One thing I’ve realized is that the Democrats are not going to force an end to this war this year, and probably not next. It isn’t that the vast majority of Democrats do not want to end the war. They simply won’t. The easiest explanation for why they won’t is that they do not have the votes to end the war by passing something. The President will simply veto. The only way to end the war is to refuse to pass any money for the war. And that would mean a showdown where the Republicans blame the Democrats for defunding troops in a war zone, and then blame Democrats for every bad thing that happens as a result of our disastrous occupation of Iraq.
Make no mistake, it’s theoretically possible for the Democrats to end the war this way. But too many of them are unwilling to end the war this way. We can’t change that. The only way to end this war next year is if we can get enough Republicans to help us do it and to share the blame for whatever ensues.
And that is not bloody likely.
It should be likely. Pick any metric you want: polls, fundraising, recruitment, party identification, seats up for re-election, retirements, people under investigation or indictment…it all looks good for the Democrats. I saw a poll on issues this week that showed an electorate as progressive as any since 1964…just prior to our blowout election that brought us the Voting Rights Act and other Great Society legislation. Plus…the people HATE this war.
I wish I could make more Republicans understand that our sons and daughters are dying in the sands of Iraq to help build a permanent Democratic ruling majority…quite possibly with Hill and Bill back at the helm. I talk to progressives every day that think the Dems are going to blow it if they don’t stop this war. They’re wrong. The Dems are going to win blowout elections, unheard of blowout elections, if this war isn’t substantially settled as over by November ’08.
This is precisely why the Dems are not sufficiently motivated to end this war. Forcing an end in the only way available to force an end, is going to fracture the party and hand the Republicans the only weapon they have left in their arsenal. It’s still the right thing to do, but it won’t be done.
The obvious solution here is to make a deal with the Republicans that we will allow a caretaker government of old Washington hands to take over for the failed Bush/Cheney administration…and we will work together to end this war without recriminations…without pushing every partisan advantage. Dual impeachment is the order of the day. It’s no more radical than refusing to fund our military during a time of war.
I can only advocate. I can see that we’re going to fund this war. But we don’t have to keep the same failed leadership. If the Republicans really care about remaining a major party, they’ll listen.
unless there’s some sea change in sentiment among the republicans, they’ll never ever support impeaching both of those criminals – no more than the demorats will support cutting off the funding.
it’s a stalemate. at least at this moment.
republicans are authoritarians and follow the leader, come hell or high water, and there’s only been one exception to that for them in the last 140 years – nixon.
of course bush’s and cheney’s high crimes rival if not surpass those of nixon. but a lot of the nixon impeachment was fortuitous circumstances like having sirica as a judge who wouldn’t back down and got one of the watergate ‘plumbers’ to crack, two crack reporters for the WA post, john dean turning against the president, and eventually the ‘smoking gun’ of the actual tapes coming to light. the republican party now by comparison is a rightwing coup composed of party hacks, near neo-nazis and sycophants. and the mainstream media is decidedly more conservative if not downright reactionary – they viciously support the status quo.
how can a deal be worked out with the republican party when the ruling political and economic elites, even after 4 years of this disaster in iraq not to mention the domestic mess, still basically support bush (or at least, more correctly, they oppose impeachment) – you only have to read the MSM.
i would certainly go along with your ideas but wonder how (and if) elite consensus can be made to shift.
unless hundreds of thousands come out to protest this war and the society begins to become unmanageable (another thing definitely working against nixon) i just see this war going on until at least mid-2009.
There are definitely enough Democrats and a few libertarian Republicans in the House to get an impeachment (not conviction) investigation off the ground. Bush is so focused on his legacy right now that he will actually respond to that kick in the butt. And it may–just may–distract him from Iran.
Impeachment investigation is the only way that the information will come out to document crimes, including data mining, secret prisons, graft and corruption, so that prosecutions can occur in a year or two. It’s the only way to take back the constitution.
It’s like saying: “I’ll never lose 30 pounds (I won’t) so there’s no point in giving up that caramel cheesecake today.”
Good point about the Nixon impeachment being fortuitous. One thing that people tend to forget is that Nixon’s fate wasn’t sealed until the tapes were released, which showed irrefutably that he had lied about his involvement in Watergate. Only then did the Republicans turn on him, and a lot of that has to do with the fact that they were pissed off that he had lied to them personally. If there were no tapes, then there would have been no impeachment (or at least, no conviction).
And we all know that the Bush White House is too aware of their criminality to do something as stupid as tape their conversations, or even back up their e-mails.
In a bad situation, led by the inept Pelosi and Reid, I can venture only this theory.
Knowing that 70%+ of Americans want the Iraqi madness to end and that an alarmed minority of informed voters — not because they are in the minority, but because so many of the voters haven’t had a chance to be informed — are disturbed about the aggressive assault on the Constitution (never mind the budget) and knowing that the most dreaded thing for any politician is removal from office by the voters, I propose the following:
Progressives build a unified national slate of Congressional office holders of both parties who will be challenged in primaries and the general elections for defeat.
Published nationally, these folks will be on the “Bloody Hands, Death Merchant politician hit list.”
I am sure that some hiree running spin for Republican euphemisms can come up with something smoother.
For Blue Dog Democrats — especially against local opinion — ’nuff said.
For Republicans, bloggers and the public can have a lot of fun. Republican Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell is in trouble to my grand amusement. Idaho’s Craig? Well we all know. An open seat next Fall. Domenici? Only one more phone call to the White House and defeat.
Cindy Sheehan was booed roundly, even barred from dailyKos for having the audacity to announce she is running against sellout Pelosi. Now it’s starting to look like a good idea.
The opportunities are vast. The field of progressive gains, rich.
I did this research last night. I have to add to it before I post about it. But it should help demonstrate the obstacles we face in trying to launch or support primary runs at Bush Dogs.
I have to find the info for the rest of the Bush Dogs, there are only a few more.
Kucinich is right. Anyone who votes for funding votes for war and death. ANd the excuse that Reid and others keep throwing forward, that they don’t have 60 votes, is ridiculous. Bush can’t veto a bill that is never passed. Just don’t fund it. Bush will be relieved.
And don’t underestimate the American people. They know there is chaos now, and there will be chaos next year. Withdrawal won’t matter.
Only solution my ass! Sure, the goopers have the votes but wake the hell up Boo. What happens when a small group of true believers needs to get their position to be publically discussed yet they are continued to be stymied? They begin to harass those that are stopping their ideas to be discussed.
So, lets get with it. STOP THE GOVERNMENT!!!!!!!!!
Nothing gets passed. No name gets approved to the corrupted departments without endless hearings. Investigations are begun and they are coninued on and on and on!!! Do I have to go on? There are only 500 days left for these bastards and if the dems can’t at least PUBLICALLY drive them nuts then let them know publically that they are toast in 08! Withhold every single cent of support funds and inform the pieces of crap that unless they support the harassment they will get NOTHING!
Hows that?
Don’t tell me that there is only one solution Boo. And just one more — How about a good old MILLION PEOPLE MARCH! and how about while we are there we kinda practice the old CC- Congressional Confrontation!
BillJPA, I admire your enthusiasm, but as a participant in the marches in DC against the war back in 02 (or was it 03), marches that were described as “the biggest since vietnam” while being steadfastly ignored by the NYT and the WaPO, I can tell you with some authority that this doesn’t work. The politicians ignore it.
As for a congressional confrontation, that was tried a few weeks ago when Cindy Sheehan and co occupied John Conyers’ office.
Conyers didn’t care: in fact he had them arrested.
They don’t care. Nothing short of full-scale revolution is going to work, and that’s not happening anytime soon.
We’re stuck with the political equivalent of Toonces the Driving Cat for the near- and long-term, I’m afraid.
hey brendan- you may not agree but quaint it aint! Cindi and co! 02 and or 03? you are afraid to face up to what i’m calling for.Maybe a little history might help you. I’m talking about massive confrontation, massive marches, massive public civil disobedience. Is that Quaint?
What the hell isn’t Quaint!!!!!! More dead US troops and Iraqi citizens, Various countries around the world deciding to stop buying our debt! Iran shutting the gulf, — ya want more? More announcements of 10 thousand layoffs! Quaint?
I gotta say it Brendan– Quaint my ass. we are fighting to save the country!
continue to enable these spineless politicians. Ending the war and creating domestic programs that will actually help our people is the way to go, and that’s what people want.
Fracturing the party is a myth. Ending the war would strengthen the party.
I hear this argument all the time, but I’ve researched it and it just isn’t true. The reality is that the only thing Reid and Pelosi can really do to end this war right now is resign their leadership posts in disgust. They do not have support for defunding through refusal to fund. It would force a challenge to their leadership positions, which is hardly the definition of uniting the party.
It’s discouraging, but it sure has the ring of truth. After the last funding bill, I paid careful attention to what my Rep, Mark Udall, said, and it seemed to be a combination of two things:
(1) principle – Udall really believes that Bush would leave the soldiers in the field without supplies. He feels he can’t do that to the troops. And this makes sense to me – I do believe Bush would do this, and be proud of it.
(2) politics – these guys are still gun-shy from being blamed for Vietnam. They don’t want to pull the plug until substantially everyone believes we have lost. I hate this sort of calculation, but politicians do make political calculations – it’s in the job description.
So what’s the answer? Beats me. I feel really helpless.
It would force a challenge to their leadership positions
You know that for a fact, do you? And that they would not survive the challenge?
Just refusing to fund the war further would significantly alter the political landscape. Given how unpopular the war is, I am not sure that their party would revolt against their leadership for the sole purpose of continuing the war.
Making us think that they would be removed by their own party if they did the right thing is part of their con. House and Senate Democrats would not revolt against Pelosi and Reid if the latter stopped funding the war, because to do so would make plain to everyone that the Dems’ continuing to fund the war while claiming they want to end it has been nothing but a con.
Congress finally stopped funding the Vietnam War, and our troops didn’t end up stranded in the jungle with no supplies. There’s no reason it should be any different now.
The game is fixed. Overtly, covertly. At all levels.
listen – im so steamed that I can’t believe it. i read these posts and I want to throw up. Balls folks.BALLS!.
Even if it is fixed.
Now focus- 500 days!!! Get it?
This bastard can bring down the country if we don’t act. lets all agree that we don’t have the votes. OK. so what can we do?
DELAY, STALL! anger the shit out of them. Challenge every single move they make. Remember- we control the movement of bills thru congress. Don’t let anything they propose to get to the floor. Stall, stall. Let the neos scream bloody murder. The media will enter the fray and then our messages will get press time.
And thats just for starters.
Als- filibuster!!!!!! And don’t let anybody tell you that that can’t work. Go look it up!
Lets get with it! Make their lives a living hell. The folks have already spoken- what is it now-70-30?
The politicians are useless. There is no solution coming from them. The only solution for those who really care about the war now, is antirecruitment, drying up the cannon fodder. General strikes would put the fear of god into them, but Americans are’t organized enough for those, save for the latinos.