It’s not surprising that Catholics don’t like Donald Trump. If you want Catholic support, it’s generally a bad idea to get in a pissing match with the Pope. But, probably more than that, the tremendous enthusiasm white nationalists and Klansmen are showing for the Trump campaign is a bit of a warning sign to Catholics. It was actually Irish immigration that first aroused the Know-Nothings back in the 19th-Century.
Trump is getting slaughtered among white Catholics and it’s going to cost him dearly in the Midwestern states he’s hoping to carry.
Are there still many truly devout “white Catholics,” Booman? Devout enough to vote against Trump? Devout enough to not use contraceptives? Devout enough to not engage in sex outside of marriage? I wonder.
I wonder if the if the anti-Trump Catholic vote isn’t all about his anti-Latino rhetoric.
The Irish so-called “Catholics” that I see no longer go to church much. Nor the Italians. Not in the big cities, anyway. All I ever see coming out of churches in Boston, Portland ME, NYC and the like are 1st + 2nd generation Latinos and various ethnicities of grandmas.
So…who answers these polls and self-identifies as “Catholic?” Is this just more PermaGov pro-HRC propaganda or is it the real deal? I hang out sometimes in a couple of mostly Irish + Italian working class so-called “Irish” bars in the Bronx, and I hear Trump written over most of the conversations that I hear and attitudfs that I observe. I hear it on the sports talk-radio stations too, especially on WFAN which has:
1- A very large, aurally identifiable working class white ethnic audience
and
2- In Mike Francesa an amazingly knowledgeable sports guy who is also about as right wing as Joe Scarborough although much subtler about it. He talks politics often, and he sounds pro-Trump to me. I don’t know how reliable this “Catholic” anti-Trump thing is really going to be.
Latino? Undoubtedly. But “Catholic?” We shall see…
AG
P.S. The linked article is from the Washington Post. WAPO is the most unashamedly pro-HRC rag in the country. That’s fitting, seeing as how it has strong CIA connections and now ex-Deputy Director of the CIA Michael Morell…supposedy “ex”-CIA but as we all know there are really very few truly “ex-” high level spooks…is endorsing HRC for president.
From WAPO’s slightly more refined fellow pro-HRC rag, The NY Times:
That’s supposed to be a recommendation? It’s as bad as Wolfowitz’s endorsement as far as I am concerned. War criminals all.
AG
“Are there devout white Catholics?,” he asks.
Who do you think has been putting Republicans over the top in our elections?
The somewhat less then devout Catholics have been the Dems core white demographic for a long time, which is why nearly every white non-Jewish Democrat in Congress is Catholic.
You can count the White Protestant Democrats in Congress with your fingers and toes.
Highly assimilated Irish Catholics and Italians will vote for conservatives even if they’re not motivated at all by social issues, but not if the conservative is a Klansman or white nationalist.
Yeah, but Booman…they’re all Biden’s age or older. Things they are a’changin’ in CatholicLand.
Watch.
AG
Yeah, they’re changing because Pope Francis is a hell of lot friendlier to the American left that Benedict or John Paul II.
The social issues aren’t getting pushed nearly as hard, so even the devout aren’t getting the old time Republican religion they way they used to.
But Booman…you have pointed out yourself that “the old time Republican religion” isn’t what Donald the huckster is selling.
He’s selling a whole new brand.
That’s the point. Predicting victory based on thinking in the old two-box system is not going to get it.
Not even close.
AG
Arthur acts in constant rhetorical support for the Trump campaign.
He thinks Trump offers the best opportunity for the voters to repudiate his PermaGov construct. He wouldn’t be the first to suffer under a Trump Adminstration, so a few broken eggs, or broken people, are acceptable to Arthur as long as his precious ego is served.
He should drop the shallow pretense and start stumping directly for Trump here. It would be refreshingly honest of him.
The only way that the PermaGov construct can possibly be “repudiated” is if and when the whole system falls apart. Both of these two candidates offer different ways of fulfilling the end of this system as it now stands. I prefer neither of them, nor do I believe that what comes after will necessarily be any better…or worse…than what is happening right now.
It’s all a crap shoot.
So it goes.
AG
P.S. “He wouldn’t be the first to suffer under a Trump Adminstration,…”
You have no idea about my position in the world, centerfielddj. I have absolutely no cushion upon which to land if Trump wins. I like it that way. It keeps the mind nimble.
You?
This is nihilistic political rhetoric. It’s entirely unconstructive. It discourages political participation, which serves the interests of the right wing.
Indeed. I read comments like that and become aware of certain likelihoods.
Knowledgeable folks like Arthur know all this and still stick to their story that HRC and Trump are equally terrible. They have a different agenda.
The New York Times a “pro-HRC” rag?
Stop it man, you’re killing me. That’s rich.
almost as good as CNN being the Clinton News Network, people have no sense of irony sometimes
Here’s another anecdotal example of how the South is almost always different than the rest of the country. One of the most vocal and committed Trump supporters that I know is a white middle aged never married college educated female who’s also a life-long Catholic. She had a front row seat when Trump stopped here for a rally last October. The other truly strong Trump supporter I know locally is an upper-class educated former nurse.
Trump support here is not confined to white working class men.His support crosses all almost segments of the Republican constituency. They’ve almost all convinced themselves that Trump has been misrepresented in the media and that Trump will be able to govern effectively. Or in their favorite term of late, he would be a “pragmatic” President.
There are few lengths to which Republican support in this area will Not go to allow themselves to put party over country. They never bring up Trump’s multiple marriages but will simultaneously disparage Clinton for being complicit in her husband’s infidelities.
. . . working class men . . . “
Sorry, too lazy to run it down, but saw data-based analysis recently (may have been linked by booman here?) that pretty well exploded that CW re: who the average Trump supporter is.
The main point that stuck with me is that they are neither the ones displaced by outsourcing jobs overseas, nor on the short end of income inequality (i.e., average incomes above the median IIRC).
But their kids (and, eventually, presumably, grandkids) are.
And the other thing was that they live in the least diverse counties, overwhelmingly white non-Hispanic with hardly any immigrants, so that they’ve hardly ever met any of the people they’re so afraid of.
momentarily, and it’s important. Thx for adding it.
hat tip – POU
The GOP’s Stealth War Against Voters
The Crosscheck program is a response to the imaginary menace of mass voter fraud.
By Greg Palast 4 days ago
When Donald Trump claimed, “the election’s going to be rigged,” he wasn’t entirely wrong. But the threat was not, as Trump warned, from Americans committing the crime of “voting many, many times.” What’s far more likely to undermine democracy in November is the culmination of a decade-long Republican effort to disenfranchise voters under the guise of battling voter fraud. The latest tool: Election officials in more than two dozen states have compiled lists of citizens whom they allege could be registered in more than one state – thus potentially able to cast multiple ballots – and eligible to be purged from the voter rolls.
The data is processed through a system called the Interstate Voter Registration Crosscheck Program, which is being promoted by a powerful Republican operative, and its lists of potential duplicate voters are kept confidential. But Rolling Stone obtained a portion of the list and the names of 1 million targeted voters. According to our analysis, the Crosscheck list disproportionately threatens solid Democratic constituencies: young, black, Hispanic and Asian-American voters – with some of the biggest possible purges underway in Ohio and North Carolina, two crucial swing states with tight Senate races.
I live part time in Sacramento, CA. This is a big RC town, and most of the old boys/girls network is run by RC people, most of whom graduated from one of the two top RC parochial high schools. They trend more conservative but not always.
I’ve often wondered, though, how the conservative RC establishment views Trump. I really don’t know. Not a clue. It’s hard to say. I know many Republican voters who vow they won’t vote for Trump, but there are others who support him to this day.
Oh and PS: the RC establishment may or may not be church-going. That doesn’t seem to matter, though, in terms of their “tribal” (no offense) identity. They still see themselves as staunch RC, even though some have broken away from the church due to the pedophile scandals.
Nonetheless, they still heavily identify as RC. I don’t see church-going as a necessary ingredient to that identity, at least not where I live.
I wonder how these guys view Trump?
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jun/29/traditionalist-catholics-pope-francis-painful-confusio
n
It’s not a question of being “devout” as Arthur said above but about group identity and the historical memory of being a persecuted minority, as with the Mormon opposition to Trump, however far that’s going to go.
It’s a good thing, too, for people to start remembering what religious freedom actually is, instead of confusing it, as conservative Catholics in the Scalia-Santorum style do, with the freedom to bully people who don’t share your beliefs.
I’ve long been astonished by the way the rightwing Catholics have taken to identifying themselves with the most intolerant and narrow-minded Protestants in the country (and by the way those same Protestants have taken up the craziest and most perverted Catholic sexual hangups as their own cause). Hopefully this unholy alliance is starting to break down. The Jesuit Pope Francis is really reviving the other, social justice side of the faith, and the Trump phenomenon is revealing how ugly conservatism is at its selfish, terrorized heart.