Scott Lemieux (most famously of Lawyers, Guns and Money) has an excellent piece on the Supreme Court in The New Republic. The article is equal parts a review of the Court in the Obama years and a look forward to what comes next. Both elements are well done and interesting, and there are several areas rich for discussion.
One that I’d like to talk about is the prospects for the Court avoiding the kind of poisonous polarization that has taken over Congress. I think Lemieux’s take on this is worth considering.
Could anything stop the Court from becoming as polarized as the rest of the political order? If current party polarization persists, probably not. But it’s not certain that it will. Tom Keck, a political scientist at Syracuse University and the author of an excellent recent book analyzing the Supreme Court in the context of contemporary partisan politics, told me that if the Democrats finally take control of the Court, the Court could become “ever more polarized, with Roberts, Alito, and Thomas serving as a perpetually dissenting GOP wing.” But it’s also possible that “the 2016 election marks a significant realignment of the party system, such that our current patterns of polarization get displaced. If/when this happens, internal divisions within each party (and within each party’s judicial wing) may be brought to the fore, such that voting alignments on the Court again start to fall on lines other than partisanship.”
In other words, if the Republican Party reacts to a likely Trump defeat at the polls by continuing its relentless march to the right, the polarization of Court is essentially inevitable. But if the current alignment proves unsustainable, all bets are off. My guess is that Trump will not cause a fundamental realignment, because a Republican Party that’s uncompetitive in presidential elections can still compete at state levels and in congressional elections where various structural factors favor conservatives. But this is ultimately a guess, and demographic changes will probably cause some partisan realignments down the road.
I’d like to offer two thoughts in response.
The first is that the Republicans spent most of the time in the Congressional minority between 1933 and 1994, and, as a result, they really didn’t have a lot invested in the postwar federal government edifice we built up to both wage the Cold War and to fight poverty and protect civil rights. They had so little say in the details of this architecture that they developed a permanent minority mentality. It makes it hard for them to take responsibility for funding and overseeing our federal agencies and it means that they’re actually quite comfortable (most likely, more comfortable) being in the congressional minority. They can tolerate a lack of power in Congress.
But that’s not to say that they can tolerate being shut out of the White House, too. While they were stuck having little say on federal appropriations for most of sixty years in the mid-to-late 20th Century, they also enjoyed two terms each with Eisenhower, Nixon/Ford, and Reagan in the White House. They had at least a little congressional power during Eisenhower’s presidency (the first two years) and they owned the Senate for the first six years of Reagan’s presidency. They also had a term with Poppy Bush in that time period.
The situation now is nearly reversed. They seem locked out of the White House but they’re ensconced in Congress, particularly in the House. The Democrats may occasionally seize control of one or both houses of Congress, but it’s doubtful that they can sustain majorities for any period of time.
So, really, the Republican Party (if not necessarily conservative Republicans) needs to evolve to reflect their ownership of Congress. Obviously, they don’t have to do this, but our government cannot work with an anti-Federal power Congress working with an endless stream of Democratic presidents.
The second thought I have is that a bad Trump loss does have the potential to accelerate this process. Conservatives are already losing the ability to define what conservatism means. Issues like free trade, immigration and gay rights are splintering the movement, and environmental issues have the potential to do the same. If the Republicans can’t sing from the same hymnal, they’ll lose the ability to churn out ideological judges in patently conservative molds. We can already see a lot of daylight between Roberts and Kennedy, on the one hand, and Thomas and Alito on the other.
The future is very uncertain at the moment, but I think the conservative movement is cracking up sufficiently that ten years from now, the clear divides we see on the Court will have become a lot more blurred. And that means that the Court will probably be less polarized.
“…the Republicans spent most of the time in the Congressional minority between 1933 and 1994, and, as a result, they really didn’t have a lot invested in the postwar federal government edifice we built up to both wage the Cold War and to fight poverty and protect civil rights.”
Just wanted to note that the 1964 Civil Rights Act got more support from Republicans than from Democrats, at least when figured on a percentage basis. (More than 80% of Republicans in both houses of Congress voted for the bill.) The issue is of course complicated by the fact that Democratic opposition came from Dixiecrats.
Article from The Guardian
Yes, and those Dixiecrats left the D party in droves to join the R party. And that’s when the R party began changing to what it is today.
I’ve written about this before in other places. I’ll post a Part 1 and Part 2 (because it is from 2 different parts with different wording and analysis to better communicate with conservative morons who were the intended audience).
The short response is that the CRA vote was a regional thing, not a party thing. The long response is as follows.
PART 1
Truman began the path to the Republican Southern Strategy with the desegregation of the US Army in 1948, along with Truman getting anti-lynching laws and anti-poll tax laws passed.
Afterwards there was a split in the Democratic party in the South, with the formation of the “States Rights” Dixiecrat party, with good ol’ Strom Thurmond running for President and carrying some states in the South.
Now…
There were more Democratic party votes against the Civil Rights Act. That said, it was LBJ’s baby and he knocked heads together to get it passed.
But, most importantly, the Civil Rights Act was passed by Northern politicians of both parties. In fact, if you break it down by region, a higher percentage of northern Democratic politicians voted for the Civil Rights Act than northern Republican politicians, in both the House and Senate.
Southern politicians of both parties were the opposition to the CRA, but even there, the Southern Democratic party politicians voted for it at a higher percentage than Southern Republican party politicians.
The fact that more Democrats were against it sprang directly from the fact that there were more Southern Democrats than Southern Republicans.
By party and region
Note: “Southern”, as used in this section, refers to members of Congress from the eleven states that made up the Confederate States of America in the American Civil War. “Northern” refers to members from the other 39 states, regardless of the geographic location of those states.
The original House version:
Southern Democrats: 7-87 (7-93%) NO VOTES
Southern Republicans: 0-10 (0-100%) NO VOTES
Northern Democrats: 145-9 (94-6%) YES VOTES
Northern Republicans: 138-24 (85-15%) YES VOTES
Southern House Republicans voted NO 100%, compared to Southern House Democrats at 93%.
Northern House Republicans voted YES 85%, compared to Northern House Democrats at 94%.
The Senate version:
Southern Democrats: 1-20 (5-95%) (only Ralph Yarborough of Texas voted in favor)
Southern Republicans: 0-1 (0-100%) (John Tower of Texas)
Northern Democrats: 45-1 (98-2%) (only Robert Byrd of West Virginia voted against)
Northern Republicans: 27-5 (84-16%)
Southern Senate Republicans voted NO 100%, compared to Southern Senate Democrats at 95%.
Northern Senate Republicans voted YES 84%, compared to Northern Senate Democrats at 98%.
References:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_…rty_and_region
Note very well:
The Civil Rights Act passed because Republican and Democratic politicians from the North bucked the tradition of racism and segregation as a policy. There were also substantially more Democratic politicians from the South who opposed it, because, well, there were more Southern politicians who were Democrats.
Part 2
There were more Democratic politicians who voted against the Civil Rights Act than Republicans, which was a direct artifact of the South being almost totally Democratic…right up until the Civil Rights Act ensured that the bigots would switch allegiance to the Republican party.
Real-world context: the South had been functioning under Jim Crow for a century and didn’t elect Republicans because of the Civil War.
Once you control for region and chamber of Congress, which I did, it is clear that the Democratic party voted to pass the Civil Rights Act more than the Republican party in both the North, and South.
But let’s change things just a bit and count all Republicans and all Democrats from each region as a whole, rather than controlling for chamber of Congress.
The South
Just controlling for region, there were 115 Southern Democrats (House and Senate), and a whopping 11 Southern Republicans (House and Senate).
8/115 = 0.695 = 6.95% of Southern Democrats voted for the CRA.
1/11 = 0.090 = 9% of Southern Republicans voted for the CRA…which while higher than the Southern Democrats, was still just 1 Southern Republican who voted against Jim Crow, out of 11 total Southern Republicans who were A-OK with Jim Crow.
Just controlling for region, there were 200 Northern Democrats (House and Senate), and 194 Northern Republicans (House and Senate). A much more balanced population between Democrats and Republicans than in the South, which was almost totally Democrat.
The North
190/200 = 0.95 = 95% of Northern Democrats voted for the CRA.
165/194 = 0.8505 = 85% of Northern Republicans voted for the CRA.
So, Democrats provided literally more votes total in passing the CRA, voted for the CRA at a higher percentage based on region and chamber, and only voted for the CRA at a slightly less percentage if they were from the South, although there were only 11 Southern Republicans compared to 115 Southern Democrats.
Voting for or against the CRA is much better analyzed as a regional phenomena than it is simply by party or chamber of Congress alone. And by watching how Democratic politicians from the South essentially changed party from 1964 onwards, you realize that it was a regional thing.
To some extent, the North won Civil War I in 1865 through battles. The South won Civil War II in 1876 through politics, in ending Reconstruction and enacting Jim Crow. And the North effectively won Civil War III in 1964 by passing the CRA… because Northerners of both parties told the South to sit and spin.
And the south has fought civil war IV since 1980, through the policies of states rights and their attack on everything FDR and JFK/LBJ achieved for equality for all.
This election cycle on the right is a direct result of realizing they are losing
AGAIN
and going batshyt insane from that realization.
Or, put another way, the Civil Rights Act would have passed irrespective of Republican support.
Time to bury this particular myth.
The conclusion could be avoided if everyone in the Democratic Party from HRC on down would focus on the following:
TOTAL TURNOUT:
2008 132 million
2010 90 million
2012 130 million
2014 81 million
… and use every ad and campaign appearance to remind the 49 million 2014 non-voters about the consequences of the 2010 and 2014 elections and the EXISTENCE of the 2018 midterms and 2020 census.
What are they being offered? Moar of same??
Obviously DO NOT WANT. Will the DNC learn?
So, midterm voters are super progressives who only come out if super progressive candidates are running?
None of the midterm participation dropoff stems from people who aren’t paying attention, or people who only vote for the President because they are Cult of Personality voters caught up in the media circus?
Because if the dropoff is solely the super progressives, they sure are gettin’ it and gettin’ it real, real good when they continue to let the Republican party own Congress. They may complain about the Democrats, but is the Republican party that much better that they might as well stay home and binge watch Storage Wars?
I guess I’m trying to fathom why super progressives only show up for Presidential elections, if they’re so super progressive. Especially considering we haven’t had a super progressive candidate in 30+ years.
I’ve been around and around on this point with people making remarks similar to what mino wrote. They always say there was nobody that inspired them, nobody worth voting for. I always point out that by not voting, they wind up with people like Scott Walker and a pliable GOP-controlled state legislature enacting legislation that only makes life worse for the folks who didn’t bother voting. They’re not buying my argument.
I always point out that by not voting, they wind up with people like Scott Walker and a pliable GOP-controlled state legislature enacting legislation that only makes life worse for the folks who didn’t bother voting.
Did you see the candidates that ran against Walker? Barnett and Mary Burke wouldn’t even pledge to repeal Act 10. What do the Democrats offer? I live not far from Booman. Do you know what the only commercials that have been run by McGinty, or for her? They aren’t pro-McGinty commercials so much as pointing out Pat Toomey is a misogynistic asshole. That’s all well and good but that doesn’t drive people to the polls.
Surprised they aren’t pro-fracking ads…
I live in WI. Democrats are at a disadvantage here in non-Presidential elections as in many other states. I doubt Barnett or Burke’s positions on Act 10 had much at all to do with poor turnout. The people who cared about it likely voted.
But that’s just the thing. How do you drive marginal voters to the polls? How are you offering to improve their lives? It’s part of what made Sanders popular. He was offering to improve people’s lives.
Yeah. He was offering things he could never actually deliver, because his purity has always been more important to him than accomplishing anything. Look at his record: He has done nothing except bellyache and whinge about how no one listens to him. His legislative success amounts to fuck all. Democrats in the actual government consider him a joke. A crazy uncle. Don Quixote.
Me, I look for results.
His legislative success amounts to fuck all.
Let go of your hate and anger. It doesn’t serve you very well. Sanders has accomplished a lot but it doesn’t serve what you want to believe.
wrong statements ever posted on this site (and that’s sayin’ sumthin’!):
Since I live in Wisconsin let me explain, with reference to “Scott Walker and a pliable GOP-controlled state legislature”, why I think your argument is weak. The response to you by Phil Perspective, “Barnett and Mary Burke wouldn’t even pledge to repeal Act 10. What do the Democrats offer?” is closer to the mark although it has some shortcomings too. On the other hand it’s more succinct than what follows:
Have you ever noticed, generally, when Democrats lose at the top of the ticket? The candidates(Dukakis, Kerry, Al Gore) have little or no charisma.
Maybe you need to check your prejudices? The “super” progressives DO show up. There ARE studies that prove it. We just bitch about our choices.
1980 was the last time I didn’t vote for the Democratic presidential candidate. I lived in California at the time, put in a long day’s work, and Carter had already conceded before I got home. So I ended up voting for someone to the left of Carter.
I vote in every election. Somehow Clintonites do not understand, Mino. They think it’s fine to have a warmonger as President. They think that there is no quid pro quo, or not enough quid pro quo with three billion dollars coming from the richest of the rich in the world to the Clinton family. They still deny that H. Clinton is the most disliked, untrustworthy Democratic candidate to ever run for President. They ignored what people said.
So sorry, Nicholas et al. You bought her, you own her. Breaks my heart to see the death of the Democratic Party, but it really died when the DLC took over thirty-odd years ago.
The Clintonites have been whining since the last round of the primaries. They assumed that everyone would fall back in line. Well, the good news is that there are enough Dems who will fall back in line. They’ll be scared of Trump. There will be some who look at it as a victory for feminism when it’s a victory for Wall Street. They’ll vote for Clinton. It’s hard to believe she won’t win.
But there are no coattails. There will be no big Democratic sweep, and considering the quality of candidates that the DNC et al have mustered it doesn’t much matter if a (D) or (R) gets elected.
And then more people will die. Like a well-oiled machine. Enjoy the ride.
Ah, show those prejudices, Bob!
I’m neither a Clintonite, nor do I want to live in an Empire.
Unfortunately, Bob, I live in objective observable reality.
Step outside of Portland Oregon. Try, say, Georgia, and tell me about how there’s not a dime’s worth of difference.
Until then, keep name calling, champ. You’re totally changing people’s minds by doing so. Winning hearts and minds. Totally.
Fine. Then don’t vote Democratic. Clearly, your Purity of Essence is just too precious for the mundane task of voting for people who actually might accomplish something. Such people are insufficiently pure for you, because even governing is surrender to the likes of you.
Actually governing means selling out to you, and therefore you will always be above us all.
Just stop preening. Because, frankly, you are obnoxious, and not at all helpful. The rest of us have lives to live, and not posts to make.
Please write when you are at the stage of hanging around bars proclaiming your brilliance, and disparaging those who have to live in the real world, and who understand exactly what Madison was talking about. Because you obviously don’t have a clue
For the millionth time, the falloff in vote for congress has been stable since 1948.
In fact, the gap has been relatively stable since 1848.
For the record, liberal % of the total electorate was higher in 2014 than in 2012 – so hippy punching is pretty much billshit about 2014.
Not that facts will change a single thing about this debate.
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/07/24/voter-turnout-always-drops-off-for-midterm-elections
-but-why/
Yes, the Court will be less polarized in 10 years, or even less.
That is because Clinton will appoint replacements for Scalia, Ginsberg, and more than likely Kennedy. This will ‘turn’ the Court, and Thomas will retire. That will create a non conservative majority.
Eventually Alito will get disillusioned because the Court won’t even bother taking the cases he prefers.
No more polarization.
.
I’m not holding my breath that she’ll appoint a replacement for Kennedy, but if she were to do so, that’d pretty much be the end of the Christian Right.
Kennedy is not the problem. He’s a judicial roundheels. The actual threat come from the advanced age of RBG.
So…anarchists should NOT be put in charge of the government. Ooo-kay.
We keep mistaking “movement conservatism” as something other than anarchy. They are interested in making the government go away as a positive good. I can’t imagine why anyone is surprised that they aren’t interested in governing…
Please learn something about Anarchism, both the the Libertarian and Syndicalist movements before showing your total ignorance.
They are against Federal government and sometimes State government. They LOVE County government.
According to the Posse (I had a run in with them in MN in ’88) the top elected official is the county Sheriff. No one else can order them to stand down.
Of course, they didn’t listen to the county sheriff, either when push came to shove.
Yeah. The Refuge situation proved that pretty good.
Now you’re in whacko territory. (Not you personally, just the Posse Commitatus movement.) There is zero support for the Posse Commitatus philosophy. It depends on the same magical thinking the Sovereign Citizen movement does.
As an Assistant Colorado AG put it to me once, these people think that the Framers had their fingers crossed when they wrote the Constitution.
So…anarchists should NOT be put in charge of the government. Ooo-kay.
We keep mistaking “movement conservatism” as something other than anarchy. They are interested in making the government go away as a positive good. I can’t imagine why anyone is surprised that they aren’t interested in governing…
Hmm, will say this is not the apex of historically “liberal” courts from Dems on some subjects: The Security State. Civil rights of the accused. Regulation of corporate entitlements.
Can you imagine Miranda being created in this age? Lawrence Tribe shocks me with some of his positions.
Got home after spending all afternoon out doing family stuff and am mystified by how this thread managed to become another Clinton/Democrat bashing thread.
Thanks.
Er, am confused at your interpretation.
Is the court off limits as topic?
Funny how often that turn seems to happen, isn’t it?
Seems to border on an obsession for some folks, eh?
Careful, you’ll hurt people’s feelings.
.
Did you happen to read the title of the post?
Future of Conservatism and the Supreme Court
But discussing the degree that conservatism on particular issues has been introduced through several moderate Democratic justices is not a fit subject for discussion?
I am NOT the first nor the last to notice this. Do you expect one-sided debate with everyone self-editing?
Unfortunately, almost none of the broadsides against the Democratic Party on this thread deal with the Judiciary at all. Take a look.
The SCOTUS Judges appointed by Presidents Clinton and Obama certainly aren’t lending themselves to the advancement of Federalist Society jurisprudence.
I wish instead of policing other people’s posts, the emphasis might be on trying to inform on one’s position with actual links.
Generally finds one article that supports his/her position and then copies and pastes a big chunk of it into the comment. Then gets all huffy when others don’t accept the excerpt as being relevant to the discussion, of adequate quality, and/or too one-sided, flawed, and/or limited to make the case the commentator thinks it does.
I’m more referring to the content-free sniping that seems irresistible to some. It’s policing from unearned authority.
So predictable. And the style in too many comments is indistinguishable from that employed by Rush, the GOP, and wingers. i.e “Sore Loserman.”
Like Shillery?
Hitlery?
Coronation?
The projection and cognitive dissonance in this post is amazing.
what the fuck are you even talking about?
This post is about whether the Supreme Court in the future will split along recognizable ideological lines. Remember how things got blurred when Stevens and Souter turned out not to be movement conservatives? Or when a JFK appointee was not on board with women’s rights?
It isn’t that unusual historically. What we have now is probably unusual.
“… whether the Supreme Court in the future will split along recognizable ideological lines.”
Yes, that is exactly what I was commenting on. The areas in which I believed that would not hold. We are a much more law-n-order, pro-business society now and that is certainly reflected in our ENTIRE court.
“What’s liberal and what’s conservative? Our conclusions are drawn from the Supreme Court Database, which codes decisions as liberal or conservative. Examples of liberal decisions are ones favoring criminal defendants, unions, people claiming discrimination or violations of their civil rights. Decisions striking down economic regulations and favoring prosecutors, employers and the government are said to be conservative.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/27/upshot/a-more-nuanced-breakdown-of-the-supreme-court.html?_r=0
An exhaustive ranking of ALL the present members against the past on business issues alone….
http://www.minnesotalawreview.org/articles/volume-97-lead-piece-business-fares-supreme-court/
And a discussion…
http://volokh.com/2013/05/06/business-and-the-roberts-court-revisited-again/
And this is waht the Tribe comment was about…http://www.eenews.net/stories/1060016297
Funny how that works, ain’t it?
This is so ahistorical that using it as a launching pad to project from this point now and into the future will necessarily be deeply flawed (aka erroneous).
With electoral mandates, FDR and the Democratic Congress were stymied for years on legislation by the Supreme Court. So much so that FDR squandered significant political capital in an attempt to expand the number of justices.
WWII led the GOP to abandon their anti-interventionist position and they became so enamored of war that they pushed to keep it going with the Cold War. Republicans were in the lead on red-baiting. Hence, the National Security Act of 1947 during the only session of Congress between 1933 and 1953 that was controlled by the GOP. That Congress also gave us Taft-Hartley (and they overrode Truman’s veto).
The Dulles bros set up the covert ops at both State and the CIA and that architecture remains in place to this day. Kissinger, Rumsfeld, and Cheney contributed to increasing the muscularity of USG military options. (And the first on that list is a valued advisor to one of the 2016 Presidential candidate.)
Through the Ford administration, the GOP elites retained their legacy in the following areas: AAs are legally equal, environmentalism is a public good, women should also have equal rights. Ronald, freaking, Reagan signed the CA law that legalized abortion and Nixon endorsed the ERA.
The GOP is running out of hot button social issues to get people to the ballot box and seek cover from the Supreme Court. Trump is actually doing them a favor by giving those issues short shrift and focusing an the unresolved biggie: immigration. They’ve had to keep shifting right on economic issues because 1) it’s what their mega-donors ask for and 2) the Democratic Party has appropriated Nixon/Reaganomics for themselves. Then there’s war and they are still for it.
“…the GOP elites retained their legacy in the following areas: AAs are legally equal, environmentalism is a public good, women should also have equal rights. Ronald, freaking, Reagan signed the CA law that legalized abortion and Nixon endorsed the ERA.”
They have completely dissociated themselves from those positions of liberal Republicanism. The evangelicals would not countenance it. What do they have left to promise their proles to justify the economic positions their elite want? To conceal the puppeteers? Not much, as Trump has exposed.
That’s not Marie’s point.
And she makes good points, but I just don’t see them as rebutting mine.
The liberal tendencies in the GOP were there until Reagan began to stamp them out. But not very much so in Congress. And even if you had some green Republicans here and there, as a body, they cared way more about what the EPA was doing wrong than what they should or could be doing better. And this was in large part because they never had any responsibility or accountability for how federal agencies functioned because they never got to make the decisions about how the money was spent or to chair the oversight hearings.