Indiana Governor Mike Pence is taking the brunt of the abuse for signing a bill that supposedly protects religious freedom, but there is a much bigger right-wing movement that is getting slapped in the face with the reality that Jim Crow laws are still unpopular in this country. This rearguard action will not stand, and it won’t be long before the nation looks back at the “religious freedom” laws and the voter ID laws and wonders how it was possible that a party could espouse such nonsense.
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BooMan
Martin Longman a contributing editor at the Washington Monthly. He is also the founder of Booman Tribune and Progress Pond. He has a degree in philosophy from Western Michigan University.
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I suspect you are right about the “religious freedom to discriminate” laws. Far less certain on voter ID, as many people seem to find these laws “reasonable.” If more people payed better attention to what was actually going on, they wouldn’t, but then they don’t, do they.
So if they install protections for gay/lesbians, who will be left as the subject of religious intolerance? Oh, yes, females seeking to use their rights to reproductive choices. As always, the rights of women are the first to be traded away for compromise.
Voter ID laws ARE reasonable, if your only perspective is of being comfortably middle class or suburban and you don’t bother to see all sides of the issue. That plus its about preventing voter fraud which despite being virtually non existent is still like being against evil. Of course you want to make it harder to commit vote fraud.
As it is, voter ID laws are not going to be an old shame anytime soon.
As a matter of fact, my otherwise quite liberal sister-in-law thinks that voter id is no big obstacle to voting. Of course, she also believes that abortion bans after 20 weeks is entirely reasonable given that most problems with fetuses will be known by then.
I also don’t think voter-id laws are going anyway anytime soon. We ought to adopt the GOP tactics used to severely constrain access to abortions and reproductive rights in general and apply them to eliminating barriers to voting. Make voter registration automatic, a la Oregon. Do it in enough states so that automatic registration would be a “thing” that others can’t afford to not do, for fear of being viewed as backwards and out of the mainstream. These days what the GOP is doing on many fronts is mainstream. That’s our problem.
My sister in law works in the newborn intensive care unit and has told me if its under 26 weeks they do hospice at best.
The sheer shallow mindedness of yet another R leader. Not only is it a welcome sight to see the enormous and immediate backlash of business but the crickets from the supporter side. Indiana as a state will be losing big time by Pence’s job destroyer law and will be a 2016 banner for Dems.
There are plenty of other states out there that are suppressing people in numerous ways. It is all in the messaging. This is something that Democratic party needs to work on and get the word out in each of these states.
In Red states with majority of TP/GOP running them. I wonder if the simple message of asking the people. “Are you better off then you were several years ago?”
If the Democratic Party does hold the values and principles that it’s assumed to hold (which considering most of the elected Democrats is probably not true), then it does have to get better at messaging. However:
I wonder if the simple message of asking the people. “Are you better off then you were several years ago?”
Not going to work because the rightwing believers have swallowed a version of reality that tells them they are worse off today.
Ah, yes. This is what the experts call “putting your finger on the question”. Is it possible that the emperor has no clothes?
The funny thing is, my liberal friends these days are all a-twitter about this “messaging” thing. But their idea of “messaging” is to repeat the same message that they’ve been offering for the last 40 years, only more loudly. And they write the people who have heard it all before and are through listening as “stupid”.
Yeah that would be the place to start. But what’s the liberal program to respond, if the answer is, “No and by the way, what exactly are you going to do about it?”
Yes they have and some of these people can never be reached. But these folks are a minority. There are enough people out there that can be reached with a program and a strategy to turn things around. Problem is, right now they’re being well organized by the right wing. And “progressives” don’t even have the beginning of a game on.
What you need to remember about that question is that people have different values. If you view abortion as a holocaust then it could be more important than your material well being both on its ‘ merits’ and because you value your spiritual well being most of all and you feel noble for sacrificing your economic well being for a ‘moral’ cause making you even more virtuous.
In that respect some might very well answer YES! To the question.
OT:
It’s Sunday, and my Chicago and Suburban Cook County folks…
YOU CAN VOTE TODAY!!!
For information about Chicago voting:
http://www.chicagoelections.com/en/early-voting.html
For information about Suburban Cook County voting:
http://www.cookcountyclerk.com/elections/earlyvoting/Pages/EarlyVotingLocations.aspx
to quote Casey Stengal: “Doesn’t anybody know how to play this game?”
Governor Pence went on Stepanopolous’ show this morning to do damage control. It is almost impossible to overstate how much he failed. He was asked a number of times the simple yes or no question, “Does Indiana’s law allow businesses to refuse to serve gays and lesbians?”. He refused to answer, increasingly angry with each refusal.
It’s simple: if he would have answered Yes, the state would suffer much greater boycotts from major businesses, and if he answered No the fundamentalists would LOSE A NUT. Little Georgie even quoted a fundie who said businesses in Indiana absolutely should be defended in their decisions to discriminate against homosexuals as a result of the law, and the Guv got pissed. That’s what Pence promised the fundies, clearly. He just wishes everybody would SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP about it.
Shut up and let us discriminate in peace, because Jesus? More like because Paul, amirite?
What was unusual here was that Stepanopolous kept going back to that simple yes or no question, instead of “moving on” as he and his ilk would normally do. Pence must have been stunned.
I think the mainstream media are a lagging indicator of public opinion. Stephanopoulos’ unexpected aggressiveness makes it official: Pence and the GOP are on the wrong side of history, so much so that even the media acknowledge it.
All this over wedding cakes. America has lost its mind. Personally, I want to know if the owner of some business hates me, but these laws are pretty awful.
Ever meet a bridezilla? This is just another way for America to lose its mind over wedding cakes.
It could really happen. Here’s hoping.
Legal Prejudice: The rights of imprisoned citizens to vote must be restored in all states that have revoked this democratic right. Not to mention the facilitation of imprisoned citizens who have been held before charging or arrested and in jail or charged and await trial.
Denial of the Vote to released citizens who have served their time is a clear suppression of the vote for poor and minority Americans.
Discrimination Is @ Issue Here — AND — If The “David Duke” Of Evangelicals (GOP Gov. Mike Pence/Indiana) — Can’t Discern DISCRIMINATION where It Exists PATENTLY/OPENLY – In The Recently-Passed, Utterly Stupid, Religious Restoration Law For The State Of Indiana) — THEN, Perhaps Gov. Pence Should Just Take A Page Out Of Supreme Court History – SPECIFICALLY, From Justice Potter Stewart When It Came To PORNOGRAPHY: Justice Stewart Was A Great Justice But He Was Stuck On How To Describe Pornography, And So It Was Left Up To His LAW CLERK (Alan Novak ’55, ’63 LLB) Who Said To Justice Stewart, “Mr. Justice, You Will Know It When You See It.” The Justice Agreed, And Novak Included That Remark In The Draft Of The Opinion. There You Go, Gov. PENCE, “You Will Know It When You See It.” —-> But, Of Course, You Couldn’t See Your Way Out Of A Wet, Brown Paper Bag —-> BUT, OF COURSE, The Rest Of Us Mere “Earthlings” Can & “Will Know It (Discrimination) When You (We) See It”. Arsehole GOPer —-> Your Party Is Doomed For The Scrap Heap. You’re In For Another Shellacking In November-2016! —–> But, Then, Smile, ALL IS NOT LOST —–> Jesus Still Loves You!!
You posted the wrong link. Care to edit in the correct one?
Any business serves people all day long that counter their beliefs in one form or another. If a business could choose only to do business with people who align perfectly with every belief of the owners they’d soon face bankruptcy.
The only way bad things don’t continue to stand is when good people join together to knock them over.
OT:
because, this is who they are:
These Republicans Want to Take Away Your Weekend
Moshe Z. Marvit on March 19, 2015 – 2:45PM ET
As Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker signed the so-called “right to work” bill on March 9, making Wisconsin the twenty-fifth right-to-work state in the country, labor advocates braced themselves for the stream of anti-worker bills that were almost certain to follow. Many assumed the first target would be Wisconsin’s 1930s prevailing wage laws, which require that workers on public works projects be paid the established going rate for their labor, rather than allowing contractors to try to outbid each other by lowering workers’ wages. Few, however, expected the legislative cluster bomb that is currently being referred to committee by a pair of Republicans: a bill to repeal the weekend.
Though labor often boasts that it helped codify the two-day work break–witness the popular pro-labor bumper sticker, “Unions: the folks that brought you the weekend”–a day of rest is protected by law in only a fraction of the states. According to the Society for Human Resource Management, thirteen states have laws mandating a day of rest for some or all workers. In states that mandate a day of rest only for certain categories of workers, those workers are often in jobs where fatigue could lead to increased accidents or deaths.
Now that might be about to come to an end in Wisconsin.
Currently, the law in Wisconsin requires that workers employed in a “factory or mercantile establishment” must receive “at least 24 consecutive hours of rest in every 7 consecutive days.” If an employer would like a worker to work seven days in a row for a limited period of time, then the two can jointly petition the Department of Workforce Development for a waiver. According to the office of Republican Representative Mark Born, who is introducing this bill in the State Assembly, there were 169 waivers requested in 2013 and 232 in 2014, and all of them were granted. Under the current system, the waiver requests must state the necessity for the waiver, and they are granted only for a limited period of time.
The new bill, which is being sponsored by Republican Van Wanggaard in the State Senate alongside Born in the Assembly, would add a provision to the “day of rest” law that could effectively nullify it. The bill would create an exemption that would allow employees to “voluntarily choose” to slave away for seven days in a row without at least twenty-four hours of rest.
Representative Born’s office played down the magnitude of the bill, arguing that it merely “codified into law the waiver system and made it easier for employers and employees to make work schedules.” But this new law cuts the regulatory body out of the equation, relying instead on the troubled notion that employers would allow employees to choose “voluntarily” to give up any day of rest. As Marquette University law professor Paul Secunda explained, the idea “completely ignores the power dynamic in the workplace, where workers often have a proverbial gun to the head.” Indeed, the reason Wisconsin had passed a “day of rest” law in the first place was because employers had been abusing employees by pressing them to work too many days without break. “Now this bill will force many workers to strike a bargain with the devil,” Secunda said.
I met with Democratic State Senator Chris Larson to discuss the bill. The bill does not yet have a title, so Larson jokingly refers to it as the “Abolishing the Sabbath Act.” But the bill is no joke, Larson said, and represents an alarming trend in Wisconsin politics. Senator Larson pointed to a large painting hanging on his wall of the famous progressive era politician Robert La Follette, whose legacy, he said, had long inspired him. “But right now, we’re in the regressive era of politics.”
http://m.thenation.com/article/201817-these-republicans-want-take-away-your-weekend
Paging Arthur Gilroy…
But Rand is so principled! He’ll bring a debate in the GOP primary, just watch!
Yeah, well Arthur cares about that issue as much as he does women’s autonomy over their own bodies. But he does seem to be AWOL since Rand switched his tune on military spending. Probably waiting for his fantasy version of the Rand that’s going to save this country from it’s rampant imperialism to return.
For listings of the IN legislators and other assorted homophobes and bigots, see Mokurai’s diary: Indiana Bill Signing Guest Bigots
The IN Senate vote is ugly — 40 yea and 10 nay (okay not much uglier than the 2002 IWR — but half of the Democrats voted yea on that one and the IN Senate only has 10 Democrats.)
IN House vote 63 yea and 31 nay. Five Republicans crossed over and voted nay. No Democratic crossovers in either chamber.
So the GOP owns this one all by themselves.
In addition
Absent without a really good excuse and not having committed to vote yea or nay, these six would properly be labeled as spineless twits.
Very absent are Cruz and or Paul. One of them should be standing shoulder to shoulder with Gov. Pence.
You’re looking at this all wrong. It is not about freedom of religion; it is about freedom from acountability. If religion were taken off the table, some other pretext for being exempted from the law would immediately be found. And the future in which the head-scratching occurs is at least a human lifespan away; in the nearer term, this kind of thing is going to spread like wildfire (and do comparable damage).
Its amazing that Pence pushed this piece of crap bill through when companies like Cummins Engine Co., Eli Lilly and the Indiana Chamber of Commerce all lobbied against it. It may be finally getting through that pointy little head of his how much cash its going to cost the state in real money. Several events such as the NCAA (headquarters in Indianapolis) and Gen Con (business estimated at $50 million) are speaking openly about pulling out. Angie’s List has put a major Indianapolis project on indefinite hold, the Salesforce.com CEO is livid, as is Apple CEO Tim Cook, along with San Francisco Mayor Ed Lee.
In addition to the corporate displeasure, it appears the Intertube Ministry of Mockery has also responded quite speedily.
Oh, that’s a good one. Should have seen that mockery coming.
Senator Graham will also have to worry about being turned away from some Hoosier businesses. Is it wrong to speculate? It would be irresponsible not to.
Indiana businesses strike back – #openforservice.
Of course Misunderstood Mike quickly played the Whining Victim card, standard operating procedure in the “conservative” playbook. “I don’t understand the misperception”, Jeebus, what rank tripe.
Also note the attempt to brand the response as “hostile”—the left is always angry and unreasonable, while the discriminators are the “mystified” victims of “hostility”…so predictable, so tiresome.
I’m still laughing at Pence’s explanation that the law was passed to fight “government overreach”. How do we do that? Why with government overreach of course! Gaaaaaa!