it was “absolutely the responsibility of every U.S. service member if they see inhumane treatment being conducted to intervene to stop it.”
Rumsfeld said, “I don’t think you mean they have an obligation to physically stop it; it’s to report it.”
Pace responded, “If they are physically present when inhumane treatment is taking place, sir, they have an obligation to try to stop it.”
It still doesn’t seem to have dawned on anybody in the megamedia – at least not enough to say so aloud or in print – that perhaps the people in charge of these Iraqi detention centers thought their U.S. occupiers would have no objections since America is itself running torture chambers. What’s wrong with a little fingernail-pulling when your “liberator” is water-boarding and hanging prisoners upside-down in a secret global chain of prisons that – in one of those jaw-droppers which this Administration has given us so many of over the past five years – recycles gulags left over from the USSR? Gulags about which even the chairpersons and deputy chairpersons of the Senate and House intelligence committees were not informed.
Save us your horrified hypocrisy, Ms. Rice, Mr. Rumsfeld and all you other Administration scofflaws. Abu Ghraib and Guantánamo set the standards for how the U.S. expects civilized people to behave in the post-9/11 world, and the dungeon-masters of Iraq have learned the lesson well.
[Cross-posted from The Next Hurrah].
Thanks for posting this. Highly recommended. We have to keep on top of this, push it into the public consciousness every day. Good work Meteor.
On a semi-related note: In Chile Michelle Bachelet, a socialist, and atheist who was tortured during Chile’s 1973-1990 dictatorship won the first round of yesterday’s presidential election. (see my diary if you’re interested)
Great diary but here we see the most ready Iraqi forces that are referred to in trying to get the troops out. If we go back to the source of the problem, it drives deeper the need for US troops in Iraq and the need to change those in charge of policy/decision making. It may be that commandos were allowed to pursue this behavior as part of training or learned some of these techniques in a sanctioned manner.
It looks like the more of this that comes out the harm it will do. That’s probably necessary until we get significant change in leadership both here and there.
This does help explain the LIWA-Theeb accounts that have been around.
…that this was a wink-wink, nudge-nudge kind of thing by the U.S. Or even more direct than that. Certainly, the U.S. has done that kind of thing in the past (I’m thinking about the region I know best, Central America.)
But for now that’s speculation.
The most successful outcome will be to change leadership here and in Britain, as others have mentioned, and piss everybody off by holding the private security contractors responsible for their crimes and corruption.
naw,…on second thought, never mind. It’s already too late.
SCIRI is the enemy of the United States. They are backed by IRan. The detention centers are being “discovered” for two reasons:
1). To harm SCIRI. To discredit it.
2). To make the United States look as though they are preventing torture rather than participating in it. This dulls the consciencness of those opposed to US torture. One might think, ‘ There are some good people in the military trying to stop torture”.
The answer is this is actually worse. It’s a selective “discovery” done for purely political reasons and has nothing to do with the Military or governments opposition to torture.
Furthermore someone ought to look into the hostages that are being held. There is something very phony looking about the group holding them. They were looking into abuse of prisoners by the U.S. and then they were made prisoners. This doesn’t add up.
Did you notice the name of the group claiming credit-holding the hostages changed after the initial reports? I swear it looked like the news anchors weren’t sure if that group’s name was legitimate the first time they read it, it was so over the top.
No I didn’t. What was it that happened?
See, I wonder if these hostage takersare on the payroll or….somehow ideoligically aligned with U.S. presence.
Or pehaps mangaed by Isreali black ops.
THe situatioon in Iraq is extremely perverse. Counter intelligence, black ops are common place. If torture is accepted there is no reason to doubt that these mainiac “intelligence operatives” have a very free wheel to dream up really horrible scenairos.
It’s totally out of control over there, I think.
The first reports that came out had the name as the Swords of Truth and Righteousness Brigade but then later reports changed it to an either/or of Swords of Truth or Swords of Righteousness whether it was a bad translation or someone caught the reaction of credibility doubts.
I don’t think the Nick Berg video was real so I’ve doubted everything since then.
…favorite Iraqi group. But what are you saying here? That the Badr militias that run these two detention centers AREN’T bad guys? That the U.S. is ignoring other torture chambers run by Iraqis whom the NeoImps are more comfortable with? That the whole things is a Rovian-style sham to push the theme that the U.S. must stay in Iraq? That this is just window-dressing to take the heat off the discovery of secret prisons in Europe? Was the discovery of those prisons ALSO cooked up? The permutations are endless, and your speculation about SCIRI is only one of a host of possibilities.
Of one thing we can be sure: we’re not even close to seeing the whole picture, and it may be years before we do.
Since around May 1, 2003, when Omission Accomplished was declared from the decks of the USS Abraham Lincoln, Iraq has been swarming with shifting alliances, black ops carried out by dozens of entities, sophisticated disinformation specialists and tons of unaccounted for everything: money, weapons, militias, private “security” groups like Blackwater. What’s actually going on is more impossible for on-the-ground old-timers to be sure of than in pre-World War II Rangoon. Much less distant bloggers.
If you’re saying the U.S. knew about these detention centers all along and may just now have gotten around to “finding” them because it serves the purpose of obfuscating America’s own torture chambers, then I don’t necessarily disagree. On the other hand. Undermanned American armed forces in Iraq have had some distractions on their plate. They may well have uncovered that first secret prison by accident – even though other Americans in Iraq knew about it all along.
We should no more treat the American presence in Iraq as monolithic than we should treat the Shi’a as such. Private operations outside the reach of any traditional controls plus traditional black ops units running under the veil of plausible deniability could easily be competing with each other and with American military units. Some generals are pissed off because they STILL haven’t been able to get through to the White House. If they see their role as futile and their support from Washington unhelpful, who knows what they might do?
Well, I said what I said. I thought you were agreeing with me as sarcasm in you first paragraph.
Now I don’t know.
The U.S. is going to switch sides and support secular insurgents…that’s a coming phase, I believe. Because to oppose the Badr group, a 30,000 man army trained in iran before the war and SCIRI is a natural situation.
Our own Larry Johnson is calling for a version of this now. I think it’s crazy. Just GET OUT!
But I have heard and I am sure others know and have heard a lot more than I have that the Military hates Bush.
I don'[t think there’s going to be a take over or anything any time soon, but I am surprised Bush hasn’t been gotten rid of by somebody in the government.
Anyway the “war” in Iraq has been over for years. It’s a black joke.
…I mostly reserve that for Bush and other rightists.
But the answers to all those questions I ask in the first paragraph can’t be yes. So which is it? As I said, the permutations are practically infinite.
That the whole things is a Rovian-style sham to push the theme that the U.S. must stay in Iraq? That this is just window-dressing to take the heat off the discovery of secret prisons in Europe? Was the discovery of those prisons ALSO cooked up? The permutations are endless, and your speculation about SCIRI is only one of a host of possibilities.
Rovian: He has nothing to do with it. It’s Bush and the administration using the idea of discovering these torture centers. What I am saying is they find them for whatever reason..by chance….then they use that as propaganda. Yes it is window dressing to take the heat off of American torture.
Discovery of prisons in Europe? No not cooked up. You lost me here.
Here’s an article
http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/world/13391616.htm
that perhaps can explain that the United States is putting Iran in Power in Iraq and they have been long moving to support secular insurgents. So the U.S. is fighting itself. They are fighting everybody…those they say are on their side and those who they are against but will come to support more in the future.
The idea that “we should” do this or that is absurd. It;s crazy
Now that’s really stupid shit. SO JUST GET THE FUCK OUT!
but its server is too busy at the moment.
Here’s the link, and the snippet in the e-mail news headlines I get from Al-Jazeera:
on all sides.
OK, look…
“Torture” in Abu Ghraib.
Torture in Guantanamo.
Torture in secret prisons all over the world.
Torture in prisons run by Iraqis inside of Iraq.
Torture torture torture torture torture.
But…why?
Number one, It doesn’t necessarily work very well. People will say anything under physical duress, just to get it to stop for a while.
But number two is the big one, and it is the dog that has not barked as far as I can see. At least not in any media that I have found. We have pharmacological methods to get people to talk that would make that old standby sodium pentathol (the “truth serum”) look like Aunt Grannie’s old herbal tea poultice in comparison. Bet on it. The nexus between Big Pharma and Big Brother..especially SECRET Big Brother…has been extensively covered in books, articles and on the net. The CIA/Army psychedelic experiments of the late ’50s were just the beginning. I was once given a modern painkiller by a mainstream ear, nose and throat doctor that put me into a fugue state so serious that one part of me could not tell the other part to correctly dial the phone to get a friend over to help me. And that was an ACCIDENT. (I threw the shit away once I reassembled myself and that was my last real attempt at dealing with mainstream medicine. Ever.) In that state I could no more have resisted persistent questioning than I could have flown.
Given this undoubted fact (at least as far as I am concerned it is undoubted)…then WHAT THE HELL DOES ALL OF THIS TORTURE SHIT REALLY MEAN?
And all that I can come up with is that it is a psychological continuation of the original shock and awe tactic. That and an expression of the low level of human being that is drawn to fight this war on these levels. A criminal underbelly of the armed and covert forces (Plus the semi-felons hat we now laugihngly refer to as “contractors”. Soldiers of fortune. Hired killers. The hadest and crudest of ex-soldiers. Just as it always was.) that have been attracted totthis scene by the sheer criminality of the war on all of its HIGHER levels. Higher levels that are only too happy to let loose these particularly rabid dogs of war in order to use them as…
Terrorists.
Because THAT is what this torture thing is really all about. In fact, that is what this war as it is being fought is really all about. WAS about, anyway, until it turned bad for the torturers.
The prisons, the secret “renditions” (a word Orwell would have loved), the absolutely abominable two faces of the official line. “We do not approve of this nor do we do it” followed right on its heels by “Make it legal.” Right out in plain sight. That ALONE is terrifying.
So…the aim of the torture is not to get information.
It is to terrorize.
And not just Iraqis, either.
ALL enemies of this government.
It could happen to you, me fine droogies. So cooperate. Don’t ask TOO many questions. Do not be rude to bearers of official spin. They have short tempers and long reaches. You might get answers you do not like. Answers with electrodes attached to them. Can you imagine a relatively powerless person who somehow succeeded in attracting Cheney’s serious negative attentions? It scares me just to THINK about it. To tell the truth, I am sometimes frightened to post on these blogs if I find myself disagreeing with the postings of people who I believe are allied with this sort of negative force in some way.
But what the hell…gotta do SOMETHING before they either blow us all up or terrorize us into submission.
Torture as spin.
Only in America…
Sleep tight…
AG
That’s a pretty good point. …about use of drugs to get the information.
I believe they are totruring people because that is the primary intention, it isn’t to get information. The intention is simply to be cruel. It’s very appealing to the military and of course George Bush had an early interest in doing that to frogs and who knows what else that we haven’t heard about.
Only a hill billy (Bush) an outsider, a suburban mind whose never experienced anything in the world but thier own reflection could come up with these horrific nightmare scenarios to promote on other people.
It’s not Sadaam who should be on trial. It’s Bush
It’s not Sadaam who should be on trial, it’s Bush?
Nope.
Saddam lost.
Only losers go on trial.
That’s the way it works.
You want to see Butch on the docket?
First you must make him lose.
AG
‘Pace said then that it was “absolutely the responsibility of every U.S. service member if they see inhumane treatment being conducted to intervene to stop it.”‘
Hey we showed em it was OK with Abu Ghraib, and lets not forget all those videos and pics we are currently keeping hidden. Now Pace comes out with this crap. Who is going to believe it? Maybe the military stationed at Guantanamo had better storm the jail and hold the torturers. Send the marines charging into CIA secret jails ordered to blow away any sadists. Yeah right on