As Crimea holds an election reminiscent of Saddam Hussein’s phony plebiscites, Julia Ioffe predicts that it is all a precursor for a Russian invasion of Ukraine proper, and an annexation of its eastern half. Whether that happens or not, the Washington Post editorial board is calling for a second Cold War to contain and weaken Vladimir Putin’s regime:
After an orchestrated “referendum” on Sunday, Mr. Putin may leave the region — and Ukraine — in limbo for an extended time. Alternatively, he might move swiftly to annex the territory, breaking one of postwar Europe’s strongest taboos. He could even carry out the invasion of eastern Ukraine threatened by Russian troop maneuvers; on Saturday, Russian troops were reported to have seized a Ukrainian gas-pumping station and village outside Crimea.
Whatever his course, the United States and the European Union should quickly and forcefully bolster the Ukrainian government and assist it in carrying out economic reforms and democratic elections. But the West must also embrace the goals of punishing and, over time, weakening Mr. Putin’s regime.
The Post‘s rhetoric has already toughened:
Russia is ruled by a mafia. If the dons are left untouched, Western sanctions will have little effect.
They are willing to allow a complete deterioration of East/West relations in the interests of containment:
Western strategy must also fulfill the warning issued by German Chancellor Angela Merkel, who said the invasion would “cause massive damage to Russia, economically and politically.” That means, at a minimum, excluding Moscow from the Group of Eight and the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, which it is seeking to join. It also requires expanding sanctions from individuals to sectors — starting with the Russian banking system, which should be cut off from U.S. and European markets. Russia will respond with sanctions of its own, including against Western companies in Russia. Governments must be prepared to discount that damage, knowing that the economic cost to Russia — including from its own sanctions — will be far greater.
The most important piece of the Western response will be staying power. The policy probably won’t bring quick results, other than Russian retaliation. Mr. Putin may respond with more aggression. He may seek an early “normalization” of relations, dangling as a lure Moscow’s supposed influence over Iran and Syria or its facilitation of shipping to Afghanistan. The Obama administration should not abandon its work with Russia in these areas, but it also cannot temper its reaction to the situation in Crimea on behalf of other interests. If Mr. Putin threatens to suspend cooperation, the response should be to call his bluff.
Mr. Putin probably believes that, as after his invasion of Georgia, his relations with the United States and its allies will be “reset” — sooner rather than later. The future of Ukraine and of global security depends on proving him wrong.
It’s easy to express this degree of swagger from the comfort of your armchair, but we have troops in Afghanistan that need to be resupplied, and we have interests in Iran and Syria that can be severely undermined with potentially brutal consequences. If Putin tries to annex more of Ukraine, we may have little alternative to this hard line, but we don’t need to react precipitously.
It’s really up to Europe to decide whether or not they are willing to endure hardship on the behalf of Ukraine. We can’t take a tougher line than they are willing to adopt. It’s important to make a strong effort to dissuade Putin from further expansionary aggression, but it’s also important not to make threats that we cannot make good on. We shouldn’t take on a second Cold War lightly or without consensus.
It’s also important that violations of international law have consequences. One thing the rise of Germany after WWI should have taught us is that it’s important to stand up to tyrants early on. Strong sanctions would reveal Putin for what he is — a weak, tin-horn dictator. If we allow him to continue to portray himself as a strong man, he’ll continue to amass power and respect.
Russia may be economically weak. It might be strategically suicidal, to anyone with eyes to see, to pursue an expansionist path. The stupidity of such choices need to be obvious to everyone; most of all to the children making the decisions.
Bollocks. What were the consequences to the US for the illegal invasions of Vietnam and Iraq? For the overthrow of democratically elected governments in Chile and Iran (to name just two)?
What were the consequences of Lumumba in a CIA agent’s car trunk?
And while it might feel good being high on a horse, what was with bombing Serbia for two and a half months to allow Kosovo to secede? Seems to me that Serbia didn’t want to lose Kosovo.
So the US spends billions aiding reactionary Nazi residua to overthrow a democratically elected President on Russia’s doorstep. What does a rational mind think that Russia would do?
The list of US violations of international law is very long.
It’s my understanding that US/western efforts to break-up Yugoslavia is what initiated all the ethnic/regional wars among the Croats, Serbs, etc. US bombing of Serbia was after the other conflicts had been more or less resolved in 1995 with the Dayton Agreement. Should have told those in Kosovo what we should tell those in Ukraine — not our fight and don’t look to us for help.
Two wrongs make a right?
So you are agreeing that President Obama needs to fire Victoria Nuland and John Brennan for succeeding in changing a regime with covert operations? And you are also advocating for the immediate publication of the Senate Intelligence Committee’s report of torture by the CIA? And you are advocating the US packing George W. Bush and Dick Cheney off to the Hague for the Iraq War? So far violations of international law don’t have consequences if you are the United States of America because of the most expensive military in the world.
Putin’s power and respect come from those 2000 remaining nuclear weapons that we have not mutually built down. And pretty much that alone. Negotiating to get rid of those weapons is much more effective than tightening the NATO noose around Russia.
It is a big mistake to think at the moment that Putin is pursuing an expansionist path when it is a US Assistant Secretary of State who has been exposed as hand-picking the regime in Ukraine. It is the US neo-cons who finally need to be busted.
For Putin, Ukraine is a cash sink that he will spend just to keep the Sevastapol military bases secure.
Obama doesn’t fire the cold warriors in State and thereabouts. He doesn’t want them to fire him.
Just because the drum majorette is in front of the parade doesn’t mean that she decides where the parade goes.
To assume everything is about us and that includes assuming that Nuland and the CIA were behind the regime change in Ukraine. I don’t like Nuland and think she should be gone but I also don’t believe she arranged for the developments in Ukraine. Did she try to tip the scales to a particular successor once the situation escalated? Yes but that isn’t the same thing as starting the demonstrations that led to Yanukovych resigning in the first place. Frankly the “but but Nuland” cries from many a progressive is not addressing the real issues any more than the incessant drumbeats from Republicans that we need to put Putin in his place.
You simply don’t seem to acknowledge that both can be true – Nuland was way out of bounds AND Putin seems to be doing a land grab.
Can’t go without enemies. It’s not good for the military-industrial-intelligence complex, nor apparently for Jeff Bezos.
This bungle deserves the firing of Victoria Nuland. But the wimpy staff in the White House is determined not to clean house. Might upset a Republican. Might cause Darrell Issa to investigate Benghazi. Might cause McCain to go on Sunday talk shows and unload about Obama being a fifth column in America. Might cause Lindsey Graham to get his knickers in a twist. Might make John Boehner cry.
This conversation has turned absolutely crazy. Can Americans live in a peaceful world any more? Or have we become terminally war-crazed? So many damn missed opportunities. So many venal policy-makers.
The lackadasiacal attitude of establishment Democrats about the 2014 election, the failure to deal with the NSA and the torture report, and the looking for new crises is leading me to believe that our government has completely sold out to Wall Street and the public interest is a dead issue. The symptoms are the same as that in the death of the Roman Republic. A system that relied for its activity on a modicum of civic virtue in its office-holders faces the growing absence of any civic virtue, a major consequence of the Reagan Revolution.
In 1963 the President stood up to having a foreign policy imposed on him. We haven’t had that problem since, with a few minor hiccups.
As I keep saying, there is a reason.
What’s your authority for dismissing the plebiscite as a hoax? Way more than half the people living in the Crimea are actually Russians. And the area has been Russia’s only warm water access to the sea for nearly two hundred years. What the hell is up with you? Why are you so hot to cross Putin on something that’s none of our affair?
Just for starters, how about the fact that it’s impossible to vote “no”? Isn’t a plebiscite at least supposed to let voters choose? This is entirely aside from a rushed vote, no legal authority, no permission to campaign, possibilities of ballot stuffing like what happened in 2004, and intimidation from an occupying force.
Remember, they’re being rescued by Putin from the IMF, the EU, the international banksters, NATO, neo-Nazis, Angela Merkel, all the Three-Letter-Agencies, and the US generally
One can only hope the rest of Ukraine is so lucky.
None of that matters. Faced with evil of that magnitude, you can’t be choosy about your allies.
Secession won 93% of the vote! http://thehill.com/blogs/global-affairs/europe/200941-exit-polls-show-lopsided-results-in-crimea-ref
erendum
So, yes, it’s a hoax. (Disclaimer: I do not favor a military response of any kind, I just don’t think we should pretend this is a benign development.)
Russia has surely been ruled by a mafia since 1992, when George H.W. Bush was president of the US, and not so coincidentally when the new Federation made its previous grabs for territory to protect ethnic Russians from imaginary fascism, in South Ossetia and Abkhazia (reinforced in 2008, when George W. Bush was US president) and Trans-Dniester. What’s different now? All sorts of things, some of them quite serious, but I think from the standpoint of the Washington Post editorial board the biggest difference is their feeling of being strangely and unnaturally not at the center of the power structure not in Moscow but in Washington. Of somebody not quite suitable having in David Broder’s immortal words “come in and trashed the place.” For the rest of us their concerns shouldn’t weigh too heavily.
The meme you start out with, that Russia has been run by a mafia, is not unlike what the leader of Svoboda believes, only he calls in a “Muscovite-Jewish mafia”.
If you are trying to make a differentiation about the quality, morality or legality of the Russian ruling class and, say, the US leadership, I think you’re on thin ice.
As for WaPo, it has been an outlet for the Mighty Wurlitzer forever. (Read Deborah Davis’ Katharine the Great : Katharine Graham and Her Washington Post Empire. If nothing else the book will give you some insight into Watergate and Bob Woodward.)
I’m afraid I wasn’t clear about what point I wanted to make. Wapo as cited by Boo seemed to be saying “we” must get “tough” with Russia because it is run by a mafia. I only wanted to ask why now? Why weren’t they concerned about that in 1992 or 2008? And the answer would be that in 1992 or 2008 they had no desire to undermine the president.
During most of the 1992-2008 period the US either approved of or facilitated the Russian mafia/oligopoly. The drunken crook Yeltsin, and bff of Clinton, would have lost in 1996 if not for US campaign funding/management. GWB may not have been bff with Putin, but did the cordial thing well enough that Putin didn’t interfere with western military and oil oligarch sanctioned wars that Bush/Cheney conned at least half of Americans into supporting.
What has western corp/military/oil folks pissed off at this point is that Putin interfered with the plan to take out Assad and from there, reconquer Iran. Plus Russia isn’t behaving like a proper loser of a mega-war — begging for western crumbs — and leaving USians free to plan for the next big wealth/resource grab (aka war) in China.
Back then they didn’t call it “mafia” but “privatization” right.
“Privatization” wouldn’t have been disseminated to the Russian public as they might have smelled a rat in that. “Unleash the miracle of modern markets,” “let Russians run their own businesses and everybody will get rich,” etc. Ordinary Russians were also suffering a crisis in confidence as the USSR fell apart and blamed Gorbachev for that along with his call to reduce alcohol consumption.
Putin, the faux communist, looked pretty good as wealth, security, and health declined for ordinary Russians. Too bad he lacks that vision thing and is as mediocre at day-to-day leadership as almost all his contemporaries.
There was a great cartoon by Toles where Yeltsin is obviously troubled and is talking out things with Uncle Sam. Yeltsin says, “We’re trying to switch to capitalism but we keep breaking laws.” Sam replies, “Pretty soon you can change the laws.”
Headline change?
Bezos beats drum for Victoria Nuland’s war
Umm, they do realize that the first one lasted multiple decades? Good luck with that.
Yup.
And so is the U.S.
In fact, a good case can be made that this whole brouhaha is just a territorial dispute between two super-mafias.
Who’s got the tougher boss?
C’mon…
It’s a lame duck dealing with rebellious sub-mafias vs. a stone killer.
C’mon…
AG
So we have the neo-cons at TNR throwing around WW3 language, and the
NeoCon FishwrapWashington Post calling for a new cold war.reminds me of the time Fred Hiatt was having trouble getting the ketchup out of the bottle at a Labor Day picnic, and called for an pre-emptive strike on the Heinz factory.
Why? Because the rubes believe the US won the first one (and that made them feel really good and exceptional, and they are tired of the “little wars” that we keep losing), and it was really, really good for the MIC?
Or because we miss the days when the public didn’t much question the stupid, insane, and costly actions of the US federal government? When school children practiced “duck and cover,” “responsible” parents built bomb shelters in their backyards, and Congress and the FBI engaged in communist witch hunts for a few decades.
Those that romanticize the “Cold War” are the same idiots that welcomed “Shock and Awe.”
is it mean of me not to really give two shyts about what’s going on in the Ukraine?
Not our problem.
Not our business.
I tend to feel the same way.
Perhaps it’s just war fatigue from ten years of occupations in Afghanistan and Iraq, perhaps it’s from the fact that I admittedly have very little understanding of what’s going on in Ukraine/Crimea, perhaps it’s because I feel that this doesn’t impact the US’ interests.
I would like to see the Dems take a decidedly neutral position, save for providing humanitarian relief/aid if violence breaks out.
As long as it doesn’t provoke action by the US you can carry on. It’s the fact that Samantha Power might convince President Obama to give two shyts that is causing the worry.
Europe needs to lead. Tired of them always whining, and never willing to stand up when the time comes.
I notice nothing is mentioned about the fact that Putin’s approval rating has gone up in Russia. Remember folks he is a politician as such (unlike GOP members in USA) most politicians want to strengthen their support by constituents.
No cold war is needed past time that the USA gave up being the Military Police of the world.
I suppose it would have been unrealistic to expect the Obama admin to respond with less than the hardline rhetoric in the Ukrainian matter, and maybe I was naive to think wiser and cooler heads would prevail in the White House. Obama didn’t exactly get elected on a hardline FP platform, and famously downplayed the Russia threat card offered by the Mittster in that debate.
But this one seems like a slow-developing potential disaster, with neither side backing down, Russia pushing ahead with its plans to assert itself in the region, the Obama admin pushing Nato and key Euro allies to not let this Russian “violation of int’l law” go unanswered.
I think it was Stephen Cohen who recently evoked the Toppling Dominoes metaphor, with Crimea being just the beginning and Russia acting forcefully if the US/Nato recklessly decide to move troops to the border of Ukraine. Five times more dangerous a situation than the Cold War, he said, in the period since the Cuban missile crisis.
It was a grave mistake for our embassy and intel people to be apparently involved in rustling up revolution over there and I suspect Putin has had it with the US encroaching on his sphere of influence. It wouldn’t surprise me if Putin et al are taking names of countries going along with us, and planning for future military retaliation.
The policy of expanding Nato further eastward was a major mistake, and we now may have to pay the consequences.
Apparently? And the “rustling up” has been on-going for at least ten years according to V. Nuland who disclosed the price tag of a decade of “rustling up” at $5 billion.
The western PR trashing of Russia over the Sochi Olympics may have emboldened the anti-Russian factions in western Ukraine to seize the moment (as they’ve done a time or two in the past decade).
Foreigners don’t have agency. Without US money and our Three-Letter-Agencies, nothing would ever happen
The rollback policy has been SOP for the US since the end of WWII, especially with the absorption of Gehlen’s Org in 1945. (Read Oglesby’s “Treaty of Fort Hunt” essay. It’s free on the internet, it’s a quick read and it will explain to you a lot about what you missed in history books.) It will clearly explain why America keeps finding itself on the side of fascists all over the world.
http://atrueott.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/the-secret-treaty-of-fort-hunt.pdf
Wasn’t aware of that Oglesby piece, thx (will read rest later). Had read a lot of his assassination material of course.
Appears to be article from 1990. He had the Bormann angle down. I wonder if he lived long enough to (probably) change his mind about Hitler, Eva and Bormann dying at the end of the war in Berlin and instead arranging an escape to S. America, Argentina. There was a breakthrough in the evidence about 2009 leading to several recent books and docs promoting this theory, which I believe is more credible than the Hugh Trevor-Roper/Allies bunker story.
Certainly it’s hard to believe someone as vitally important to a post-war Reich as Bormann, as well-connected with powerful westerners, and as foresighted in planning a post-war Reich, would decide it was smart to hang around Berlin until the very last minute and risk capture or death. And I doubt, with a secure escape route and financial structure in place, that Hitler would have decided to throw in the towel.
There was a book, can’t remember the name off the top of my head, that was written in 1944, which described U-boats unloading gold at the docks in Argentina. It also went into who the Nazis would cultivate as allies in the US. Maybe it was THE NAZIS GO UNDERGROUND. Something like that.
I’ve seen a number of pieces about Hitler surviving the war, and while it wouldn’t surprise me (too many loose ends regarding his death) it is less important than the Bormann post-war organization. Their biggest allies were the American bankers who were on their side. The Dulleses, Prescott Bush. That ilk. I almost puked reading Herman Ab’s obit in the NY Times back in the 90s. It had a quote from David Rockefeller who called Ab the greatest banker of our time. Yeah, the guy who represented the Reichsbank at the meeting where they drew up the plans for Auschwitz.
First book of nonfiction I read on the topic was Grey Wolf (2011) by a couple of Brit reporters Dunstan and Williams. First half of that book goes fairly deeply into the financial, institutional and powerful personal connections outside of Germany Bohrmann cultivated early, including American ones like the head of the OSS in Europe, Allen Dulles, later to become DCI, whom the authors believe was a major player on the US side in allowing high-ranking Nazis to escape. A deal involving big $, hidden stolen art treasures, and scientific/intel information as the offering.
There is also an associated doc film and several interviews with author Williams on YT — but most MSM outlets have avoided the controversy, so not nearly as many interviews as the topic and uncovered evidence would warrant. I find his evidence credible and compelling — he certainly destroys the credibility of HT-R and his very thin book, appearing shortly after the end of WW2, which formed the basis for the fairy tale about the bunker. A lot of hand-waving and misdirection and padding, with but a few dozen pages devoted to the supposed bunker suicide.
There is also Peter Levenda’s recent book Ratline, a little more detail on the escape route, and a rather intriguing and colorful theory — controversy upon initial controversy! — about where Hitler went, for some reason, after allegedly leaving SAmer/Argentina. Maybe a little too colorful and farfetched seeming on the latter, so will rec this book purely for its Ratline info.
Back ca 2009 the History Channel (iirc) did a good doc (also on YT) on the long-asserted physical evidence of Hitler’s remains in Moscow’s secret archives, which turned out not to be as advertised.
Well, even Stalin never believed the bunker story. Ditto Ike and J Edgar and so on …
If you go here: http://spitfirelist.com/category/books/
there are a number of rare books on fascism that can be downloaded for free. One very good one is MARTIN BORMANN, NAZI IN EXILE.
I could live with ‘losing’ (we never had it, even the Ukrainians didn’t always have it) but I’d probably step up my own rhetoric if Kiev was threatened.
I’d be OK with an internationally supervised election that took place without Russian troops in the country.
If Putin was honest as Marie and others think, then instead of just vetoing UN action, he would have called for UN peacekeepers and a UN supervised plebiscite. Instead he just jammed his middle finger to the world. I’d love to see that finger broken off.
Never said that. Only that it seems as if he’s no less honest than the other players in this dispute that’s been blown up into an international crisis. With the predictable USians screaming for armed intervention against Russia, the glossing over of US money and activities that assisted the anti-Russian Ukrainians, and before US flagwaving propaganda, most USians don’t care what happens in Ukraine and couldn’t find it on a map anyway.
How does one organize an internationally supervised election under such circumstances? You think the Ukraine coup leaders would permit it? You think those in Crimea that would vote to secede and join Russia have nothing to worry about from the new Kiev government while they wait for an internationally approved election to take place?
You honestly think Putin’s Crimea referendum was less legitimate and more fraudulent than the US conducted farces in Afghanistan and Iraq? (And Russia is paying a real price for the US invasion of Afghanistan as opium production has increased significantly and is flooding into Russia.)
Again you argue that two wrongs make a right.
Serbia didn’t get to vote on Kosovo.
Essentially, it’s not two wrongs making a right. It’s not seventeen wrongs by the US doesn’t make it right for Russia. But if that’s the way the game is played you can understand why Russia did what it did. It’s not black and white.
I would guess that a vast majority of Crimeans would prefer to be part of Russia.
I would guess so too. But not 96% which means that at least 80% of non-Russians want to be Russian. It’s a Soviet-style (or Chicago-style if you prefer) election.
Get them out! They never belonged there and theit government wants us out. F**k Cheney’s pipeline! Let him hire Xe to defend it. And let Cheney supply the monthly two suitcases of cash.
What interests? We have been opposed to those countries for a generation. Why meddle there?
<u/More of the Ukraine</u>? So you concede him this slice of the sausag? He will not be appeased. Dictators with Imperial ambitions never are.