I’ve been listening to Mahmoud Abbas give his speech at the United Nations for almost an hour now. If he wants to win over the American people, he probably should use less vituperative language, but that’s not what he’s trying to do. It’s clear that the overwhelming majority of the planet’s people basically agree with the argument that he’s making. And the United Nations will vote accordingly. Watching our ambassador Susan Rice, I can tell that she’s very uncomfortable listening to Abbas detail the many humiliations and depredations his people have suffered. She’s uncomfortable because she knows that she will soon have to veto Palestine’s bid for full membership in the United Nations.
I don’t blame the Palestinians for taking this step. What are they gaining by waiting for something to change? I also can’t blame the president for vetoing the Palestinian’s application. But any moron can tell you that our veto will be incredibly unpopular and will endanger our national security and undermine our international relationships. The cost of letting settlement activity go unchecked is growing and growing.
You can watch the debate in the United Nations on C-SPAN3. Yoshihiko Noda, the prime minister of Japan, is speaking now.
Update [2011-9-23 23:21:51 by BooMan]: It looks like Obama pulled the frying pan out of the fire at the last moment.
Netanyahu is supposed to speak in about 15 minutes.
From what I’ve heard of the speech, it seems Abu Mazen is no longer a man who believes in the possibility of peace.
That seems to be the truth at the bottom of this. There’s no strategy from the PLO or the PA on this. They have no plan. It’s all just tactics. Successful tactics, understandable tactics, but just more bleakness for the region.
The US would do well to step aside from its self-appointed role of active mediator and peacemaker, and agree to become a mere guarantor of security for Israel and any peace accord that may one day follow. But of course, we’ll never do it. And nobody else (except France maybe? Certainly no longer Turkey or the Arabs) would step up in our place.
There is no reason for any Palestinian to believe in peace right now. The Israeli political spectrum on the question of the Palestinians runs from “Commit Genocide” to “Continue Unrelenting Oppression,” with “Push Them All into Jordan” as the sensible middle. Any perspective more humane than this is fringe. It is a travesty and a cruel irony of history.
There is no possibility of peace with the current right-wing Israeli government. I don’t know when, or if, it can be ousted. For all I know, that might mean no peace ever.
But the Israeli center learned the same lesson, I think–that there was no possibility of peace–after Barak’s offer (in 2000? 2001?) was rejected.
Leaving aside the merits or lack of merits of that offer, which has been debated endlessly and unproductively, it was more generous, farther to the left, than majority Israeli opinion. And I think that’s what pushed the entire Israeli political system a few steps right: I mean, Kadima.
So even with a left-wing Israeli government–though I like to think they’d be less offensive, less destructive, less self-destructive–I’m just not sure that peace is possible.
Are you asserting that the Palestinians rejected Israel’s offer? Or that the rest of the Israeli government rejected Barak’s offer?
Yes
This is only true in the most literal and technical of terms. In truth no Palestinian leader would have accepted the offer, and that was by design: offer them something no respectable leader would ever accept, and then blame them for impasse. It’s like Republicans blaming Harry Reid for the up-coming government shutdown. It is what Netanyahu continues to do as well, although Netanyahu was even against what was hashed out at Camp David — so he doesn’t even pretend to be in favor of a real viable plan.
And then we have Taba, which Barak rejected out of hand because he was facing reelection.
I think you’re confusing the difference between believing in peace and believing in this peace process.
Abbas has no one to negotiate with on the other side of the table. Netanyahu will never agree to an independent Palestinian state on any terms. He’s said as much repeatedly and his actions have demonstrated his resolve. Given that Palestinians will never gain independence under the current arrangement, Abbas is attempting to gain legitimacy by other means. What would you advise him to do under the circumstances.
This comment bears repeating. It is precisely by going to the UN GA that Abbas demonstrates his belief in peace. Continuing in the current process, so-called, is a vote for continued occupation and violence.
When the zionists built the walls, set up the checkpoints and killed thousands of Palestinian children because of the rockets, the zionists lost the moral case.
When the zionists boarded the Turkish boats in international waters and killed the Turkish citizens, they became international criminals.
The Land of Zionism is now an international pariah.
The moral case was lost when we created a colony of European Jews in the Middle East, displacing he indigenous population. Israel is a fundamentally immoral project.
Who is “we”? Starting in the 1910s and even earlier, Jews moved to Palestine and purchased land. No problem.
In 1949, the bandits created Israel out of the Mandate, and there was a lot of Israeli Zionist terrorism. But I am not clear who the “we” is in that.
+1
Seriously, is the “we” supposed to be the British, who were subject to bombings from the Zionists seeking, against Britain’s will, to create Israel?
The “anti-imperialist” left needs to get out of the habit of thinking that everything that happens in the world is a project of London, Paris, and Washington.
People in other countries actually have their own politics, history, and consequential actions.
And when the Zionist settlers respond to government attempts to control their building of settlements on stolen land, they extract The Price. The Price is a response of settlers where they pick a local farmer and chop down citrus, date, and olive trees.
It’s an atrocity, by Zionist Jews, against Palestinians.
From today’s NYT:
Why do we hear nothing about this? Since when do Israeli zionists get to break windows, steal stuff, chop down trees, and NO ONE holds them accountable?
If he wants to win over the American people, he probably should use less vituperative language, but that’s not what he’s trying to do.
Boo:
As you know, the problem isn’t the American people. It’s the politicians.
Well, look at the commentary on this site. It represents at least a portion of the US left, and on it there is a decidedly mixed opinion on who the villain is in the situation. It’s not like the American public has their head on straight on this subject, generally speaking.
This sucks our unwavering support of Israel has put us on the wrong side of history. I watched some of Abbas and his well deserved standing ovation from the assembly. This is an exciting time for Palestinians and they will hate us even more for the coming veto. Damn this is discouraging.
You can’t blame Obama for the veto why? Because he might lose the Zionist vote and money?
Because he would be rebuked by his own damn party and government like he was just a few months ago for merely proposing something everyone and their mother has agreed to for decades, even Netanyahu himself! And where was progressive outrage?! Not a damn where to be found! Where was Schumer and the entire NY delegation?! EVERYONE ran for cover leaving him to be called anti-Semitic and anti-Israel and blaming him for the loss in the NY9.
.
Sometimes need to step aside from one’s principles. Comfort of the Oval Office …
Inserting Israeli Dennis Ross as US peace negotiator.
"But I will not let myself be reduced to silence."There are some positive changes in US/Arab relations since Obama has taken office. These changes are something that Obama can be proud of. It will be undone here.
This stance is a stain on the US, both today and in future histories.
Who is in charge? The US or Israel? This is not a rhetorical question. If it is the US, can we find a single demonstration of this fact?
I am not conspiracy minded by nature, but I keep thinking that the Israeli government must have us by the balls somewhere, somehow. I don’t know how else to explain the consistent, embarrassing, self destructive actions of the US on behalf of Israel.
Yeah, it’s almost like there’s a cabal or something.
Or maybe, just maybe, the problem is that both major parties agree on this issue, for different (and not necessarily noble) reasons, so there’s just no political will to do otherwise? It’s like the Protocols of the Elders of Ethanol Producers. What gives with that? I’m not conspiracy minded, but …
I’ve always admired Susan Rice for her brilliance but there are always times when brilliance won’t give a person solace from the impossible tasks while the heart and soul are screaming.
She should just stand up and say, “I support you completely, and this is why, and now I’m quitting my job.”
Vetoing this is fucking ridiculous.
Yes, this is the whole thing in a nutshell. What a crock of hypocrital tripe the US has shown itself on this issue.
I can certainly blame the president for vetoing the application, if doing so will endanger our national security and international relationships.
What is the purpose of the veto other than to minimize embarassment for the Likud government?
This is the one thing I have NEVER blamed Obama for. He is one man, and even as president it’s impossible to stand against the avalanche of fanaticism, guilt, money, and bigotry that is the source of Israeli support in America.
you left out “end-times eschatology”
Included in “fanaticism.”
Agreed completely.
I don’t know… When I can read this statement from Bibi and think that Every Single Statement is a LIE, then I have hope that the tide is turning.
“The truth is that Israel wants peace. The truth is that I want peace. … We cannot achieve peace through U.N. resolutions, but only through direct negotiations between the parties. The truth is the Palestinians have refused to negotiate. … The Palestinians want a state without peace.” — Benjamin Netanyahu, the prime minister of Israel, at the United Nations
Obama has to hate what he has to do here. This is un-doing so much of what he has accomplished internationally. I wish he could come out and say that if there isn’t a peace settlement one year from today, that he will NOT veto a vote on Palestinian Statehood.
It is terribly wrong for Israel to have this much power over the United States.
That’s what I was thinking, too. The membership issue gives leverage to the US to clamp down hard on Israeli intransigence and expansionism. One can only hope that Obama chooses to take advantage of this opportunity by at least making the veto conditional on successful negotiations. Serve notice that this could be the last such veto.
To an extent it’s already undone. His ratings are in the shitter in the Arab world along with the country’s. Worse than Bush’s in some places thanks to the disappointment effect.
On the Thom Hartmann show just a little while ago, a caller asked why Obama is going to veto this application and Thom said that (basically it’s complicated) and talked about places he goes for information to try to understand it himself.
Then he mentioned that just last week, a legitimate poll was done in Israel and among Israelis, fully 65% support this measure. I just thought that was interesting. I had no idea there was so much support inside Israel for it.
I have trouble understanding any issues involving Israel though because I feel like at least half of whatever I read or hear in American media about it is bullshit.
There, that’s better.
So can anyone tell me what the Palestinians should do in Negotiation? What should they accept?
On the other hand THIS makes me more inclined to blame Obama.
The story goes on.
Another humiliation and bald “fuck you” by his enemies. Again and again and again.
Statement of Cecilie Surasky, of Jewish Voice for Peace (JVP):
Today, the President of the Palestinian Authority, Mahmoud Abbas, presented a bid for the state of Palestine, based on the 1967 borders, to be considered by the Security Council for full membership in the United Nations.
Shortly afterward, he addressed the General Assembly, where he reviewed, from the 1948 Nakba until today, the multitude of ways in which Israel has suppressed Palestinians’ rights. While the question remains if the UN statehood bid adequately addresses the larger issue of Palestinian rights, Abbas’ address importantly gave voice to the Palestinian struggle for self-determination. While there is no uniform support for this UN bid, today was undoubtedly a historic and moving day. After over 63 years struggling for global recognition, it was moving to see the countries of the world represented in the UN general assembly give President Abbas a rousing standing ovation.
Not so for Prime Minister Netanyahu, who spoke shortly after Abbas. Netanyahu responded to the Palestinian leader with diversion and doublespeak instead of honest engagement, and peace slogans couched in hostility, aggression, and denial of Palestinian claims–a continuation of the standard Israeli tactic. We know from history that this empty rhetoric has been used by Israeli government for decades and will only mean further pain and oppression for Palestinians in Gaza, the West Bank, East Jerusalem, and all over the world.
As a Jewish-American organization, we believe it is important to remain focused on our primary responsibility: having an impact on U.S. policy. As such, we will continue to speak out strongly against the U.S. using its veto power in the Security Council to reject this bid for statehood.
We know now that President Obama will not do the right thing. Speaking at the UN on Wednesday, Obama lauded the Arab Spring–but rejected the Palestinian Autumn. The president retreated from his earlier positions that demanded Israeli accountability for its military occupation, and he did not acknowledge the ongoing role of the U.S. in maintaining that imbalance through its extraordinary economic, military, and diplomatic support for Israel, even when its actions violate international law, human rights, and U.S. policy. And he didn’t acknowledge that twenty years of the “peace process” has brought only a more entrenched occupation. Instead, Obama merely said that both sides should “sit down together, to listen to each other, and to understand each other’s hopes and fears.” (1)
While this week has not been an easy one, we at JVP actually feel a redoubled assurance in the promise of our strategy to change the dynamics on display at the United Nations. We know now, more than ever, that the President or Congress will not change on their own. The array of power and money is simply too strong–for now. We know, as with the examples of the civil rights movement and the anti-apartheid movement, to name just two, that it is movements like ours that force our governments to change their policies. It was the steadfastness, the creativity, the demonstrations, the local organizing, and the BDS tactics that helped these movements and so many others for social justice eventually succeed. So we’ll let the politicians play their games, and meanwhile, our work will continue.
Onward,
Jewish Voice for Peace