If you’re like me, your opposition to the death penalty doesn’t come naturally. I think there are plenty of crimes involving torture and murder for which the appropriate penalty is death. And, while I don’t think the death penalty is an effective deterrent to would-be criminals, I do think there are cases where public unrest and calls for justice can be assuaged by using it.
This is probably easier to see in some other countries, or by going back to the settling of this country when the task of getting the population to respect law enforcement and the justice system was often a challenge. The House of Saud understands the utility of public beheadings, but it would be wrong to understand every execution in history as an act of tyranny. Often, they have been precisely what the people demanded, and for very good cause. At other times, they have helped control a population that law enforcement (the lonely sheriff, bailiff, and judge, for example) didn’t have the resources to control in any other way.
But in modern America, we don’t need to worry ourselves that law enforcement doesn’t have the resources that they need. People might get mad if a murderer is spared the axe, but they won’t storm the municipal building and kill everyone inside. To the degree that people obey the laws, they do so more from fear of arrest than to avoid a hangman’s noose.
Basically, we have the luxury to do without the death penalty if we want to do without it.
And we should want to do without it, because in a situation where we don’t need it, it has too many drawbacks. The first is that it is an instrument of tyrannical population control in almost all the other countries that still use it.
The second is that you can’t set a wrongly imprisoned person free if you’ve executed him, and we do put innocent or wrongly convicted people on Death Row.
The third is that the system of justice has consistently had racially disparate results across the board, and that includes in what kind of people wind up on Death Row.
The fourth is that it’s less expensive to keep people alive than to go through all the appeals processes needed to kill them.
The fifth is that we haven’t discovered a humane way to execute people that people can agree to use, although the same basic tactics used in hospice care would work if you ask me.
The sixth and final reason is that the combination of all the previous factors combine to make the death penalty erosive of popular confidence in the justice system rather than serving to calm people, create law and order, and give room for the system to develop and flourish.
In any case, there is no good reason not to have a moratorium on the death penalty, so good for Governor Wolf.
A society should behave in the same manner as its citizens are expected to.
Murder is a crime – period!
Then, why, when an individual commits murder, should the society condone murdering him, for the crime of murder?
And yeah, BooMan, I’m with you when you say there are plenty of people who deserve to get the death penalty.
But, I control that urge for vengeance – just as you do.
And I think society should, too.
Them’s my $0.02 worth…
In a system of perfect justice where the innocent are never convicted and the guilty are always afforded ample and competent legal defense, it would be possible to insist that no one who takes a life should be permitted to enjoy their own, even in confinement.
We will never achieve anything close to a system of perfect justice, however.
So, yeah, sometimes you have to put aside your desire for an eye for an eye because it makes everyone blind.
Yeah, came naturally for me. First political position I took (in any real sense, as we embrace and do many political things without realizing them as kids) was opposing the death penalty for the Beltway Snipers, and concluding it shouldn’t be used for anyone. And this was right in my backyard.
However, tell that to Utah, which is trying to bring back firing squads. Or several other states which want the entire execution carried out in secret. States with Republican
Of course, if we must have the death penalty for anyone, why not take Carlin’s advice?
Natural for me too. Largely because it’s just so final and extreme, not just for the innocent but for the guilty that might somehow find redemption some day, and we don’t get anything out of it but the experience of being judgmental–you’re such a bad person the rest of us can’t live in a world in which you’re breathing. Nowadays, also, I think more like anarchronarchist: it’s a really bad thing the state does to itself, worse than what it does to the criminal, making us all into one collective psychopath that says nobody has the right to kill anybody but I’m duty bound to kill this person. Worse than war.
For me it was just simple “We’re going to kill these people…to punish them for killing people?”
It made no sense. Now obviously there are better arguments, but it was just where my mind went first.
Still…this sounds appealing, especially since these capitalist fucks kill so many more people than the murderers on death row.
“Death penalty doesn’t mean anything unless you use it on people who are afraid to die. Like… the bankers who launder the drug money. The bankers, who launder, the drug money. Forget the dealers, you want to slow down that drug traffic, you got to start executing a few of these fucking bankers. White, middle class Republican bankers.”
THANKS!!!
I thought I’d seen all of his routines.
How did I miss this one?
TBH, I would rather if you kill someone it be by a more personal method of firing squad than the “bloodless, humane” lethal injection. Drive home what you’re actually doing and have to stare into their eyes as you might be the one with the real bullet to kill them.
Giving the right to kill citizens transforms a government of the people into a government over the people.
Not to mention it teaches violence as the solution to violence, yet serves only to perpetuate it. The idea that there are circumstances where someone “deserves” to die naturally only leads to more death.
The argument that we would have to believe that the state’s justice is perfect in order to agree to the death penalty is to me unanswerable. Justice is not and never will be perfect. Some might say, with good reason, “there is no justice”.
I think there is another reason as well. Maybe it’s the same reason really, formulated differently. It’s that by taking the power to kill a person as a part of “justice”, the state is in essence claiming for itself the power to determine the ultimate or final value of a person’s life. I don’t think the state can or should be in that business. That’s theocracy type thinking.
Your second point overwhelmingly outweighs the other five.
Oh, absolutely!!!
Now…lemme see…
How many people were executed in the U.S. last year?
35 that we know about. Plus some number of others that our lovely Secret Government deemed too dangerous to remain alive. Bet on it. And a negligible few hundred that were killed “by accident” by heavily armed, scared shitless
police state soldiers…errr, ahhh…police. And multiple tens of thousands who died of neglect, miseducation and a truly rotten health care system. And then we get to those killed outside of U.S. borders by U.S. military/U.S.-based paramilitary/U.S.-armed and supported foreign military. Where are we now? Quite possibly up into the millions. Hundreds of thousands for sure.You are absolutely right.
We shouldn’t kill people anymore.
Uhhhhh…so where shall we start?
Ron Paul responding to an Iraq war veteran who asked about a timetable for bringing home the troops.
Yup.
Or, of course…nope.
You can’t have it both ways. Ain’t no “maybe” about it.
Sorry, but there it is..
As above, so below.
Deal wid it.
What’s in your political wallet?
Eh?
Later…
AG
We admonish our children to not hit others, then we spank them. We say not to kill others, then we execute them.
My dad always said he was for the death penalty because that person would never kill again. But I was not swayed from my opinion that the death penalty is wrong.
When I read the news article that Utah was moving forward to approving firing squads, I felt sick at my stomach. It’s bad enough here in Ohio where the lethal injections get botched. Just don’t.
And life in prison is no picnic in Ohio, either. Gov Kasich handed the prison management over to his cronies and thru privatization, the quality and quantity of meals have fallen to the point where the providers run out of food, or supply maggoty meat.
There has to be a better way.
We no longer need to worry about executing prisoners or not in this country. There use to be a time when our Police were for Protecting and Serving the public. Unfortunately that time has passed. We now see police officers that are Judge, Jury and executioners at their discretion.
I use to tell my children years ago when in trouble go find a police officer. Now I would never give that advice for it is not safe.
You just stated my take on it, word for word.
Like many here, I once felt that the Death Penalty should be relegated to the past.
But George W Bush showed me the error of my ways, with the trial and execution of Saddam Hussein, that sometimes the leader of a country is SO evil, causing the needless death of THOUSANDS upon THOUSANDS, torturing innocents, while misdirecting and prevaricating when the world demands answers. The crimes are enormous, the guilt is clear, the punishment must be Death.
Dubya set the standard, et him be judged by it.
Some people deserve killing, but we don’t deserve to be the ones to kill them. Tolkien put it best IMO.